# Mississippi school district outraged about student survey **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [May 19, 2011, 5:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mississippi-school-district-outraged-about-student-survey/582470 "2011-05-19T17:07:36Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Strassia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e8c25b/32.png) [@Strassia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Strassia)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2011, 3:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mississippi-school-district-outraged-about-student-survey/582470/21 "2011-05-20T15:18:46Z")
> [@mac\_bolan00](#): > > they’re looking at improvements to the local teaching structure, employing local professionals. i would think including outsiders in the survey would distort the results. > > i always believe it has something to do with sloppy survey design. The outsiders in the survey were teachers in the school. They just came from outside the area to teach. It would have been sloppier to leave them out. > [@An\_Arky](#): > > I googled for news results for Broad Street High and Shelby, MS and this is the only article about this. > > Who are The Root? [http://www.theroot.com/aboutus](http://www.theroot.com/aboutus) > > I’ll wait for at least a few other sources to pipe in, especially mainstream ones. The Root is part of [Slate Magazine](http://www.slate.com). They also have a section called XX that focuses on women. ---
**Author:** ![code\_grey](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f4b2a3/32.png) [@code\_grey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/code_grey)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2011, 3:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mississippi-school-district-outraged-about-student-survey/582470/22 "2011-05-21T03:14:17Z")
serves the liberal starry eyed do-gooder teachers right. Let them learn their and their efforts’ proper place in the greater scheme of things. Edumacation is our future, indeed. In related news, “Teach For America Chews Up, Spits Out Another Ethnic-Studies Major” [Teach For America Chews Up, Spits Out Another Ethnic-Studies Major](http://www.theonion.com/articles/teach-for-america-chews-up-spits-out-another-ethni,1293/) ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2011, 3:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mississippi-school-district-outraged-about-student-survey/582470/23 "2011-05-21T03:14:39Z")
This story doesn’t make any sense at all. The Board is pissed off that two white teachers were selected, so they shut down an after school tutoring program which was tangientially connected with the survey, at best? There’s got to be more there. ETA: Thanks for your “contribution”, **code\_grey**. Somehow, I’m not particularly surprised that you don’t know the _Onion_ is satire. ---
**Author:** ![code\_grey](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f4b2a3/32.png) [@code\_grey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/code_grey)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2011, 3:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mississippi-school-district-outraged-about-student-survey/582470/24 "2011-05-21T03:33:27Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > ETA: Thanks for your “contribution”, **code\_grey**. Somehow, I’m not particularly surprised that you don’t know the _Onion_ is satire. you don’t say :eek: This is just one of those “life imitates TheOnion” cases. Now let these TFA patsies go edumacate somewhere else. The most successful of their students will grow up, barely pass the dumbed down teacher’s test and become the same sort of useless “role model” educators who just beat up on the borderline competent teachers in this case. The great circle of life keeps rolling on top of the numbskulls. ---
**Author:** ![Farmer\_Jane](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Farmer\_Jane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Farmer_Jane)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2011, 6:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mississippi-school-district-outraged-about-student-survey/582470/25 "2011-05-21T06:21:56Z")
Ha. I’ve seen this stuff happen before, but damn, this administration made it so freaking obvious. There were some outside advocacy groups that wanted to change the way Hispanic kids were treated at a local high school. The school and the district rejected it. But the groups (and the kids) kept pushing and now that school is one of the best in the Metro area. I’m not going to toot my own horn, but I’m pretty pale skinned and I grew up in the Midwest…yet…my Hispanic students **loved** me when I was going through my licensure program. There were only a handful of Hispanic teachers at the school, but the idea that a white girl could, you know, do something meaningful, is a _good_ thing. It is a _good_ thing because Denver is so segregated that the majority of these kids have contact with white people ONLY in a teaching situation. Their peers aren’t white! Neighbors aren’t white! The white people they know are a) their bosses and b) their teachers (at this school, there were a lot of black teachers, but you get my point with this group. student demographics were: hispanic, 62 per cent and black, 33). So it seems to me that if the few white people you relationships with happen to be POSITIVE, that is a GOOD thing. No? ---
