# Mississippi school district outraged about student survey **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [May 19, 2011, 5:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mississippi-school-district-outraged-about-student-survey/582470 "2011-05-19T17:07:36Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Strassia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e8c25b/32.png) [@Strassia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Strassia)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2011, 5:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mississippi-school-district-outraged-about-student-survey/582470/1 "2011-05-19T17:07:36Z")
Several African American students at a predominantly black school conducted a survey asking students: “Name the two teachers who have taught you the most at Broad Street High.” When the majority of students surveyed picked two white teachers from out of state, the school board responded by shutting down an after-school tutoring and leadership program the students belonged to and banning the instructors of that program from the school. Full story [here](http://www.theroot.com/views/when-student-power-causes-trouble?page=0,0). Standout portions of the story to me: > [@](#): > > Katana Frazier told The Root, “The main purpose of the survey was to show what kind of teachers have shown significant improvement in the school system and made big impacts in the lives of students.” They tabulated that out of the 45 students they asked, the majority chose two employees – both of them white – of Teach for America, the national organization that recruits recent college graduates to commit to two years of teaching in urban and rural schools. > > The students reported the results during a school board meeting. In their statement, they announced that of the students they surveyed, the majority had chosen teachers who **“were not from around here, did not look like us and were all successful at improving student learning.”** Bolding mine. That seems to be seen as the crux of the issue. The school district seems to be taking this as an attack on the community by outsiders. Does this make sense to anyone? What is really going on? Is there an unstated history here that I am missing? Compare this statement from the school board VP > [@](#): > > Reed told The Root, “The teachers of North Bolivar – they’re working hard and doing a great job. They don’t need this negative talk in the community. It brings down the morale of the staff, pits the white teachers against black teachers.” The students claimed that neither the survey nor their observations were intended to be racially insensitive. with this quote from the banned teacher: > [@](#): > > Castagnola, a white Teach for America alumnus, understood the problematic assumptions of the student survey, but he believed that the focus shouldn’t be on race. He said, “When you ask which teachers have taught you the most, the answers should be used to recognize the skill sets among those teachers so they can be transferred to others.” I fully understanding wanting to have teachers from the community and that the students can identify as “like them”. But has that preference become so dogmatic that this survey could be considered an attack on the system? ---
**Author:** ![Critical1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/3e96dc/32.png) [@Critical1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Critical1)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2011, 5:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mississippi-school-district-outraged-about-student-survey/582470/2 "2011-05-19T17:33:58Z")
this is why we cant have nice education in America. instead of looking at what those teachers are doing they immediately play the race card (note I have no idea who played the card but some one was sure quick to whip that thing out.) and make it a white against black issue. I would bet a pay check that there are black teachers at that school who want to see what the white teachers were doing so they could get better at doing the thing they are there to do…Teach kids. ---
**Author:** ![Deeg](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/deeg/32/2955_2.png) [@Deeg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Deeg)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2011, 5:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mississippi-school-district-outraged-about-student-survey/582470/3 "2011-05-19T17:45:03Z")
Sounds like Teach for America is doing exactly what we’d hope it would do. ---
**Author:** ![Odesio](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/odesio/32/20003_2.png) [@Odesio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Odesio)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2011, 5:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mississippi-school-district-outraged-about-student-survey/582470/4 "2011-05-19T17:52:25Z")
> [@Strassia](#): > > I fully understanding wanting to have teachers from the community and that the students can identify as “like them”. But has that preference become so dogmatic that this survey could be considered an attack on the system? There will always be people who resent the presence of what they see as interlopers. I can certainly see why the school board feels threatened by the embarrassing results of the survey. It **is** an attack on the system. The students surveyed have essentially declared that nobody in the system is as good as the two teachers from outside. Then there’s the race factor to consider. I wonder if most of the folks from Teach for America are white. This might further exacerbate feelings of interlopers coming into the community as do-gooders for a few years before leaving. I’d certainly be interested in learning more about the situation. What was Michael Castagnola’s involvement, if any, in the student’s survey? Are there racial problems in the area? Bobbie Reed seemed to think that choosing two white teachers had deep implications in an area mostly made up of African Americans. I’m not sure what those implications are. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2011, 6:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mississippi-school-district-outraged-about-student-survey/582470/5 "2011-05-19T18:59:01Z")
On the face of it, assuming the article is correct and the quotes given are representative, this seems like a stupid administrator problem in that school. Whether it represents something symptomatic throughout the US… I’d need to see a _lot_ more data before jumping to that conclusion. ---
