# Mississippi bill would mandate teaching of creationism in public schools **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [January 24, 2006, 7:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mississippi-bill-would-mandate-teaching-of-creationism-in-public-schools/341366 "2006-01-24T07:45:33Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 16\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Frostillicus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/e9bcb4/32.png) [@Frostillicus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frostillicus)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2006, 3:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mississippi-bill-would-mandate-teaching-of-creationism-in-public-schools/341366/41 "2006-01-25T03:33:50Z")
> [@Eleusis](#): > > When I moved here and went to open a checking account, the damn godlady bankteller even had the gall to ask which fucking _church_ I go to. It’s the BUCKLE of the bible belt. I hope you politely told her that it was none of her fucking business. ---
**Author:** ![Eleusis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/f4b2a3/32.png) [@Eleusis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eleusis)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2006, 3:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mississippi-bill-would-mandate-teaching-of-creationism-in-public-schools/341366/42 "2006-01-25T03:38:05Z")
Yeah, I didn’t mean to imply that I though it had a decent chance of passing… just that the probability isn’t zero. While I’m here I’ll also apologize for the snarkiness of the “godlady” and “church people” quips… it just gets really old after a while when so many assume right off the bat that you must share their fundamentalist beliefs. Damn fuckers trying to save my “soul”. I don’t have one. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Eleusis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/f4b2a3/32.png) [@Eleusis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eleusis)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2006, 3:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mississippi-bill-would-mandate-teaching-of-creationism-in-public-schools/341366/43 "2006-01-25T03:43:10Z")
> [@Frostillicus](#): > > I hope you politely told her that it was none of her fucking business. In retrospect, I wish I had. Or that I had told her Church of Satan or some such just to freak her out. _IT’S DARKSIDED!!!_ But, alas, I just wanted to get the hell out of there with an account as quickly as possible so I lied and said something about how we just moved into town and hadn’t decided yet. Of course she invited me to hers (the bitch) 😃 ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2006, 3:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mississippi-bill-would-mandate-teaching-of-creationism-in-public-schools/341366/44 "2006-01-25T03:47:21Z")
> [@Eleusis](#): > > In retrospect, I wish I had. Or that I had told her Church of Satan or some such just to freak her out. _IT’S DARKSIDED!!!_ > > But, alas, I just wanted to get the hell out of there with an account as quickly as possible so I lied and said something about how we just moved into town and hadn’t decided yet. Of course she invited me to hers (the bitch) 😃 We hope to find a very nice mosque, God willing. May Allah bless you. Salaam. :eek: :eek: :eek: ---
**Author:** ![Giles](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/giles/32/60_2.png) [@Giles](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Giles)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2006, 11:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mississippi-bill-would-mandate-teaching-of-creationism-in-public-schools/341366/45 "2006-01-25T11:52:36Z")
> [@explore like dora](#): > > Australia, lacking the First Amendment protection of freedom of religion that the United States’ enjoys, would be powerless to prevent his conflation of church and state. That’s not quite true: > [@Constitution of Australia](#): > > 1. The Commonwealth shall not make any law for establishing any religion, or for imposing any religious observance, or for prohibiting the free exercise of any religion, and no religious test shall be required as a qualification for any office or public trust under the Commonwealth. Now, that does not bind the States, and has not been interpreted to give as strict a separation of church and state as the First Amendment gives in the U.S., but Australia does have constitutional freedom of religion. ---
**Author:** ![Malacandra](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Malacandra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malacandra)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2006, 1:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mississippi-bill-would-mandate-teaching-of-creationism-in-public-schools/341366/46 "2006-01-25T13:53:47Z")
> [@Eleusis](#): > > Yeah, there’s a lot of bible thumpers down here all right. > > When I moved here and went to open a checking account, the damn godlady bankteller even had the gall to ask which fucking _church_ I go to. It’s the BUCKLE of the bible belt. > > No alcohol on Sundays, no gambling (at least in this county), but the bluehaired church people gotta have their bingo. Hypocrisy I tells ya. > > If this bill passes (and it probably has a better chance than you think), I sure as hell won’t be sending my (unborn) daughter to these schools. > Meh. I miss Chicago. :eek: Talk about startin’ 'em young! 😃 ---