**Author:** ![Farmer\_Jane](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Farmer\_Jane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Farmer_Jane)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2011, 6:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mississippi-school-district-outraged-about-student-survey/582470/26 "2011-05-21T06:25:13Z")
> [@code\_grey](#): > > This is just one of those “life imitates TheOnion” cases. Now let these TFA patsies go edumacate somewhere else. The most successful of their students will grow up, barely pass the dumbed down teacher’s test and become the same sort of useless “role model” educators who just beat up on the borderline competent teachers in this case. The great circle of life keeps rolling on top of the numbskulls. TFA, for all its potential pitfalls, is the _last_ group of people who want to teach a test. You want to change the demographic pool of teachers? Start teaching the minority kiddos properly so maybe they have a shot at being the edjumicators. I feel that as a white teacher, that’s part of my job - making sure that kids who ‘don’t look like me’ aren’t going to get the continued short stick. Kids saying that white teachers are the best they’ve had says something about the teachers, not race. If kids in minority schools consistently said that white teachers were better, well, we’d have a problem. ---
**Author:** ![Farmer\_Jane](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Farmer\_Jane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Farmer_Jane)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2011, 6:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mississippi-school-district-outraged-about-student-survey/582470/27 "2011-05-21T06:28:26Z")
> [@CitizenPained](#): > > So it seems to me that if the few white people you relationships with happen to be POSITIVE, that is a GOOD thing. > > No? Sorry: _So it seems to me that if the few white people you have a relationship with happen to be POSITIVE, that is a GOOD thing._ ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2011, 6:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mississippi-school-district-outraged-about-student-survey/582470/28 "2011-05-21T06:35:43Z")
I’ve been a white after school tutor at predominantly minority inner city schools. I didn’t know I was an “interloper.” I was trying to give a shit. ---
**Author:** ![Odesio](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/odesio/32/20003_2.png) [@Odesio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Odesio)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2011, 6:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mississippi-school-district-outraged-about-student-survey/582470/29 "2011-05-21T06:44:32Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > I’ve been a white after school tutor at predominantly minority inner city schools. I didn’t know I was an “interloper.” I was trying to give a shit. Unfortunately, **Diogenes** , some people do have that kind of attitude. I certainly am not arguing that it’s fair but it exists. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2011, 4:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mississippi-school-district-outraged-about-student-survey/582470/30 "2011-05-21T16:09:11Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > I’ve been a white after school tutor at predominantly minority inner city schools. I didn’t know I was an “interloper.” I was trying to give a shit. Well, you probably weren’t any good, so that’s okay. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Mosier](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/7ea924/32.png) [@Mosier](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mosier)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2011, 6:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mississippi-school-district-outraged-about-student-survey/582470/31 "2011-05-21T18:35:17Z")
> [@Deeg](#): > > Sounds like Teach for America is doing exactly what we’d hope it would do. In that particular case, maybe. If you want anecdotes, I have about thirty that show Teach for America in a not-so-positive light. ---