**Author:** ![Simplicio](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c37758/32.png) [@Simplicio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Simplicio)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2011, 7:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mississippi-school-district-outraged-about-student-survey/582470/6 "2011-05-19T19:11:38Z")
“Katana” is a pretty bad-ass first name. This kinda feels like one of those articles where we’re not getting the whole story. I suspect there were issues between the guy that ran the program that was canceled and someone on the school-board that didn’t really have to do with the survey. A survey of 45 kids asking “what teacher do you think is best” isn’t particularly convincing measure of what teachers actually are most effective, especially when with NCLB testing, the administration presumably has an actual scientific answer to the “who do you think is best” question. I have trouble believing the school managed to get so freaked out about just the survey. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2011, 7:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mississippi-school-district-outraged-about-student-survey/582470/7 "2011-05-19T19:24:26Z")
> [@Simplicio](#): > > “Katana” is a pretty bad-ass first name. > > This kinda feels like one of those articles where we’re not getting the whole story. I suspect there were issues between the guy that ran the program that was canceled and someone on the school-board that didn’t really have to do with the survey. That was my impression, too. Hence the caveats in my post. > [@](#): > > A survey of 45 kids asking “what teacher do you think is best” isn’t particularly convincing measure of what teachers actually are most effective, especially when with NCLB testing, the administration presumably has an actual scientific answer to the “who do you think is best” question. I have trouble believing the school managed to get so freaked out about just the survey. True, but more importantly, it’s not a good reason to fire a teacher. ---
**Author:** ![Simplicio](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c37758/32.png) [@Simplicio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Simplicio)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2011, 7:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mississippi-school-district-outraged-about-student-survey/582470/8 "2011-05-19T19:31:14Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > True, but more importantly, it’s not a good reason to fire a teacher. Well, thats my point. Its not a good reason, which makes me think that its not the reason. Also, I don’t think he’s a teacher. He is the director of a privately funded after-school program. Also also, I don’t think he was fired, he’s apparently “banned” from the school without permission and they’re considering not continuing with the program he runs. My guess is that the school thought they were signing on for an after-school tutoring program that encouraged older students to tutor younger ones, but the guy in charge of the program wanted to use it to form a student group to agitate for reforms to the school. The school administrators got pissed off when a bunch of kids turned up at schoolboard meetings with a bunch of ideas and criticisms, and took it out on the guy in charge. ---
**Author:** ![Cisco](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ccd318/32.png) [@Cisco](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cisco)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2011, 7:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mississippi-school-district-outraged-about-student-survey/582470/9 "2011-05-19T19:52:42Z")
> [@Simplicio](#): > > with NCLB testing, the administration presumably has an actual scientific answer to the “who do you think is best” question. Do you really believe that? ---
**Author:** ![Death\_of\_Rats](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a6a055/32.png) [@Death\_of\_Rats](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Death_of_Rats)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2011, 8:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mississippi-school-district-outraged-about-student-survey/582470/10 "2011-05-19T20:09:09Z")
> [@](#): > > Members of SICC continued to attend board meetings so that they could voice their concerns regarding the North Bolivar School District during the “public comments” section. The board decided to remove that portion of the meeting because the board felt that everyone was unproductively bashing the superintendent and board members. > > Reed stated, “That’s not what a school board meeting is for.” uh huh. This tells me quite a lot about were the problems in this school district lie. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2011, 8:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mississippi-school-district-outraged-about-student-survey/582470/11 "2011-05-19T20:12:36Z")
> [@Odesio](#): > > I’d certainly be interested in learning more about the situation. What was Michael Castagnola’s involvement, if any, in the student’s survey? From the article - > [@](#): > > Believing the survey to be Castagnola’s idea, Superintendent Ronzy Humphrey and the board declared that Castagnola would be allowed in Broad Street High and Shelby Middle School only with prior approval of building administration. Although the Frazier girls, Keys and Castagnola insisted that the students did the survey of their own volition, Castagnola was no longer able to manage the Peer Power curriculum. (When contacted for an interview, Humphrey replied that he would send a statement via email. So far that statement has not been received.) He was apparently not a teacher at the school, but was the administrator of the after-hours tutoring program. Subsequent events appear to have followed the usual semi-Orwellian arc: > [@](#): > > Members of SICC continued to attend board meetings so that they could voice their concerns regarding the North Bolivar School District during the “public comments” section. The board decided to remove that portion of the meeting because the board felt that everyone was unproductively bashing the superintendent and board members. Translation: we welcome your feedback, except when we don’t. Seems like another instance where protecting the teachers takes precedence over teaching the students. Playing the race card seems to have been more or less a tactic they thought would work, rather than acting on principle. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2011, 8:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mississippi-school-district-outraged-about-student-survey/582470/12 "2011-05-19T20:41:43Z")
