# Mississippi voters approve new state flag **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [November 6, 2020, 12:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mississippi-voters-approve-new-state-flag/924870 "2020-11-06T00:38:16Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![DesertDog](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/desertdog/32/11503_2.png) [@DesertDog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DesertDog)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2020, 1:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mississippi-voters-approve-new-state-flag/924870/61 "2020-11-07T13:29:38Z")
> [@MEBuckner](#): > > Also, vexillologically-speaking, mottoes have no place on flags anyway. The flag without the motto–without _any_ motto–would be a very nice flag. This. As an amateur vexillogist, I’m in the _words do not belong on a flag_ camp (I’m lookin’ at _you_, California Republic). Also, the gold stripes separating the red from the blue looks off to me; white would have been better. The magnolia is fine but why 20 stars encircling it?\* – it looks crowded. The gold star on top is also okay. Is there anything more on the symbology than the sparse description? ---
**Author:** ![Senegoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senegoid/32/6606_2.png) [@Senegoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Senegoid)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2020, 2:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mississippi-voters-approve-new-state-flag/924870/62 "2020-11-07T14:01:25Z")
How about instead, put the full text of the Declaration of Independence on the flag. ---
**Author:** ![Slow\_Moving\_Vehicle](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slow_moving_vehicle/32/291_2.png) [@Slow\_Moving\_Vehicle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slow_Moving_Vehicle)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2020, 2:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mississippi-voters-approve-new-state-flag/924870/63 "2020-11-07T14:08:31Z")
Dear Og. That Milwaukee flag is hideous. I’ve been to Milwaukee, it’s a lovely city; it deserves a better flag. ---
**Author:** ![Slow\_Moving\_Vehicle](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slow_moving_vehicle/32/291_2.png) [@Slow\_Moving\_Vehicle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slow_Moving_Vehicle)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2020, 2:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mississippi-voters-approve-new-state-flag/924870/64 "2020-11-07T14:16:10Z")
> [@DesertDog](#): > > > [@MEBuckner](#): > > > > Also, vexillologically-speaking, mottoes have no place on flags anyway. The flag without the motto–without _any_ motto–would be a very nice flag. > > This. As an amateur vexillogist, I’m in the _words do not belong on a flag_ camp (I’m lookin’ at _you_, California Republic). > > Also, the gold stripes separating the red from the blue looks off to me; white would have been better. The magnolia is fine but why 20 stars encircling it?\* – it looks crowded The gold star on top is also okay. > > Is there anything more on the symbology than the sparse description? The twenty stars refer to Mississippi being the twentieth state to join the Union. The gold star at the top is comprised of diamonds, which apparently have symbolic significance for the Choctaw Nation. The articles I read didn’t say, but I’m guessing that the five diamonds also pay homage to the Five Civilized Tribes, two of which - the Choctaw and the Chickasaw - have their historic homes in Mississippi. ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2020, 2:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mississippi-voters-approve-new-state-flag/924870/65 "2020-11-07T14:28:15Z")
> [@kitap](#): > > I meant this: [https://www.britannica.com/topic/flag-of-Wisconsin](https://www.britannica.com/topic/flag-of-Wisconsin). A badger, cheese and Forward. That’s all it needs. I like the explanation in the _Britannica_ article: > [@](#): > > Many were unhappy that the Wisconsin flag could not be easily distinguished from other state flags, owing to its use of the most popular American design pattern—a blue field with a central state emblem. Ah, the good citizens of Wisconsin realised that their flag fails good flag design principles: too busy, complicated shield, not distinct from other flags. Needed to be fixed. No doubt they got right on that. > [@](#): > > Therefore, on May 14, 1980, the flag design was modified: the name of the state was added above the arms, and its date of admission to the Union (1848) was inscribed below. Argh! They made it worse!!! ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2020, 2:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mississippi-voters-approve-new-state-flag/924870/66 "2020-11-07T14:30:52Z")
> [@JRDelirious](#): > > Many designers are not very sanguine about having reds and blues right upon each other, from some old heraldic norm. Yes, the heraldic norm is based on the principle that those colours bleed into each other, visually, and thus aren’t distinct: “No metal on metal, or colour on colour.” (ie. argent (white) and or (yellow) don’t touch, and none of the other colours touch.) ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2020, 6:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mississippi-voters-approve-new-state-flag/924870/67 "2020-11-07T18:01:15Z")