**Author:** ![explore\_like\_dora](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/eada6e/32.png) [@explore\_like\_dora](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/explore_like_dora)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2006, 2:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mississippi-bill-would-mandate-teaching-of-creationism-in-public-schools/341366/47 "2006-01-25T14:03:20Z")
**Giles** , since education is the responsbility of the states in Australia, Australia would, just as I said, be powerless to prevent the hypothetical I was discussing. Also, as you say, Australian courts have not ruled that Article 116 mandates the seperation of church and state to the extent that the United States’ First amendment does. Perhaps my statement could have been more accurately phrased, however, in substance it is true. Australian Federal and State governments directly fund religious schools - vouchers don’t even enter into the equation. Government support of religious schools is so great that Australia has the world’s largest publicly funded private school system - and in Australia, private school almost universally means a religious school. Further, in some Australian government-run schools - certainly all in New South Wales - time is specifically allocated for religious instruction, and although most high schools do not make use of that time for this purpose, primary schools do run religious-instruction classes which require parents to opt their children out of if they do not wish them to attend. As such, I maintain what I say. Australia, despite the lip-service it receives in the constitution, does not enjoy the protection of freedom of religion that the United States does. Specifically, any moves to introduce Intelligent Design into an Australian classroom would not be barred by Section 116, firstly because it would be the states introducing it, not the Commonwealth, and secondly, because religion is already taught in Australian public schools. ---
**Author:** ![Merijeek](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f05b48/32.png) [@Merijeek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Merijeek)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2006, 2:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mississippi-bill-would-mandate-teaching-of-creationism-in-public-schools/341366/48 "2006-01-25T14:17:23Z")
> [@Eleusis](#): > > Meh. I miss Chicago. Yeah, I miss good old Milwaukee myself. My county (Rankin, for those in the know) had a referndum last election about allowing the sale of alcohol here. Nope. Not even a little bit. Which is just amazing, seeing as how every good Baptist boy down here doesn’t drink, but none of them would ever go hunting or fishing without something to drink. -Joe ---
**Author:** ![Giles](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/giles/32/60_2.png) [@Giles](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Giles)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2006, 2:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mississippi-bill-would-mandate-teaching-of-creationism-in-public-schools/341366/49 "2006-01-25T14:34:11Z")
Yes, **explore like dora** , you’re right, because s. 116 of the Constitution does not bind the States of Australia. So the State of New South Wales could establish Scientology as the state religion, forbid the followers of all other religions from following their religions in public, and require all New South Wales public servants to be Scientologists. (No, it’s not at all likely to happen – but in theory it could). Yes, the Commonwealth of Australia funds private religious schools, and the High Court of Australia has held that this does not violate s. 116 – but it is funding them as schools, not as religious institutions, and some private schools in Australia are non-religious, though the majority are Catholic, and most of the rest belong to other religions. Yes, state schools in Australia generally have about one period per week for religious instruction, which is given by outside teachers sent by particular religions. However, students (or their parents) are quite free to opt out of this, and spend the period quietly studying. Though there would seem to be no constitutional barrier to creationism being taught in state schools, there might be some question about it being taught in schools in the Australian Capital Territory and the Northern Territory, since (although those territories are self-governing) any territory law ultimately derives its authority from the Commonwealth, and the High Court might hold that teaching creationism violates s. 116 – the issue has never been raised, and it’s unlikely to be raised, because it’s politically unlikely that any government in Australia would require the teaching of creationism or intelligent design, regardless of what that idiot Brendan Nelson says. However, my point was to dispute your assertion that “Australia [is] lacking the First Amendment protection of freedom of religion that the United States’ enjoys”, since Australia (as a federal state) does have constitutional freedom of religion, even if it’s not exactly the same as the freedom of religion given in the First Amendment. ---
**Author:** ![UnwrittenNocturne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/6de8d8/32.png) [@UnwrittenNocturne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UnwrittenNocturne)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2006, 2:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mississippi-bill-would-mandate-teaching-of-creationism-in-public-schools/341366/50 "2006-01-25T14:43:47Z")
> [@Eleusis](#): > > Yeah, there’s a lot of bible thumpers down here all right. > > When I moved here and went to open a checking account, the damn godlady bankteller even had the gall to ask which fucking _church_ I go to. It’s the BUCKLE of the bible belt. > > No alcohol on Sundays, no gambling (at least in this county), but the bluehaired church people gotta have their bingo. Hypocrisy I tells ya. Oh I hear that. Having moved to the state next door to you, from a country where talking about religion at all is considered odd and slightly distasteful I hear you 100% ---
