# Mission Accomplished, my Rosy Red Ass **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [December 14, 2006, 4:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mission-accomplished-my-rosy-red-ass/384076 "2006-12-14T04:23:02Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 7
**Author:** ![Squink](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5e925/32.png) [@Squink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Squink)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2006, 12:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mission-accomplished-my-rosy-red-ass/384076/121 "2006-12-16T00:42:51Z")
[QUOTE=wring] won’t happen. [/QUOTE] Could, if we get 30,000 more troops sent over then repeat [Beirut barracks bombing](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1983_Beirut_barracks_bombing) style fuckup in Green zone. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2006, 1:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mission-accomplished-my-rosy-red-ass/384076/122 "2006-12-16T01:27:59Z")
Maybe. A couple three months ago, said it couldn’t happen, but I’m upgrading from impossible to improbable. I’ve got no real metrics for this, but I have the sense of a quantum change in public mood that can be captured in a word: impatience. We of the Loyal Opposition have, of neccesity, developed a hunkering patience that borders on defeatism, Eyore is the Dem donkey. We are used to waiting, entirely accustomed to being blocked at the door, bad shit happens in the instant, good things take forever. Not us so much as those of us who have been dragged over the cactus to the truth, grudgingly, after a thousand rear-guard actions. They were duped, and they know it, and they are deep-dish pissed off. Not us who were always against this catastrophe, but those recently converted from error. They are impatient, they chafe with the memory of being so totally wrong, they want it over and forgotten, that they may recover their faith in their own judgement. These are the people who make up the continuing drop in GW’s approval: some of us never approved, so all of the others must have changed their minds, must have believed differently at some point. I think this impatience and rancor changes the equation. (Well, duh, Sherlock…) I think it makes the impossible merely unlikely. Perhaps more to the point, it makes the _threat_ of impeachment (or _seppuku_, the Decider should have a choice…) more plausible, more of an implicit pressure to change. As the old punch line goes, First, you have to get their attention. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2006, 1:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mission-accomplished-my-rosy-red-ass/384076/123 "2006-12-16T01:41:55Z")
[QUOTE=Squink] Nope, the republicans failed to move on 9 of the 11 annual appropriations bills this year. The continuing resolution they passed only funds government through [Feb. 15, 2007](http://www.indiancountry.com/content.cfm?id=1096414192). Then there’s the 100 billion or so Bush is expected to ask for to fund TWAT _beyond_ what’s budgeted. I expect that’ll cause trouble if he continues to be a stupid-head about Iraq. [/QUOTE] Hmm. I guess I was wrong. So the question is, would the Democratic Congress dare to not fund troops that Bush sends over there? Or, if they beat him to the punch, will he try and blame them for “the escalating violence” and having hamstrung him from doing something about it? But impeachment? It’s too late for that. ---
**Author:** ![Squink](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5e925/32.png) [@Squink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Squink)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2006, 2:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mission-accomplished-my-rosy-red-ass/384076/124 "2006-12-16T02:29:16Z")
[QUOTE=John Mace] So the question is, would the Democratic Congress dare to not fund troops that Bush sends over there? [/QUOTE] Republican support for war is under 50% by last poll. If things continue to unravel, there’ll come a point where GOP congressmen have to act in a _bipartisan_ quashing of the president, if only to save their party from destruction at the ballot box. Just today the administration [preemptively rejected negotiations with Iran and Syria](http://today.reuters.co.uk/news/articlenews.aspx?type=worldNews&storyID=2006-12-15T225841Z_01_N15410264_RTRUKOC_0_UK-IRAQ-USA-RICE.xml&WTmodLoc=HP-C3-World-5), _and_ took what [looks to be the first steps in a ‘surge’ strategy](http://www.iht.com/articles/ap/2006/12/16/america/NA_GEN_US_Iraq.php), without Bush giving us his little speech, or AFAICT consulting congress. This has got to be pissing off a lot of GOP congresscritters who _do_ want to be re-elected come 2008. ---
**Author:** ![Frank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Frank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frank)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2006, 2:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mission-accomplished-my-rosy-red-ass/384076/125 "2006-12-16T02:58:35Z")
[QUOTE=John Mace] So the question is, would the Democratic Congress dare to not fund troops that Bush sends over there? [/QUOTE] I don’t see this as a possibility. That’s an easy political play for 08 for the Dems, though. Those who dare to charge flip-flopping can easily be ground into a small patch of slime on the floor. ---