> **[In God We Trust](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/In_God_We_Trust)** > > Pages for logged out editors learn more > > > > "In God We Trust" (also rendered as "In God we trust") is the official motto of the United States as well as the motto of the U.S. state of Florida. It was adopted by the U.S. Congress in 1956, replacing E pluribus unum ("Out of many, one"), which had been the de facto motto since the initial design of the Great Seal of the United States. > While the earliest mentions of the phrase can be found in the mid-19th century, the origins of this phrase... According to a 2003 joint poll by [USA Today](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USA_Today), [CNN](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CNN), and [Gallup](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Gallup_Organization), 90% of Americans support the inscription “In God We Trust” on U.S. coins.[[11]](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/In_God_We_Trust#cite_note-Poll-11) [https://usatoday30.usatoday.com/news/polls/tables/live/2003-09-29-religion-poll.htm](https://usatoday30.usatoday.com/news/polls/tables/live/2003-09-29-religion-poll.htm) > **[Humor & Whimsy](https://www.liveabout.com/humor-4687973)** > > Indulge your curiosity and have a little fun with these stories about the weird and the wonderful. With articles on aliens, cats, cartoons, and hoaxes, this collection is guaranteed boredom-basher. "…CNBC did conduct a survey more or less along those line in March 2004, asking participants if the words “under God” should be removed from the Pledge of Allegiance. The results broke down similarly to those stated in the email: 85% answered no (meaning they favored keeping the phrase “under God,” and 15% answered yes. Public opinion polls have produced strikingly similar results over the years: - A [Newsweek poll](http://archives.cnn.com/2002/US/06/29/poll.pledge/) in 2002 found that 87% of respondents favored keeping “under God” in the Pledge, and 9% were against. - In 2003, a [Gallup poll](http://www.religioustolerance.org/sep_c_st5.htm) found that 90% of Americans surveyed were in favor of the inscription “In God We Trust” on U.S. coins. In addition to the 8% who said they opposed it, 2% said they didn’t know. - A 2004 Newsweek poll yielded 87% in favor of keeping “under God,” 12% against, and 1% “not sure.” - An [online poll](http://www.nbcnews.com/id/10103521/) launched by MSNBC in 2005 posed the question, “Should the motto ‘In God We Trust’ be removed from U.S. currency?” When last I checked the results, 89% had voted no and 11% had voted yes." So poll after poll after poll supports it, with numbers near 90%. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2020, 6:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mississippi-voters-approve-new-state-flag/924870/68 "2020-11-07T18:23:07Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > So poll after poll after poll supports it, with numbers near 90%. They’re still wrong. And I don’t see how exercising one’s right to expression to assert that wrongness is “petty.” ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2020, 8:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mississippi-voters-approve-new-state-flag/924870/69 "2020-11-07T20:02:49Z")
It is one thing to shout it out here, it is another thing entirely to deface US Currency. ---
**Author:** ![kitap](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/b9e5f3/32.png) [@kitap](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kitap)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2020, 8:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mississippi-voters-approve-new-state-flag/924870/70 "2020-11-07T20:12:37Z")
> [@Northern\_Piper](#): > > > [@kitap](#): > > > > I meant this: [https://www.britannica.com/topic/flag-of-Wisconsin](https://www.britannica.com/topic/flag-of-Wisconsin). A badger, cheese and Forward. That’s all it needs. > > I like the explanation in the _Britannica_ article: > > > [@](#): > > > > Many were unhappy that the Wisconsin flag could not be easily distinguished from other state flags, owing to its use of the most popular American design pattern—a blue field with a central state emblem. > > Ah, the good citizens of Wisconsin realised that their flag fails good flag design principles: too busy, complicated shield, not distinct from other flags. Needed to be fixed. No doubt they got right on that. > > > [@](#): > > > > Therefore, on May 14, 1980, the flag design was modified: the name of the state was added above the arms, and its date of admission to the Union (1848) was inscribed below. > > Argh! They made it worse!!! Yeah, they completely missed the mark. Less is more in flag design. ---
**Author:** ![kayaker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kayaker/32/441_2.png) [@kayaker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kayaker)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2020, 8:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mississippi-voters-approve-new-state-flag/924870/71 "2020-11-07T20:16:07Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > So poll after poll after poll supports it, with numbers near 90%. What percent of approval would it take for you to be cool with mosques being torn down by government decree? ---
**Author:** ![What\_Exit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/what_exit/32/10652_2.png) [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2020, 8:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mississippi-voters-approve-new-state-flag/924870/72 "2020-11-07T20:17:55Z")
That is a lot like asking him if he still beats his wife. Please don’t do that. and yes, I’m Jr. Modding as this isn’t my forum but I think I’m allowed to do that, especially when it is this blatant. * * * **Dr. Deth** , I am genuinely surprised the numbers in those polls are that high. I don’t mind the words but that is still a little depressing. ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2020, 8:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mississippi-voters-approve-new-state-flag/924870/73 "2020-11-07T20:20:16Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > It is one thing to shout it out here, it is another thing entirely to deface US Currency. They may be different things, but they are of equal import. Money is not a god that can be disgraced. And the mark is not one that makes the coin hard to distinguish. Both actions cause no harm, but just speaking out against something people disagree with. And I’m sure that’s more common today than a survey 17 years ago when the US was still in hyper-patriot mode would suggest. Heck, I personally do trust in God, but see the use as a meaningless slogan here as vanity. ---