I can see a pretty clear pattern, here: Start with an idiotic, emotionally-immature administrator (or set of administrators) for the school. The administration’s idiocy, over time, comes to poison the whole system. Performance suffers. Things get so bad that outside teachers, not yet poisoned by the system, are brought in to try to fix things. The outsiders, unsurprisingly, do better than the insiders, and this is recognized by the students. The administration, being (as noted) idiotic and emotionally immature, takes affront at this and bans the outsiders. ---
**Author:** ![Simplicio](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c37758/32.png) [@Simplicio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Simplicio)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2011, 9:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mississippi-school-district-outraged-about-student-survey/582470/13 "2011-05-19T21:32:26Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > I can see a pretty clear pattern, here: > Start with an idiotic, emotionally-immature administrator (or set of administrators) for the school. > The administration’s idiocy, over time, comes to poison the whole system. Performance suffers. > Things get so bad that outside teachers, not yet poisoned by the system, are brought in to try to fix things. > The outsiders, unsurprisingly, do better than the insiders, and this is recognized by the students. > The administration, being (as noted) idiotic and emotionally immature, takes affront at this and bans the outsiders. Except again, the guy that was banned wasn’t one of the teachers recognized by the students. Also, is there any evidence that the school is under-performing? I didn’t see any in the article other then some of the kids are apparently displeased. I found this site that gives the schools test scores relative to the states, and they [seem](http://www.education.com/schoolfinder/us/michigan/shelby/shelby-middle-school/#test-scores) to be doing alright. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2011, 11:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mississippi-school-district-outraged-about-student-survey/582470/14 "2011-05-19T23:06:26Z")
> [@Cisco](#): > > Do you really believe that? Why? Do you have any bridges for sale? 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Deeg](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/deeg/32/2955_2.png) [@Deeg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Deeg)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2011, 12:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mississippi-school-district-outraged-about-student-survey/582470/15 "2011-05-20T00:42:33Z")
After reading the whole article I have a lot of respect for those kids (assuming, you know, that the article is anywhere near correct). ---
**Author:** ![Odesio](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/odesio/32/20003_2.png) [@Odesio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Odesio)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2011, 1:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mississippi-school-district-outraged-about-student-survey/582470/16 "2011-05-20T01:07:41Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > From the article - Yes, I read the article. It says that the survey was the idea of the students but it isn’t clear to me whether Castlagnalo was involved in some form. ---
**Author:** ![mac\_bolan00](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b3f665/32.png) [@mac\_bolan00](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mac_bolan00)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2011, 9:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mississippi-school-district-outraged-about-student-survey/582470/17 "2011-05-20T09:11:38Z")
they’re looking at improvements to the local teaching structure, employing local professionals. i would think including outsiders in the survey would distort the results. i always believe it has something to do with sloppy survey design. ---
**Author:** ![An\_Arky](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/87869e/32.png) [@An\_Arky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/An_Arky)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2011, 11:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mississippi-school-district-outraged-about-student-survey/582470/18 "2011-05-20T11:27:25Z")
I googled for news results for Broad Street High and Shelby, MS and this is the only article about this. Who are The Root? [http://www.theroot.com/aboutus](http://www.theroot.com/aboutus) I’ll wait for at least a few other sources to pipe in, especially mainstream ones. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2011, 12:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mississippi-school-district-outraged-about-student-survey/582470/19 "2011-05-20T12:13:16Z")
> [@Odesio](#): > > Yes, I read the article. It says that the survey was the idea of the students but it isn’t clear to me whether Castlagnalo was involved in some form. He and the students say No. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![fumster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/e9c0ed/32.png) [@fumster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/fumster)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2011, 2:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mississippi-school-district-outraged-about-student-survey/582470/20 "2011-05-20T14:54:44Z")
There is a certain belief that people learn better from “people like them” thatt hey can identify with, and that educational materials must be carefully constructed to include as many women and people of color as possible. This has become an orthodoxy within the liberal educational system. Perhaps we should ask some grad students to do a study on it. Maybe some of the children of recent Chinese immigrants who are over represented in top schools despite coming from a culture with a different language, religion, and values than those of Americans. “I’m sorry Mrs. Chang, Steve only got a 770 in his math SAT; perhaps if we had had more pictures of Chinese people in his math book he would have received an 800 like his sister… It was entirely inappropriate to have a word problem with 'forks” in it rater than ‘chopsticks’". [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mississippi-school-district-outraged-about-student-survey/582470.md?page=2)