**Author:** ![Strassia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e8c25b/32.png) [@Strassia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Strassia)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2011, 7:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mississippi-school-district-outraged-about-student-survey/582470/32 "2011-05-21T19:44:24Z")
> [@CitizenPained](#): > > Ha. I’ve seen this stuff happen before, but damn, this administration made it so freaking obvious. > > There were some outside advocacy groups that wanted to change the way Hispanic kids were treated at a local high school. The school and the district rejected it. But the groups (and the kids) kept pushing and now that school is one of the best in the Metro area. > > I’m not going to toot my own horn, but I’m pretty pale skinned and I grew up in the Midwest…yet…my Hispanic students **loved** me when I was going through my licensure program. There were only a handful of Hispanic teachers at the school, but the idea that a white girl could, you know, do something meaningful, is a _good_ thing. It is a _good_ thing because Denver is so segregated that the majority of these kids have contact with white people ONLY in a teaching situation. Their peers aren’t white! Neighbors aren’t white! The white people they know are a) their bosses and b) their teachers (at this school, there were a lot of black teachers, but you get my point with this group. student demographics were: hispanic, 62 per cent and black, 33). > > So it seems to me that if the few white people you relationships with happen to be POSITIVE, that is a GOOD thing. > > No? The counter argument used to be that it is harmful if none of the teachers look like them. If you have a school like the one you described and the only blacks were janitors and the only Hispanics were grounds keepers, it tends to put the kid,s life goals in a small box. > [@CitizenPained](#): > > TFA, for all its potential pitfalls, is the _last_ group of people who want to teach a test. > > You want to change the demographic pool of teachers? Start teaching the minority kiddos properly so maybe they have a shot at being the edjumicators. I feel that as a white teacher, that’s part of my job - making sure that kids who ‘don’t look like me’ aren’t going to get the continued short stick. > > Kids saying that white teachers are the best they’ve had says something about the teachers, not race. If kids in minority schools consistently said that white teachers were better, well, we’d have a problem. There have been drives for a long time to not just get teachers who demographically represent the kids, but also to encourage teachers who went to the school to come back and teach. You end up with a closed system of teachers who went the same high school, college and teachers college. Everyone has the same ideas and outsiders are a threat. ---
**Author:** ![Farmer\_Jane](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Farmer\_Jane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Farmer_Jane)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2011, 7:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mississippi-school-district-outraged-about-student-survey/582470/33 "2011-05-21T19:59:25Z")
> [@Strassia](#): > > The counter argument used to be that it is harmful if none of the teachers look like them. If you have a school like the one you described and the only blacks were janitors and the only Hispanics were grounds keepers, it tends to put the kid,s life goals in a small box. But the school I described has (and it varies year to year, so loosely) 63-66 per cent Hispanic population (of which about 8 per cent are in ESL and secluded from mainstream most of the time) and a 33-36 per cent Black one. The remainder are Pacific Islanders, Middle Eastern & Native. Maybe four white kids in the school when I was there. The teachers are mostly white and black. There are 4 or 5 Latino ones - and one is from Puerto Rico and the other, Peru. I’m trying to think here…one was my supervisor. He got an alternative license for being bilingual and is GREAT with the kids. One was an ESL math teacher who went the same route for math (her parents are Mexican) and was fired because she let them cheat, didn’t discipline, and well, didn’t teach. The ESL Puerto Rican teaches Spanish and he’s a good teacher. One of the school counselors is from Mexico and she helps with the ESL students. Her husband is from New York and speaks Spanish as a second language. He’s not Latino, but he’s an honorary Latino to the kids. 😉 The Peruvian teacher teaches Spanish. She is the only one who teaches mainstream. That means that unless you are in ESL, the Hispanic population only sees white and black teachers (unless they are in 2nd year Spanish…) So that’s all I can think of, but I have to be missing someone…hmm…the rest of the teachers seem to be split between black and white. The two often-cited best teachers in mainstream are a black literacy teacher and a white social studies teacher. So for this school, yes, there is a need for more Hispanic teachers. Unfortunately, there is no hiring pool for that. About 76 per cent of Latinos in the Denver metro area won’t graduate. Those numbers are _dismal_. There was one Hispanic principal in the entire school’s history (he was Spaniard, actually, so…) and he only lasted four months. The school has been there since 1983 and while the Latino population surge is reflective of the last 15 years, they didn’t have a Latina homecoming queen until a year ago. Now they’re shutting down the school and replacing it with other schools…and the ESL kids will likely be placed in alternative or tech schools. :rolleyes: > [@](#): > > There have been drives for a long time to not just get teachers who demographically represent the kids, but also to encourage teachers who went to the school to come back and teach. You end up with a closed system of teachers who went the same high school, college and teachers college. Everyone has the same ideas and outsiders are a threat. Yup. The idea, though, is that those teachers will be more invested. ---