**Author:** ![Frostillicus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/e9bcb4/32.png) [@Frostillicus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frostillicus)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2006, 3:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mission-accomplished-my-rosy-red-ass/384076/126 "2006-12-16T03:02:12Z")
[QUOTE=jjimm] [Get yer roll of shame](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=170380) right here. Wonder how many of the apologists in that thread are now ready to apologise? [/QUOTE] This quote by **Liberal** was typical of the pro-war argument made at the time. How can one reason with such obtuse thinking? Originally quoted by **Liberal** : > [@](#): > > Do you wish Saddam were your president? ---
**Author:** ![Sevastopol](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/cdc98d/32.png) [@Sevastopol](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sevastopol)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2006, 4:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mission-accomplished-my-rosy-red-ass/384076/127 "2006-12-16T04:38:27Z")
Unfortunately the only thing that has turned public opinion has been the death of US troops. Not the torture and death of innocents, not the lies, not the broken faith and poor predictions. Well, at least the invasion has been a mirror to the US, showing it what it is. The character of its military and civil poplulation is plain to see. That’s a mission of sorts. ---
**Author:** ![Sevastopol](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/cdc98d/32.png) [@Sevastopol](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sevastopol)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2006, 4:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mission-accomplished-my-rosy-red-ass/384076/128 "2006-12-16T04:42:03Z")
[QUOTE=Frostillicus] This quote by **Liberal** was typical of the pro-war argument made at the time. How can one reason with such obtuse thinking? … [/QUOTE] Like most conservatives, the supremacy of evidence-based reasoning drove him away from the board. ---
**Author:** ![wring](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/838e76/32.png) [@wring](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wring)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2006, 5:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mission-accomplished-my-rosy-red-ass/384076/129 "2006-12-16T05:11:26Z")
in rereading that thread, I was much nicer than I should have been. fuckwits. ---
**Author:** ![Zoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/a4c791/32.png) [@Zoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zoe)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2006, 7:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mission-accomplished-my-rosy-red-ass/384076/130 "2006-12-16T07:22:26Z")
I’ve posted part of this quotation from Bush before, but probably not all of it. It’s a real jewel. It from [the first Presidential debate](http://www.debates.org/pages/trans2000a.html) between Bush and Gore, October 3, 2000: > [@](#): > > **MODERATOR JIM LEHRER** : New question. How would you go about as president deciding when it was in the national interest to use U.S. force, generally? > [@](#): > > **GEORGE W. BUSH** : Well, if it’s in our vital national interest, and that means whether our territory is threatened or people could be harmed, whether or not the alliances are – our defense alliances are threatened, whether or not our friends in the Middle East are threatened. That would be a time to seriously consider the use of force. Secondly, whether or not the mission was clear. Whether or not it was a clear understanding as to what the mission would be. Thirdly, whether or not we were prepared and trained to win. Whether or not our forces were of high morale and high standing and well-equipped. And finally, whether or not there was an exit strategy. I would take the use of force very seriously. I would be guarded in my approach. I don’t think we can be all things to all people in the world. I think we’ve got to be very careful when we commit our troops. The vice president and I have a disagreement about the use of troops. He believes in nation building. I would be very careful about using our troops as nation builders. I believe the role of the military is to fight and win war and therefore prevent war from happening in the first place. So I would take my responsibility seriously. And it starts with making sure we rebuild our military power. Morale in today’s military is too low. We’re having trouble meeting recruiting goals. We met the goals this year, but in the previous years we have not met recruiting goals. Some of our troops are not well-equipped. I believe we’re overextended in too many places. And therefore I want to rebuild