# Missing Soccer Team Found Alive in Cave **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [July 2, 2018, 5:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/missing-soccer-team-found-alive-in-cave/817173 "2018-07-02T17:03:54Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 7
**Author:** ![bordelond](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bordelond/32/150_2.png) [@bordelond](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bordelond)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2018, 8:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/missing-soccer-team-found-alive-in-cave/817173/121 "2018-07-06T20:14:49Z")
> [@Velocity](#): > > If they can pump in enough oxygen and scrub enough CO2, maybe they could keep the kids there indefinitely at least as far as breathing air goes, but the flooding is still the danger. What’s odd is that a few days ago (maybe July 4th) it was being reported that air was being pumped in to the soccer team. Apparently, that was never the case? I understand that in reporting on these kinds of events, information comes at a mile a minute and its hard to vet everything in the moment. Just a shame is that particular fact was never the case. ---
**Author:** ![Velocity](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/velocity/32/18006_2.png) [@Velocity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velocity)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2018, 8:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/missing-soccer-team-found-alive-in-cave/817173/122 "2018-07-06T20:19:04Z")
> [@bordelond](#): > > What’s odd is that a few days ago (maybe July 4th) it was being reported that air was being pumped in to the soccer team. Apparently, that was never the case? > > I understand that in reporting on these kinds of events, information comes at a mile a minute and its hard to vet everything in the moment. Just a shame is that particular fact was never the case. Well, I don’t know. Maybe it is, maybe it is not. ---
**Author:** ![bordelond](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bordelond/32/150_2.png) [@bordelond](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bordelond)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2018, 8:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/missing-soccer-team-found-alive-in-cave/817173/123 "2018-07-06T20:36:59Z")
[**Thailand cave rescue postponed**](https://www.theguardian.com/world/2018/jul/06/falling-oxygen-levels-in-thai-cave-add-to-risks-of-rescue-delay) > [@](#): > > Thai authorities have said that 12 boys stranded inside a cave will not be imminently rescued – less than a day before the expected arrival of monsoon rains that could seal them inside for months. > > Narongsak Osatanakorn, the governor of Chiang Rai province, said that rescuers were striving to free the boys and their 25-year-old coach, Ekapol Chanthawong, before it rained but would only do so if there was “minimum risk” to their lives. > > “If we face the heavy rain, we must bring the kids out,” he told a midnight press briefing on Friday. “But if the situation is stable [inside their chamber], we can let them stay.” ---
**Author:** ![Machine\_Elf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/82dd89/32.png) [@Machine\_Elf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Machine_Elf)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2018, 8:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/missing-soccer-team-found-alive-in-cave/817173/124 "2018-07-06T20:45:21Z")
> [@bordelond](#): > > What’s odd is that a few days ago (maybe July 4th) it was being reported that air was being pumped in to the soccer team. Apparently, that was never the case? > > I understand that in reporting on these kinds of events, information comes at a mile a minute and its hard to vet everything in the moment. Just a shame is that particular fact was never the case. I hadn’t heard either way, but, ISTM this would have been a major logistical challenge. They’re a mile in, and it’s not feasible for divers to lay a continuous mile of meaningfully-large air hose. Think of what a coil of 50’ feet of standard garden hose looks like; now imagine 100 of those, being carried and uncoiled underwater by divers who are already taking on so much risk that one of them has died on the job. Based on the maps we keep seeing, it looks like there are three or four flooded areas along the route. You could reduce your hose requirement by bringing in just enough hose to traverse each flooded section - but then you’d need a pump at the inlet of each of those hoses, driving fresh air through the hose and further up the cave. Each of those pumps would need electrical power. A battery wouldn’t last very long, at least not if they’re trying to buy days/weeks of time. So they’d need electrical cables - at which point you’re back to something like the original problem, i.e. divers trying to string thousands of feet of electrical cable. All the while hoping that the cables and hoses don’t get nicked on the rocks, and that the divers (and later, the kids) don’t get tangled in any of that. I’m not surprised that hasn’t been done. ---
**Author:** ![Melbourne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b5e925/32.png) [@Melbourne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Melbourne)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2018, 10:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/missing-soccer-team-found-alive-in-cave/817173/125 "2018-07-06T22:46:48Z")
> [@bordelond](#): > > What’s odd is that a few days ago (maybe July 4th) it was being reported that air was being pumped in to the soccer team. Apparently, that was never the case? > > I understand that in reporting on these kinds of events, information comes at a mile a minute and its hard to vet everything in the moment. Just a shame is that particular fact was never the case. I think it’s quite likely they are blowing air down to the command post. It’s hot there, they are at the bottom of a long hole, and mine/corridor/building ventilation is a normal thing. ---