**Author:** ![Farmer\_Jane](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Farmer\_Jane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Farmer_Jane)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2011, 8:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mississippi-school-district-outraged-about-student-survey/582470/34 "2011-05-21T20:03:38Z")
Add: I keep vacillating between staying a teacher and quitting. I am _so tired_ of politics and it’s only been like 3 years! One of which were I wasn’t teaching f/t! I teach because I believe in equitable education. It’s my version of public service, I guess. Figures I’d go into an area where my students have so few chances for success (most of my ESL kiddos are sans papeles and have no shot at college). ---
**Author:** ![Gestalt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/90ced4/32.png) [@Gestalt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gestalt)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2011, 8:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mississippi-school-district-outraged-about-student-survey/582470/35 "2011-05-21T20:14:07Z")
> [@Simplicio](#): > > I found this site that gives the schools test scores relative to the states, and they [seem](http://www.education.com/schoolfinder/us/michigan/shelby/shelby-middle-school/#test-scores) to be doing alright. That’s the wrong school. That school is in MI, and this school is in MS. ---
**Author:** ![Strassia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e8c25b/32.png) [@Strassia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Strassia)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2011, 2:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mississippi-school-district-outraged-about-student-survey/582470/36 "2011-05-22T02:17:47Z")
> [@Gestalt](#): > > That’s the wrong school. That school is in MI, and this school is in MS. The school in [question](http://www.education.com/schoolfinder/searchresult/?zip=38774&searchType=simple&state=MS&stateid=25&page=1): Broad Street High School Shelby, MS 38774 Public / 7-12 234 They got 4 out of 10 on the TestRating. They have 99% eligible for free or reduced lunch. They do have a 12:1 student:teacher ratio, which is better than the only 10 [rated school](http://www.education.com/schoolfinder/us/california/palo-alto/henry-m-gunn-high/?page=students-and-teachers) around my area, although that school only has 6% eligible for free or reduced lunch(also, male+female only make up 89% of student body, somehow). > [@CitizenPained](#): > > But the school I described has (and it varies year to year, so loosely) 63-66 per cent Hispanic population (of which about 8 per cent are in ESL and secluded from mainstream most of the time) and a 33-36 per cent Black one. The remainder are Pacific Islanders, Middle Eastern & Native. Maybe four white kids in the school when I was there. > > The teachers are mostly white and black. There are 4 or 5 Latino ones - and one is from Puerto Rico and the other, Peru. I’m trying to think here…one was my supervisor. He got an alternative license for being bilingual and is GREAT with the kids. One was an ESL math teacher who went the same route for math (her parents are Mexican) and was fired because she let them cheat, didn’t discipline, and well, didn’t teach. The ESL Puerto Rican teaches Spanish and he’s a good teacher. One of the school counselors is from Mexico and she helps with the ESL students. Her husband is from New York and speaks Spanish as a second language. He’s not Latino, but he’s an honorary Latino to the kids. 😉 The Peruvian teacher teaches Spanish. She is the only one who teaches mainstream. > > That means that unless you are in ESL, the Hispanic population only sees white and black teachers (unless they are in 2nd year Spanish…) > > So that’s all I can think of, but I have to be missing someone…hmm…the rest of the teachers seem to be split between black and white. The two often-cited best teachers in mainstream are a black literacy teacher and a white social studies teacher. > > So for this school, yes, there is a need for more Hispanic teachers. Unfortunately, there is no hiring pool for that. > > About 76 per cent of Latinos in the Denver metro area won’t graduate. Those numbers are _dismal_. > > There was one Hispanic principal in the entire school’s history (he was Spaniard, actually, so…) and he only lasted four months. The school has been there since 1983 and while the Latino population surge is reflective of the last 15 years, they didn’t have a Latina homecoming queen until a year ago. > > Now they’re shutting down the school and replacing it with other schools…and the ESL kids will likely be placed in alternative or tech schools. :rolleyes: It sounds like your students would benefit from seeing more positive Hispanic role models. That is one thing. It is another to say that only Hispanics can be positive role models for them > [@](#): > > Yup. The idea, though, is that those teachers will be more invested. Which is good, but if all you have is teachers from the area going to the same college and same teachers college, then you have no new ideas coming in. ---