**Author:** ![ASL\_v2.0](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asl_v2.0/32/3525_2.png) [@ASL\_v2.0](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ASL_v2.0)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2020, 8:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mississippi-voters-approve-new-state-flag/924870/74 "2020-11-07T20:47:29Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > It is one thing to shout it out here, it is another thing entirely to deface US Currency. If it’s done as an effort to protest the metaphorical defacing of the Bill of Rights, I’m all for it. It’s funny how some get more caught up in the physical symbols of our Republic than the values such symbols and the Republic as a whole are supposed to represent. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2020, 9:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mississippi-voters-approve-new-state-flag/924870/75 "2020-11-07T21:30:54Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > It is one thing to shout it out here, it is another thing entirely to deface US Currency. Ooooo how scaaandalous! I’m clutching my pearls over defacing U.S. currency! It’s a small act of defiance. And a fully justified one. ---
**Author:** ![Darren\_Garrison](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/darren_garrison/32/92_2.png) [@Darren\_Garrison](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darren_Garrison)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2020, 1:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mississippi-voters-approve-new-state-flag/924870/76 "2020-11-08T01:14:39Z")
> [@What\_Exit](#): > > **Dr. Deth** , I am genuinely surprised the numbers in those polls are that high. I don’t mind the words but that is still a little depressing. Note that he lists polls from more than 15 years ago, in an America of yesteryear. Now we are flirting with a quarter of Americans being godless. It ain’t 90% any more. > **[The number of Americans with no religion rose 266% in three decades](https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-6886705/Is-America-Godless-number-people-no-religion-rose-266-three-decades.html)** > > People with no religion accounted for 23.1 percent of the U.S. population in 2018, to statistically tie with Catholics (23 percent) and Evangelicals (22.5 percent), according to the General Social Survey. ---
**Author:** ![jaycat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jaycat/32/3015_2.png) [@jaycat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jaycat)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2020, 1:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mississippi-voters-approve-new-state-flag/924870/77 "2020-11-08T01:37:55Z")
> [@Darren\_Garrison](#): > > Note that he lists polls from more than 15 years ago, in an America of yesteryear. Now we are flirting with a quarter of Americans being godless. It ain’t 90% any more. The common misapprehension that not believing in organized religion equals not believing in god. ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2020, 1:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mississippi-voters-approve-new-state-flag/924870/78 "2020-11-08T01:43:35Z")
> [@jaycat](#): > > > [@Darren\_Garrison](#): > > > > Note that he lists polls from more than 15 years ago, in an America of yesteryear. Now we are flirting with a quarter of Americans being godless. It ain’t 90% any more. > > The common misapprehension that not believing in organized religion equals not believing in god.  Sure, that’s not true, but it is a decent proxy to tell you that people are becoming less religious, and thus it is likely that they are less accepting of “in God we Trust.” Plus, as I mentioned, we were still in 2001 fervor at that time, the same type of fervor that got that slogan in the first place. When you have an enemy who has a different (or no) religion, that’s when people try to emphasize Christianity more. In other words, supporting “In God we Trust” was like saying “And not Allah,” even though Allah is literally the word Arabic Christians use for God. Allah was code for “that God which rewards suicide bombers with virgins in the afterlife.” ---
**Author:** ![DesertDog](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/desertdog/32/11503_2.png) [@DesertDog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DesertDog)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2020, 1:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mississippi-voters-approve-new-state-flag/924870/79 "2020-11-08T13:22:46Z")
> [@Slow\_Moving\_Vehicle](#): > > The twenty stars refer to Mississippi being the twentieth state to join the Union. The gold star at the top is comprised of diamonds, which apparently have symbolic significance for the Choctaw Nation. The articles I read didn’t say, but I’m guessing that the five diamonds also pay homage to the Five Civilized Tribes, two of which - the Choctaw and the Chickasaw - have their historic homes in Mississippi. Thanks for that. The missing note the asterisk was pointing to was _supposed_ to say the number of counties in the state was around 53 – I can’t be arsed to look it up again. A website I’d found when trying to determine the symbology said that the gold star on top is, indeed, composed of five diamonds representing the five Civilized Tribes. I kind of like it. ---
**Author:** ![DesertDog](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/desertdog/32/11503_2.png) [@DesertDog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DesertDog)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2020, 1:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mississippi-voters-approve-new-state-flag/924870/80 "2020-11-08T13:29:55Z")
> [@kitap](#): > > Many were unhappy that the Wisconsin flag could not be easily distinguished from other state flags, owing to its use of the most popular American design pattern—a blue field with a central state emblem. You can blame the Civil War for that one. A lot states would raise a regiment\* or three and say, “Great! Let’s send our boys off to war marching behind the state flag.” “We don’t have one.” They then slapped the state seal onto a flag of regimental blue and called it good. Some states even specified the proportions and shade of blue on the flag match the US Army’s specs for a regimental flag at the time. \*Regiment shares the same root for region – _regere_ in Old Latin, “to rule.” [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mississippi-voters-approve-new-state-flag/924870.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mississippi-voters-approve-new-state-flag/924870.md?page=5)