**Author:** ![Melbourne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b5e925/32.png) [@Melbourne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Melbourne)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2018, 10:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/missing-soccer-team-found-alive-in-cave/817173/126 "2018-07-06T22:51:09Z")
> [@aceplace57](#): > > He’s got some good ideas. The nylon tube sounds promising. But the rains start again within a day or two. Time may have run out for any tech solution… I think there’s water running through the cave. From the boys towards the entrance. So a tube conforming to the smallest cross-section would plug the stream, and the water would back up and fill the system… ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2018, 10:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/missing-soccer-team-found-alive-in-cave/817173/127 "2018-07-06T22:59:02Z")
they don’t need air hose the entire length. they need it for long stretches of water. Put valves on such a hose at short intervals in the areas where tanks are too big. It would provide emergency air if something goes wrong as well as act as a pull rope so the kids can pull themselves through instead of trying to swim through. Line the hose with low voltage LED’s so the path is lit. it would be less disorienting to have things visible. ---
**Author:** ![thirdname](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/d07c76/32.png) [@thirdname](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/thirdname)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2018, 11:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/missing-soccer-team-found-alive-in-cave/817173/128 "2018-07-06T23:18:07Z")
If they tried Elon’s inflatable tube idea, the air pressure in the tube would have to be high enough to counteract the water pressure at the tube’s lowest point. That means it would be much higher than the ambient pressure at the higher points. We’re talking multiple atmospheres of pressure. (How deep is the water?) That would have to be a strong tube to withstand that without exploding. And it would have to be very abrasion resistant to withstand contact with the rocks and the people crawling through it. A tear could be catastrophic. Plus there’s the other problem, mentioned above, that it could back up the water flow and lead to flooding of the chamber where the boys are staying. ---
**Author:** ![Baker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/bb73d2/32.png) [@Baker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Baker)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2018, 11:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/missing-soccer-team-found-alive-in-cave/817173/129 "2018-07-06T23:42:07Z")
This whole story sound like the story of Floyd Collins. I hope it ends up better. > **[Floyd Collins](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Floyd_Collins)** > > William Floyd Collins (July 20, 1887 – c. February 13, 1925) was an American cave explorer, principally in a region of Kentucky that houses hundreds of miles of interconnected caves, today a part of Mammoth Cave National Park, the longest known cave system in the world. > In the early 20th century, in an era known as the Kentucky Cave Wars, spelunkers and property owners entered into bitter competition to exploit the bounty of caves for commercial profit from tourists, who paid to see the caves.... ---
**Author:** ![aceplace57](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aceplace57/32/3500_2.png) [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2018, 12:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/missing-soccer-team-found-alive-in-cave/817173/130 "2018-07-07T00:15:08Z")
Pumps will buy more time for a rescue. Perhaps counter the effects of this new rain? A short term solution but there’s not a lot of options. Elon Musk (@elonmusk) Tweeted: @MabzMagz Boring Co has advanced ground penetrating radar & is pretty good at digging holes. Don’t know if pump rate is limited by electric power or pumps are too smal. If so, could dropship fully charged Powerpacks and pumps. [https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1014754638950645760?s=17](https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1014754638950645760?s=17) ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2018, 12:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/missing-soccer-team-found-alive-in-cave/817173/131 "2018-07-07T00:25:09Z")
In 2009 a young man died when he got stuck in Nutty Putty cave. In my younger years I probably made a dozen trips into Nutty Putty. It was rather tragic for at least one reason the Floyd Collins story is, and potentially (but hopefully not) this story: Help was right there, so tantalizingly close. They had search and rescue crews that were in regular communication with him and actively working to free him. ---
**Author:** ![Darren\_Garrison](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/darren_garrison/32/92_2.png) [@Darren\_Garrison](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darren_Garrison)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2018, 3:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/missing-soccer-team-found-alive-in-cave/817173/132 "2018-07-07T03:07:14Z")
NYT article [here](https://mobile.nytimes.com/2018/07/06/world/asia/thai-cave-rescue-divers.html). It is getting increasingly hard to believe that this is survivable. ---
