# Mississippi voters reject anti-abortion measure for fetus personhood **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [November 9, 2011, 3:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mississippi-voters-reject-anti-abortion-measure-for-fetus-personhood/602393 "2011-11-09T15:04:04Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Annie-Xmas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ecc23a/32.png) [@Annie-Xmas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Annie-Xmas)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2011, 3:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mississippi-voters-reject-anti-abortion-measure-for-fetus-personhood/602393/1 "2011-11-09T15:04:04Z")
[Cite](http://blogs.reuters.com/faithworld/2011/11/09/mississippi-voters-reject-anti-abortion-measure-for-fetus-personhood/) Way to go, Mississippi! ---
**Author:** ![ShelliBean](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f9ae1b/32.png) [@ShelliBean](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ShelliBean)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2011, 3:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mississippi-voters-reject-anti-abortion-measure-for-fetus-personhood/602393/2 "2011-11-09T15:08:46Z")
Whew! It was getting nasty toward the end there. I am short about 5 friends on FB, and can’t imagine we’ll be speaking again any time soon. I moved from MS about 6 months ago so I felt very connected to everyone going through it, but not a resident so was still stuck looking in from the outside. A major portion of my friends are part of the medical community so it was so frustrating to see these people that I know are good, smart people being shouted down by people who really had no idea what some of the terms they were using actually meant. Yay Mississippi, you actually got one. Even a blind dog finds a bone every once in a while… ---
**Author:** ![Anne\_Neville](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/b9e5f3/32.png) [@Anne\_Neville](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Anne_Neville)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2011, 3:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mississippi-voters-reject-anti-abortion-measure-for-fetus-personhood/602393/3 "2011-11-09T15:38:06Z")
Way to go, Mississippi! _There’s_ something I don’t get to say every day… ---
**Author:** ![RealityChuck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/realitychuck/32/195_2.png) [@RealityChuck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RealityChuck)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2011, 3:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mississippi-voters-reject-anti-abortion-measure-for-fetus-personhood/602393/4 "2011-11-09T15:40:23Z")
A great moment in fighting ignorance. The “fetus as human” is a minority view in the US, but they’re a very loud one, and it seemed quite possible the measure might become law. But lately there have been a lot of people pointing out the out how silly the law was. I think a final straw was when one of the proponents turned out to use in-vitro fertilization (banned by the proposal) in order to have children. ---
**Author:** ![phouka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/c5a1d2/32.png) [@phouka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/phouka)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2011, 8:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mississippi-voters-reject-anti-abortion-measure-for-fetus-personhood/602393/5 "2011-11-09T20:28:45Z")
Thank heavens. ---
**Author:** ![billfish678](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7bcc69/32.png) [@billfish678](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/billfish678)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2011, 8:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mississippi-voters-reject-anti-abortion-measure-for-fetus-personhood/602393/6 "2011-11-09T20:31:32Z")
I figured if worse came to worse they could just move all that abortion/fetus stuff onto floating buildings like they did the casinos… ---
**Author:** ![ShelliBean](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f9ae1b/32.png) [@ShelliBean](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ShelliBean)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2011, 9:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mississippi-voters-reject-anti-abortion-measure-for-fetus-personhood/602393/7 "2011-11-09T21:16:58Z")
**billfish678** - I sure do wish I had been quick enough to think of that when I was talking about it to fellow Mississippians. But you better believe that suggestion will come out next time a cousin or fellow former nursing student mentions it. 🙂 ETA - It was interesting to see how many people started out supporting this and came to say “My church is telling me this is what I should do but it doesn’t feel right. What do you think?” and I was pleasantly surprised how many people started coming out of the woodwork to support the whole “No on 26” movement. ---
**Author:** ![Rachellelogram](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rachellelogram/32/8689_2.png) [@Rachellelogram](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rachellelogram)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2011, 10:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mississippi-voters-reject-anti-abortion-measure-for-fetus-personhood/602393/8 "2011-11-09T22:35:51Z")
From the article in the OP: > [@](#): > > The measure would have banned abortion without exceptions for rape or incest victims. It also would have outlawed some types of birth control and infertility methods resulting in the loss of embryos. Why, exactly, are individual people allowed to have a direct vote on something this important? This is the kind of thing that the legislature (the MS house of representatives/senate) should debate about internally for a very VERY long time, with extensive debate from statisticians and doctors, before making it law. It shouldn’t be possible for Billy Bob and Martha Jo to sally on down from church to the courthouse and vote, _based on emotion,_ to let women who have ectopic pregnancies \*\*DIE \*\*instead of getting an abortion. What. The. Fuck is wrong with our legal system that this is allowed to happen?? ---