the military power. It starts with a billion dollar pay raise for the men and women who wear the uniform. A billion dollars more than the president recently signed into law. It’s to make sure our troops are well-housed and well-equipped. Bonus plans to keep some of our high-skilled folks in the services and a commander in chief that sets the mission to fight and win war and prevent war from happening in the first place. (underscoring added for emphasis) During the next presidential debates, perhaps we should discuss whether or not what was said makes logical sense. Is our system so completely bogged down that we _have_ to tolerate two more years of a mad man? Can’t Congress and SCOTUS do _something_? Who will stand up to him? One rumor on MSNBC has it that Bush is floating the idea of additional troops _knowing_ that the Joint Chiefs will not approve of the idea and that Congress will not support it. That way he will have the “out” of being able to say, “If you had only done it my way, we would have secured victory…” ---
**Author:** ![EddyTeddyFreddy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eddyteddyfreddy/32/18796_2.png) [@EddyTeddyFreddy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EddyTeddyFreddy)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2006, 8:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mission-accomplished-my-rosy-red-ass/384076/131 "2006-12-16T08:15:12Z")
[QUOTE=Zoe] One rumor on MSNBC has it that Bush is floating the idea of additional troops _knowing_ that the Joint Chiefs will not approve of the idea and that Congress will not support it. That way he will have the “out” of being able to say, “If you had only done it my way, we would have secured victory…” [/QUOTE] Well, hey, you don’t seriously expect him ever to admit he was wrong, do you? God forbid! No failure can be laid at his door. He doesn’t make mistakes and that’s that. ---
**Author:** ![betenoir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/258eb7/32.png) [@betenoir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/betenoir)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2006, 8:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mission-accomplished-my-rosy-red-ass/384076/132 "2006-12-16T08:44:59Z")
You know I read somewhere that the only creature completly incapable of learning from experience was the fly. Apparently there’s another one. ---
**Author:** ![Rigamarole](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/77aa72/32.png) [@Rigamarole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rigamarole)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2006, 9:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mission-accomplished-my-rosy-red-ass/384076/133 "2006-12-16T09:36:33Z")
You have a rosy red ass? Are you a macaque? ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2006, 3:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mission-accomplished-my-rosy-red-ass/384076/134 "2006-12-16T15:58:35Z")
My favorite from that thread was > [@Weirddave](#): > > Assume for a minute that Iraq has stockpiles of WMD ( Which I DO believe), that Saddam is killed fairly quickly, that civilian casualties are moderate or light, that the Iraqi people are freed from the reign of terror of a brutal dictator. If these things were true, would the war be justified? How would you like it if Hitler killed you? ---
**Author:** ![RedFury](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ec9cab/32.png) [@RedFury](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RedFury)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2006, 9:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mission-accomplished-my-rosy-red-ass/384076/135 "2006-12-16T21:19:48Z")
[**Take This War and Shove It**](http://www.antiwar.com/orig/jacobs.php?articleid=10176) ---
**Author:** ![RedFury](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ec9cab/32.png) [@RedFury](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RedFury)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2006, 9:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mission-accomplished-my-rosy-red-ass/384076/136 "2006-12-16T21:28:15Z")
[QUOTE=ElvisL1ves] \*\*My favorite from that thread was \*\* [QUOTE=Weirddave] Assume for a minute that Iraq has stockpiles of WMD ( Which I DO believe), that Saddam is killed fairly quickly, that civilian casualties are moderate or light, that the Iraqi people are freed from the reign of terror of a brutal dictator. If these things were true, would the war be justified? [/quote] **How would you like it if Hitler killed you?