**Author:** ![nearwildheaven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/90db22/32.png) [@nearwildheaven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nearwildheaven)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2018, 3:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/missing-soccer-team-found-alive-in-cave/817173/133 "2018-07-07T03:20:52Z")
> [@aceplace57](#): > > I worry about the professional divers safety. > > I remember my lifeguard training. We were taught to avoid directly approaching a drowning victim. If possible, reach out with a pole or any suitable object. Even a beach towel gives you some distance. > > If you do have to approach, be prepared to fight them off. A panicked swimmer is very dangerous. They’ll try to climb on top of you to reach the surface. A lifeguard can easily drown in these situations. I got certified but decided against taking a job. > > Some of these kids are going panic during the rescue. The conditions are so claustrophobic that almost anybody will have troble staying calm. > > The professional divers will have their handsful escorting these kids out. I wonder if there would be any way to sedate the kids (or, for that matter, the coach) if they get panicky? People can certainly be calmed down and still able to follow instructions. ---
**Author:** ![nearwildheaven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/90db22/32.png) [@nearwildheaven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nearwildheaven)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2018, 3:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/missing-soccer-team-found-alive-in-cave/817173/134 "2018-07-07T03:22:38Z")
> [@thirdname](#): > > If they tried Elon’s inflatable tube idea, the air pressure in the tube would have to be high enough to counteract the water pressure at the tube’s lowest point. That means it would be much higher than the ambient pressure at the higher points. We’re talking multiple atmospheres of pressure. (How deep is the water?) That would have to be a strong tube to withstand that without exploding. And it would have to be very abrasion resistant to withstand contact with the rocks and the people crawling through it. A tear could be catastrophic. > > Plus there’s the other problem, mentioned above, that it could back up the water flow and lead to flooding of the chamber where the boys are staying. And then they would have to have some way to decompress at the end of the rescue. ---
**Author:** ![Martin\_Hyde](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/47e85d/32.png) [@Martin\_Hyde](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Martin_Hyde)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2018, 4:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/missing-soccer-team-found-alive-in-cave/817173/135 "2018-07-07T04:27:37Z")
> [@Darren\_Garrison](#): > > NYT article [here](https://mobile.nytimes.com/2018/07/06/world/asia/thai-cave-rescue-divers.html). It is getting increasingly hard to believe that this is survivable. Yeah it sounds like this could get really grim. If the rains come too hard it seems like there’s a decent change the entire system will flood–regardless of how much they pump, which would obviously mean drowning. They’ve left 5 Thai Navy SEALs with the 13 stranded persons, and they have scuba gear, so if that seems imminent I’m certain they’ll execute the plan to try to dive them out, but for all the aforementioned reasons getting them out by diving is **extremely** perilous, and it’s hard to imagine some number of the 13 stranded don’t die in the extraction. Meanwhile it sounds like there may be long term air quality issues, news outlets are reporting they got the air quality back where it needs to be again today, but if the monsoons come the water level/current will almost certainly make it almost impossible to maintain air quality for long (assuming they don’t outright drown them out.) ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2018, 5:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/missing-soccer-team-found-alive-in-cave/817173/136 "2018-07-07T05:33:06Z")
> [@Martin\_Hyde](#): > > … news outlets are reporting they got the air quality back where it needs to be again today, but if the monsoons come the water level/current will almost certainly make it almost impossible to maintain air quality for long (assuming they don’t outright drown them out.) I’m curious which news reports you read. [This CNN article](https://www.cnn.com/2018/07/06/asia/thai-cave-rescue-intl/index.html) has almost nothing but bad news, including these tidbits: > [@](#): > > On Friday, Thai Navy SEAL chief Rear Adm. Aphakorn Yoo-kongkaew said oxygen levels in the cave had dropped to 15%, a level that one Thai medic said posed a serious risk of hypoxia, the same condition that causes altitude sickness. > > Gov. Osottanakorn said “air is a major issue,” but added that UK experts had confirmed the conditions in the chamber where the children are located were “all right.” > > “The kids are still are able to walk around, play around comfortably,” he said. “If (there is) heavy rain and the situation is not good, we will try.” > [@](#): > > The US official said a plan to route oxygen into the chamber where the boys are was also called off due to challenge of routing cable through cave system. ---