**Author:** ![Princhester](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3e96dc/32.png) [@Princhester](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Princhester)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2006, 11:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mississippi-bill-would-mandate-teaching-of-creationism-in-public-schools/341366/51 "2006-01-25T23:21:42Z")
Is Brendon Nelson as fervent as you say? My impression is that he knew that he could say what he said without it ever leading to any changes because everyone else would find the idea laughable, but that in the meantime he would pick up fundie votes. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2006, 12:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mississippi-bill-would-mandate-teaching-of-creationism-in-public-schools/341366/52 "2006-01-26T00:00:59Z")
> [@Diogenes the Cynic](#): > > [What is it with these fucking idiots?](http://www.ncseweb.org/resources/news/2006/MS/367_antievolution_legislation_in_m_1_23_2006.asp) From the linked article: > [@](#): > > The chief sponsor of HB 953 is Representative Mike Lott (R-District 104); the cosponsors are Representatives Virginia Carlton (R-District 100), John L. Moore (R-District 60), Gary V. Staples (R-District 88), and Carmel Wells-Smith (R-District 111). Wells-Smith introduced antievolution legislation in previous legislative sessions: HB 888 and 1101 in 2002, HB 1397 in 2003, and HB 1288 in 2004. All of these bills died in committee. So, let’s not overreact. This is apparently a gesture some Mississippi state legislators make every year for the sake of a religious-conservative segment of their constituencies. It never goes anywhere. ---
**Author:** ![kniz](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/c37758/32.png) [@kniz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kniz)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2006, 6:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mississippi-bill-would-mandate-teaching-of-creationism-in-public-schools/341366/53 "2006-01-26T06:56:59Z")
> [@OtakuLoki](#): > > Considering that similar bills died in committee for the past three or four years, I think you’re overestimating the stupidity of your State Representatives. (Possibly not, I’ll admit. Usually you can’t go broke betting on idiocy, I know. In this case, however, I do have some evidence to support the more intelligent option.) Since being a Christian is supposed to be a given in this state, it is also considered a necessary formality to introduce legislation that makes the masses believe you are promoting such obvious attempts to get religion back into the schools. They know it will be declared unconstitutional, but it brings in the votes of the faithful. ---
**Author:** ![Zoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/a4c791/32.png) [@Zoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zoe)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2006, 11:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mississippi-bill-would-mandate-teaching-of-creationism-in-public-schools/341366/54 "2006-01-26T11:00:55Z")
> [@](#): > > **MGibson** : > > > [@](#): > > > > **kambuckta** : Yes, I know that it is one state that is trying it on, but from us on the other side of the world, we do but wonder how the US itself can be so retarded in their thinking? > > Odd considering the attitudes of people living in the United States can vary widely from state to state. I would think that some people in Mississippi might think that generalizations about them based upon what a few state legislators do would carry about as much weight. The attitudes of people living in Mississippi can also vary widely. **DtC** , why the comment about inbreeding? Was that a factor in Kansas and Pennsylvania? > [@](#): > > **Eleusis** : …Or that I had told her Church of Satan or some such just to freak her out. I like to borrow and oldie from Firesign Theater: Powerhouse Church of the Presumptuous Assumption of the Blinding Light. (It serves me well.) ---
**Author:** ![Zoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/a4c791/32.png) [@Zoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zoe)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2006, 11:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mississippi-bill-would-mandate-teaching-of-creationism-in-public-schools/341366/55 "2006-01-26T11:18:52Z")
> [@](#): > > **MGibson** : > > > [@](#): > > > > **kambuckta** : Yes, I know that it is one state that is trying it on, but from us on the other side of the world, we do but wonder how the US itself can be so retarded in their thinking? > > Odd considering the attitudes of people living in the United States can vary widely from state to state. I would think that some people in Mississippi might think that generalizations about them based upon what a few state legislators do would carry about as much weight. The attitudes of people living in Mississippi can also vary widely. The Pluralism Project: [Religious Diversity in Southern Mississippi](http://www.pluralism.org/resources/slideshow/thumbs.php?show=brown&shownumber=&from=1&to=48) **DtC** , why the comment about inbreeding? Was that a factor in Kansas and Pennsylvania? > [@](#): > > **Eleusis** : …Or that I had told her Church of Satan or some such just to freak her out. I like to borrow and oldie from Firesign Theater: Powerhouse Church of the Presumptuous Assumption of the Blinding Light. (It serves me well.) ---
**Author:** ![Mint\_Julep](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/bc79bd/32.png) [@Mint\_Julep](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mint_Julep)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2006, 10:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mississippi-bill-would-mandate-teaching-of-creationism-in-public-schools/341366/56 "2006-01-26T22:27:32Z")
Hey, before you go lopping Mississippi off and pushing us out into the Gulf…Just post a message on this board so some of the intelligent Mississippians can get the memo and a plane ticket. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mississippi-bill-would-mandate-teaching-of-creationism-in-public-schools/341366.md?page=2)