# Mississippi bill would mandate teaching of creationism in public schools **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [January 24, 2006, 7:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mississippi-bill-would-mandate-teaching-of-creationism-in-public-schools/341366 "2006-01-24T07:45:33Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2006, 1:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mississippi-bill-would-mandate-teaching-of-creationism-in-public-schools/341366/21 "2006-01-24T13:46:39Z")
I’d be interested in hearing what Codrescu says on the subject. I suspect that, were it not for his outrageous accent, he might be a bit of a blowhard; but he’s also not above saying something provocative just for fun. He’s a playful, ironic commentator. That said, I’m not remotely upset about this. I already knew that Mississippi had at least one idiot in their state legislature, and one idiot is all it takes to get a bill proposed. **Kambukta** , surely New South Wales has some body that makes laws for the region, right? Are you saying that this legislative body doesn’t have a single idiot in it? Daniel ---
**Author:** ![Merijeek](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f05b48/32.png) [@Merijeek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Merijeek)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2006, 1:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mississippi-bill-would-mandate-teaching-of-creationism-in-public-schools/341366/22 "2006-01-24T13:54:10Z")
> [@Martin Hyde](#): > > It’s hard to say as I haven’t any experience with Mississippi (driven through a few times), but in a lot of “Mississippi-like” states I know parents (even huge numbers of non-Catholics or even atheists) will send their kids to Catholic schools as they aren’t big fans of the local school system’s quality of education. Actually, it’s because your typical public school in Mississippi is 50%-100% black. As such, it allows non-black parents who can afford it to send their non-black kids to non-black schools. While there’s some decent public schools in the state I can certainly point you to a whole lot more that are terrible. If you’d like to see for yourself, I’d suggest swinging by the towns of Fayette, Rolling Fork, or Greenville. These towns have schools where half the windows are boarded up at any given time. -Joe ---
**Author:** ![crowmanyclouds](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crowmanyclouds/32/19884_2.png) [@crowmanyclouds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/crowmanyclouds)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2006, 2:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mississippi-bill-would-mandate-teaching-of-creationism-in-public-schools/341366/23 "2006-01-24T14:44:44Z")
> [@kambuckta](#): > > …a country as great as the US (which, deserved or not, has been the pinnacle of ‘civilisation’ to which other lesser countries hope to aspire)… Fooled ya, didn’t we? 😃 ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2006, 3:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mississippi-bill-would-mandate-teaching-of-creationism-in-public-schools/341366/24 "2006-01-24T15:09:48Z")
> [@Diogenes the Cynic](#): > > What part of “UNCONSTITUTIONAL” do they not understand. The SCOTUS has ruled against teaching creationism, but not against ID. I’m sure you know that the Dover decision is not binding on Mississippi schools. If this law comes out of committee w/o the creationism part, it won’t be unconsitutional. ---
**Author:** ![glee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/b5a626/32.png) [@glee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/glee)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2006, 3:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mississippi-bill-would-mandate-teaching-of-creationism-in-public-schools/341366/25 "2006-01-24T15:25:53Z")
If there was a religion that had a fundamental tenet of levitation, no doubt they’d try to introduce the following argument: - since the Theory of Gravity is ‘just a theory’, and we know God created levitation, any class which mentions one MUST teach the other… ---
**Author:** ![Ludovic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ab992/32.png) [@Ludovic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ludovic)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2006, 3:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mississippi-bill-would-mandate-teaching-of-creationism-in-public-schools/341366/26 "2006-01-24T15:50:35Z")
“Intelligent Falling” ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2006, 3:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mississippi-bill-would-mandate-teaching-of-creationism-in-public-schools/341366/27 "2006-01-24T15:54:34Z")
> [@John Mace](#): > > The SCOTUS has ruled against teaching creationism, but not against ID. I’m sure you know that the Dover decision is not binding on Mississippi schools. If this law comes out of committee w/o the creationism part, it won’t be unconsitutional. Want to bet? ID IS creationism. There is no way to teach it without teaching that there is a designer. We also just had a federal ruling that ID cannot be separated fron creationism and I expect that precedent to hold. ID is purely a religious belief. If you don’t teach it as a religious belief there’s nothing left to teach. “Design” can only be seen by faith. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2006, 4:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mississippi-bill-would-mandate-teaching-of-creationism-in-public-schools/341366/28 "2006-01-24T16:16:16Z")