**Author:** ![Ale](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/f19dbf/32.png) [@Ale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ale)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2018, 6:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/missing-soccer-team-found-alive-in-cave/817173/137 "2018-07-07T06:26:01Z")
I went to the thread and thought to clarify some things, first anyone who matters (the kids, their families, authorities) is not blaming or wanting to hold the coach accountable for the situation. There is a sign outside the cave saying it’s closed from July to November, they went in as they had done before (the parents new they were going there) and were cut off by unexpected heavy rains. The coach is an orphan, IIRC raised in a temple and very dedicated to the kids. He helped them survive in the cave by rationing the use of lights, food (they had sone, he took none), instructing the children to only drink the clean water dripping from the roof and saving energy by laying still and calm. Simeine mentioned hearing a report saying he was going to get charged with something, it’s false I saw it the headline was “Coach faces charges by the police” or some such, what actually transpired was a “journalist” asked a police spokesman that some people online were calling for the coach to be charged, was the police going to press charges? The answer was no and any actions would have to be considered later on. For what is worth any new coming from Thailand is usually incomplete, inaccurate or outright false. On one hand the Thai language is notoriously vague and prone to misunderstanding when context is removed, on the other hand I have the feeling reporters covering the area are very versed in pushing sensationalist narratives. So news should not be taken at face value, for example most, if not all the kids can swim, contrary to the reports. They are about 5km in, IIRC it’s 1.7km to the next large dry space with a combination of completely, partially flooded and dry passages. The maximum water depth is 5 meters not 30. The diver who died was moving three air cylinders (plus his own gear), so while still true conditions are extremelly difficult for a possible evacuation it’s not the same situation, the children wouldn’t be lugging heavy gear and would be escorted by two navy SEALs following guide ropes. ---
**Author:** ![clairobscur](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/839c29/32.png) [@clairobscur](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/clairobscur)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2018, 6:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/missing-soccer-team-found-alive-in-cave/817173/138 "2018-07-07T06:51:20Z")
> [@Martin\_Hyde](#): > > Meanwhile it sounds like there may be long term air quality issues, news outlets are reporting they got the air quality back where it needs to be again today, I was precisely wondering how they could expect the kids to survive for months if the oxygen level had dropped by 25% in less than 15 days. How is the air quality improving? If the system was plugged by water on both sides, there shouldn’t be any fresh coming in, right? ---
**Author:** ![aceplace57](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aceplace57/32/3500_2.png) [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2018, 7:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/missing-soccer-team-found-alive-in-cave/817173/139 "2018-07-07T07:32:04Z")
> [@nearwildheaven](#): > > I wonder if there would be any way to sedate the kids (or, for that matter, the coach) if they get panicky? People can certainly be calmed down and still able to follow instructions. I thought of sedation too. Build a buoyant vessel big enough to hold one kid. Include an oxygen supply. Make it water tight. Push it through the water, just like they do with oxygen tanks. The divers are positioning these big oxygen tanks in the cave. Something a little bigger would hold a skinny kid. > **[Rescue postponed for soccer kids trapped in cave](https://nypost.com/2018/07/06/rescue-postponed-for-soccer-kids-trapped-in-cave/amp/)** > > The Thai youth soccer team that has been trapped in a flooded cave for two weeks will not be evacuated Friday, officials said — despite plummeting oxygen levels and monsoon rains expected to hit so… Just an idea my coworkers were tossing around yesterday. I’m sure the experts would quickly shoot it down. ---
**Author:** ![Velocity](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/velocity/32/18006_2.png) [@Velocity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velocity)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2018, 7:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/missing-soccer-team-found-alive-in-cave/817173/140 "2018-07-07T07:59:23Z")
> [@aceplace57](#): > > I thought of sedation too. Build a buoyant vessel big enough to hold one kid. Include an oxygen supply. Make it water tight. > > Push it through the water, just like they do with oxygen tanks. > > The divers are positioning these big oxygen tanks in the cave. Something a little bigger would hold a skinny kid. > [Rescue postponed for soccer kids trapped in Thailand cave](https://www.google.com/amp/s/nypost.com/2018/07/06/rescue-postponed-for-soccer-kids-trapped-in-cave/amp/) > > Just an idea my coworkers were tossing around yesterday. > > I’m sure the experts would quickly shoot it down. I don’t think there is enough time to manufacture something that isn’t available off the shelf in time for something of this sort. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/missing-soccer-team-found-alive-in-cave/817173.md?page=6) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/missing-soccer-team-found-alive-in-cave/817173.md?page=8)