** [/QUOTE] Maybe **Assholedave** should read the following article: [**Britain never thought Saddam was threat - diplomat**](http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article15921.htm) > [@](#): > > The British government never believed Saddam Hussein posed a threat to British interests and warned the US that toppling him would lead to “chaos”, according to a Foreign Office diplomat closely involved in negotiations in the run-up to the invasion of Iraq. > > Damning repudiation of the government’s public claims in the run-up to the war is contained in secret evidence to Lord Butler’s committee on the abuse of intelligence over Iraq by Carne Ross, a diplomat at Britain’s UN mission in New York. > > His evidence, in which he says the government privately assessed that Iraq possessed no significant quantity of weapons of mass destruction, has been published on the Commons foreign affairs committee website. Mr Ross gave evidence to the group last month but some MPs had been reluctant to have it published. > > Mr Ross told Lord Butler he read UK and US human and signals intelligence on Iraq every working day during the four years he spent in New York up to 2002, and spoke at length to UN weapons inspectors. > > “**At no time did [the government] assess that Iraq’s WMD (or any other capability) posed a threat to the UK,**” he told the Butler committee. “ **On the contrary, it was the commonly-held view among the officials dealing with Iraq that any threat had been effectively contained … At the same time, we would frequently argue, when the US raised the subject, that ‘regime change’ was inadvisable, primarily on the grounds that Iraq would collapse into chaos**.” > > Mr Ross continued: “**There was no intelligence evidence of significant holdings of CW [chemical warfare], BW [biological warfare] or nuclear material. Aerial or satellite surveillance was unable to get under the roofs of Iraqi facilities. We therefore had to rely on inherently unreliable human sources.**” > > He added: “ **Iraq’s ability to launch a WMD or any form of attack was very limited. There were approximately 12 or so unaccounted-for Scud missiles; Iraq’s airforce was depleted to the point of total ineffectiveness; its army was but a pale shadow of its earlier might; there was no evidence of any connection with any terrorist organisation that might have planned an attack using Iraqi WMD.** ” Bolding mine for the benefit of scum like **Dave**. ---
**Author:** ![Sevastopol](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/cdc98d/32.png) [@Sevastopol](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sevastopol)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2006, 11:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mission-accomplished-my-rosy-red-ass/384076/137 "2006-12-16T23:30:10Z")
I’m sure nothing can knock **democrat-dave** off his perch of happiness now that the Republicans have lost the house and Senate. Nosiree, so I fail to see why anybody even tries. ---
**Author:** ![Syntropy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/65b543/32.png) [@Syntropy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Syntropy)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2006, 12:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mission-accomplished-my-rosy-red-ass/384076/138 "2006-12-18T00:16:30Z")
[QUOTE=John Mace] Hmm. I guess I was wrong. [/quote] John, this is reason #1 why I like you so much, even though we butt heads constantly. You’re never afraid to use those three little words. > [@](#): > > So the question is, would the Democratic Congress dare to not fund troops that Bush sends over there? Or, if they beat him to the punch, will he try and blame them for “the escalating violence” and having hamstrung him from doing something about it? Pelosi has stated in no uncertain terms that the Dems [will not cut funding](http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/16057734/) > [@](#): > > But impeachment? It’s too late for that. Yeah, unfortunately I tend to agree. And I don’t believe it would be a good move politically, not if we want to keep congress for more than two years. ---
**Author:** ![Mellivora\_capensis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/8797f3/32.png) [@Mellivora\_capensis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mellivora_capensis)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2006, 2:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mission-accomplished-my-rosy-red-ass/384076/139 "2006-12-18T14:34:57Z")
[QUOTE=Maureen] John, this is reason #1 why I like you so much, even though we butt heads constantly. You’re never afraid to use those three little words. [/QUOTE] Three? Damn, no wonder I failed math. 😛 ---
**Author:** ![Syntropy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/65b543/32.png) [@Syntropy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Syntropy)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2006, 5:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mission-accomplished-my-rosy-red-ass/384076/140 "2006-12-18T17:48:13Z")
[QUOTE=Mellivora capensis] Three? Damn, no wonder I failed math. 😛 [/QUOTE] Yup. Those three words that you never hear men say: “I was wrong.” Or anyone anymore, for that matter. It’s as if we’ve become allergic to saying it; most people will do anything to avoid it. Admitting “I was wrong” is on a par with admitting you shot your neighbor’s wife and had sex with his dog. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mission-accomplished-my-rosy-red-ass/384076.md?page=6) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mission-accomplished-my-rosy-red-ass/384076.md?page=8)