> [@Diogenes the Cynic](#): > > Want to bet? What’s the bet? > [@](#): > > ID IS creationism. I’m not so sure that some creative IDers couldn’t dress it up differently and pass muster. > [@](#): > > There is no way to teach it without teaching that there is a designer. We also just had a federal ruling that ID cannot be separated fron creationism and I expect that precedent to hold. Depends on the details. In the Dover case, probably. In another case, well, it depends on the details. ---
**Author:** ![mhendo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mhendo/32/3159_2.png) [@mhendo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mhendo)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2006, 4:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mississippi-bill-would-mandate-teaching-of-creationism-in-public-schools/341366/29 "2006-01-24T16:19:03Z")
> [@John Mace](#): > > The SCOTUS has ruled against teaching creationism, but not against ID. I’m sure you know that the Dover decision is not binding on Mississippi schools. If this law comes out of committee w/o the creationism part, it won’t be unconsitutional. But how can ID, in any meaningful way, emerge without incorporating the issue of creationism? You can have creationism without ID, but it seems to me very difficult to have ID without creationism. To tell you the truth, if we have to put up with _any_ religious bullshit being injected into the science curriculum, i think i’d prefer creationism. At least that can, in certain of its iterations, coexist reasonably comfortably with the theory of evolution, as long as no expansive claims are made about the origins of life and the universe. On preview, i see you’ve already answered **Diogenes** , but i still think that it would take a _very_ creative spin to remove creationism from ID. ---
**Author:** ![Squink](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5e925/32.png) [@Squink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Squink)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2006, 4:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mississippi-bill-would-mandate-teaching-of-creationism-in-public-schools/341366/30 "2006-01-24T16:27:05Z")
> [@John Mace](#): > > I’m not so sure that some creative IDers couldn’t dress it up differently and pass muster. I look forward to seeing major advances in the theory of creatorless design. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2006, 4:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mississippi-bill-would-mandate-teaching-of-creationism-in-public-schools/341366/31 "2006-01-24T16:45:57Z")
> [@John Mace](#): > > What’s the bet? Whether the teaching of ID in public schools could ever survive a Supreme Court challenge. I wasn’t actually proposing any terms for a literal wager, though. I was making a joking reference to that other thread. > [@](#): > > I’m not so sure that some creative IDers couldn’t dress it up differently and pass muster. I’d like to hear how. > [@](#): > > Depends on the details. In the Dover case, probably. In another case, well, it depends on the details. The ruling in the Dover case was pretty broad. The judge said that _any_ teaching of ID was unconstitutional, not just the particular case before the court. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2006, 5:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mississippi-bill-would-mandate-teaching-of-creationism-in-public-schools/341366/32 "2006-01-24T17:13:15Z")
> [@Diogenes the Cynic](#): > > Whether the teaching of ID in public schools could ever survive a Supreme Court challenge. I wasn’t actually proposing any terms for a literal wager, though. I was making a joking reference to that other thread. OK. > [@](#): > > I’d like to hear how. > > The ruling in the Dover case was pretty broad. The judge said that _any_ teaching of ID was unconstitutional, not just the particular case before the court. I’m sure we’ll get a chance in the near future to see how other lower court justices rule. ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2006, 5:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mississippi-bill-would-mandate-teaching-of-creationism-in-public-schools/341366/33 "2006-01-24T17:58:26Z")
> [@fushj00mang](#): > > However, with that said, Intelligent Design should be taught as a philosophy, not in a science class. Perhaps a BAIS type class? That got tried. [Link](http://www.latimes.com/news/local/la-me-design11jan11,0,7737779.story?coll=la-home-headlines) The school board withdrew the class after a number of people in the district threatened to sue, not wanting to spend the money. (Wise people.) A truly even situation might be good, but in this case, they claimed that they were being fair by inviting Francis Crick to talk about evolution. Two minor problems. I doubt a Nobel Laureate would go to a little town for this, and he’s been dead for several years. I’m sure we’ll see more or the “call it philosophy, but make it one sided” approach. ---
**Author:** ![Duckster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/duckster/32/1244_2.png) [@Duckster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Duckster)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2006, 6:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mississippi-bill-would-mandate-teaching-of-creationism-in-public-schools/341366/34 "2006-01-24T18:26:30Z")
> [@Diogenes the Cynic](#): > > [What is it with these fucking idiots?](http://www.ncseweb.org/resources/news/2006/MS/367_antievolution_legislation_in_m_1_23_2006.asp) If you take the time to read the [official Mississippi Legislature bios](http://www.ls.state.ms.us/hr_membs.htm) of the sponsor and co-sponsors on the government web site, you will find every one lists their religious faith affiliation. Hmmm. ---