**Author:** ![Farmer\_Jane](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Farmer\_Jane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Farmer_Jane)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2011, 5:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mississippi-school-district-outraged-about-student-survey/582470/37 "2011-05-22T05:50:44Z")
> [@Strassia](#): > > It sounds like your students would benefit from seeing more positive Hispanic role models. That is one thing. It is another to say that only Hispanics can be positive role models for them Yes, they could benefit, and no, I do not think only Hispanics can be positive role models. (: > [@](#): > > Which is good, but if all you have is teachers from the area going to the same college and same teachers college, then you have no new ideas coming in. Agreed! I also do not like new charter schools that are full of young teachers and no experienced ones. ---
**Author:** ![MOIDALIZE](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e274bd/32.png) [@MOIDALIZE](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MOIDALIZE)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2011, 4:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mississippi-school-district-outraged-about-student-survey/582470/38 "2011-05-23T04:21:50Z")
A few points: 1. The opinions of students on the quality of their teachers is important, but not dispositive. 2. I think the students who organized this SICCshelby group deserve praise for their attempt at community service in support of their local public school system. However, their inspiration was the Peer Group, which was started by a commodities trader named Charles McVean and seems to be part of that whole largely fraudulent private school voucher/Michelle Rhee movement. > [@](#): > > The Peer Power Foundation began as “The Greater East High Foundation,” (November 2004). The founding concepts were: (1) Business leaders must becomes involved in our failing public education system at the school level; (2) Students must be introduced to the incentives and disincentives of our Free Enterprise system; (3) High performing students are hired, trained and paid a competitive wage to tutor and mentor lower performing students [http://peerpowerfoundation.org/about](http://peerpowerfoundation.org/about) Their main innovation seems to be hiring students at “competitive” (read: non-union) wages to provide tutoring rather than directly giving money to the school system so they can, I don’t know, hire teachers. 1. Public schools can’t depend on Teach For America to supply them with intelligent, committed teachers. Ultimately, they’re largely going to have to draw most of their teachers from the community, so I can see why the teachers that will remain at the school long after Teach For America is gone would be a bit miffed at the notion that they’re underperforming. The TFA teachers aren’t around to see all the community and funding issues that make a school mediocre, and they all eventually wash their hands of the local school administration so they don’t need to expend much energy worrying about the politics involved. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2011, 6:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mississippi-school-district-outraged-about-student-survey/582470/39 "2011-05-24T06:25:44Z")
If it’s true on the face value of what is posted then the SICC should simply issue a statement that says the Shelby Mississippi school district has been removed from their roster of schools they are willing to support and move on. ---
**Author:** ![Farmer\_Jane](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Farmer\_Jane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Farmer_Jane)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2011, 6:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mississippi-school-district-outraged-about-student-survey/582470/40 "2011-05-24T06:44:21Z")
I’ve never seen a TFA that wasn’t intelligent and committed. Maybe in over their heads, but so is any first year teacher. Aren’t the reqs for TFA higher than NCLB? Or has that changed? Interesssssssssssssssssssssting [Teach for America: 5 Myths That Persist 20 Years On](http://www.time.com/time/nation/article/0,8599,2047211,00.html#ixzz1NFYJeJlC) [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mississippi-school-district-outraged-about-student-survey/582470.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mississippi-school-district-outraged-about-student-survey/582470.md?page=3)