**Author:** ![Cunctator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/43a26b/32.png) [@Cunctator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cunctator)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2006, 10:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mississippi-bill-would-mandate-teaching-of-creationism-in-public-schools/341366/35 "2006-01-24T22:31:55Z")
> [@Left Hand of Dorkness](#): > > I already knew that Mississippi had at least one idiot in their state legislature, and one idiot is all it takes to get a bill proposed. **Kambukta** , surely New South Wales has some body that makes laws for the region, right? Are you saying that this legislative body doesn’t have a single idiot in it? I can assure you that the NSW Parliament has its fair share of idiots too. ---
**Author:** ![Martin\_Hyde](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/47e85d/32.png) [@Martin\_Hyde](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Martin_Hyde)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2006, 10:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mississippi-bill-would-mandate-teaching-of-creationism-in-public-schools/341366/36 "2006-01-24T22:37:21Z")
> [@Merijeek](#): > > Actually, it’s because your typical public school in Mississippi is 50%-100% black. As such, it allows non-black parents who can afford it to send their non-black kids to non-black schools. > > While there’s some decent public schools in the state I can certainly point you to a whole lot more that are terrible. If you’d like to see for yourself, I’d suggest swinging by the towns of Fayette, Rolling Fork, or Greenville. These towns have schools where half the windows are boarded up at any given time. > > -Joe They may be why people in Mississippi send their kids to private school but it wasn’t what I was talking about, I was talking about how poor states are often viewed as having a bad public school system. And that the middle/upper class people in these states recognize this fact and send their kids to private school to avoid it. My experiences are in parts of Virginia where there actually aren’t many blacks per se, and in West Virginia where there’s virtually none (it’s like 98% white.) ---
**Author:** ![photopat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/e95f7d/32.png) [@photopat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/photopat)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2006, 11:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mississippi-bill-would-mandate-teaching-of-creationism-in-public-schools/341366/37 "2006-01-24T23:04:45Z")
> [@Duckster](#): > > If you take the time to read the [official Mississippi Legislature bios](http://www.ls.state.ms.us/hr_membs.htm) of the sponsor and co-sponsors on the government web site, you will find every one lists their religious faith affiliation. > > Hmmm. I don’t think that means anything. As I counted, all but five of the legislators listed a religious afffiliation. I suspect it was just a standard question on the bio form and only a few left it blank. It is the bible belt after all. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2006, 11:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mississippi-bill-would-mandate-teaching-of-creationism-in-public-schools/341366/38 "2006-01-24T23:55:26Z")
> [@Martin Hyde](#): > > West Virginia where there’s virtually none (it’s like 98% white.) 94.7%. Even VT isn’t 98% White. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Eleusis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/f4b2a3/32.png) [@Eleusis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eleusis)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2006, 12:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mississippi-bill-would-mandate-teaching-of-creationism-in-public-schools/341366/39 "2006-01-25T00:41:23Z")
Yeah, there’s a lot of bible thumpers down here all right. When I moved here and went to open a checking account, the damn godlady bankteller even had the gall to ask which fucking _church_ I go to. It’s the BUCKLE of the bible belt. No alcohol on Sundays, no gambling (at least in this county), but the bluehaired church people gotta have their bingo. Hypocrisy I tells ya. If this bill passes (and it probably has a better chance than you think), I sure as hell won’t be sending my (unborn) daughter to these schools. Meh. I miss Chicago. ---
**Author:** ![OtakuLoki](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/ac8455/32.png) [@OtakuLoki](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/OtakuLoki)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2006, 12:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mississippi-bill-would-mandate-teaching-of-creationism-in-public-schools/341366/40 "2006-01-25T00:47:03Z")
> [@Eleusis](#): > > If this bill passes (and it probably has a better chance than you think), I sure as hell won’t be sending my (unborn) daughter to these schools. > Meh. I miss Chicago. Considering that similar bills died in committee for the past three or four years, I think you’re overestimating the stupidity of your State Representatives. (Possibly not, I’ll admit. Usually you can’t go broke betting on idiocy, I know. In this case, however, I do have some evidence to support the more intelligent option.) [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mississippi-bill-would-mandate-teaching-of-creationism-in-public-schools/341366.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mississippi-bill-would-mandate-teaching-of-creationism-in-public-schools/341366.md?page=3)