**Author:** ![lavenderviolet](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/cdc98d/32.png) [@lavenderviolet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lavenderviolet)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2011, 11:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mississippi-voters-reject-anti-abortion-measure-for-fetus-personhood/602393/9 "2011-11-09T23:46:34Z")
> [@RealityChuck](#): > > A great moment in fighting ignorance. The “fetus as human” is a minority view in the US, but they’re a very loud one, and it seemed quite possible the measure might become law. But lately there have been a lot of people pointing out the out how silly the law was. Fetuses created from human sperm and human eggs are not **human**? Ok, then what species are they? Of course, I know that what you actually meant was “personhood”, not humanity, but you may want to be careful about making that kind of misstatement when you’re saying that others are being ignorant. One of my big problems with the way that people debate abortion is that most abortion debates involve both sides being very ignorant and sloppy in their discussion of biology and fetal development. ---
**Author:** ![kayT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kayt/32/3633_2.png) [@kayT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kayT)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2011, 12:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mississippi-voters-reject-anti-abortion-measure-for-fetus-personhood/602393/10 "2011-11-10T00:16:32Z")
> [@rachelellogram](#): > > From the article in the OP:Why, exactly, are individual people allowed to have a direct vote on something this important? This is the kind of thing that the legislature (the MS house of representatives/senate) should debate about internally for a very VERY long time, with extensive debate from statisticians and doctors, before making it law. It shouldn’t be possible for Billy Bob and Martha Jo to sally on down from church to the courthouse and vote, _based on emotion,_ to let women who have ectopic pregnancies \*\*DIE \*\*instead of getting an abortion. > > What. The. Fuck is wrong with our legal system that this is allowed to happen?? Do you really want politicians making these decisions? I don’t. ---
**Author:** ![Cat\_Fight](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/90ced4/32.png) [@Cat\_Fight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cat_Fight)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2011, 12:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mississippi-voters-reject-anti-abortion-measure-for-fetus-personhood/602393/11 "2011-11-10T00:17:54Z")
[Sigh of relief] I know the slogan ‘Trust women’ sounds overly simplistic, but dammit… do it. I think, at least from what I read online, that towards the end some voters realized the very real consequences the legislation might have for them – bye bye birth control. ---
**Author:** ![PandaBear77](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/edb3f5/32.png) [@PandaBear77](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PandaBear77)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2011, 12:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mississippi-voters-reject-anti-abortion-measure-for-fetus-personhood/602393/12 "2011-11-10T00:58:33Z")
> [@rachelellogram](#): > > From the article in the OP:Why, exactly, are individual people allowed to have a direct vote on something this important? This is the kind of thing that the legislature (the MS house of representatives/senate) should debate about internally for a very VERY long time, with extensive debate from statisticians and doctors, before making it law. It shouldn’t be possible for Billy Bob and Martha Jo to sally on down from church to the courthouse and vote, _based on emotion,_ to let women who have ectopic pregnancies \*\*DIE \*\*instead of getting an abortion. > > What. The. Fuck is wrong with our legal system that this is allowed to happen?? Oh yes. Elected representatives never, ever vote based on emotions. Nor are they EVER swayed by things like lobbyists, bribery, blackmail, etc. :rolleyes: Seriously. Reread what you wrote. The concept of private citizens voting on “important” things is why we’re not a dictatorship. Whether _this_ particular issue at hand should have been put to a vote is another debate – but your statements are a little harrowing. Meanwhile, I’ve Googled and can’t find anything about the ectopic pregnancy part of Prop 26. I’m VERY pro-life, but forcing a woman to carry an ectopic pregnancy is ridiculous; it guarantees death for both mother and baby. I’ve seen several articles mention it, though, so I’m assuming it must be written in the Prop somewhere - does anyone have a link to the full text? ---
**Author:** ![Lord\_Feldon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lord_feldon/32/341_2.png) [@Lord\_Feldon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lord_Feldon)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2011, 1:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mississippi-voters-reject-anti-abortion-measure-for-fetus-personhood/602393/13 "2011-11-10T01:56:03Z")
> [@PandaBear77](#): > > The concept of private citizens voting on “important” things is why we’re not a dictatorship. No, it’s not. Binding referendums triggered by initiative petitions are very rare. The vast majority of functioning democracies do not have them. Even the majority of states in the USA don’t have them. ---
**Author:** ![Ann\_Onimous](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ea5d25/32.png) [@Ann\_Onimous](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ann_Onimous)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2011, 2:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mississippi-voters-reject-anti-abortion-measure-for-fetus-personhood/602393/14 "2011-11-10T02:01:22Z")
> [@PandaBear77](#): > > Meanwhile, I’ve Googled and can’t find anything about the ectopic pregnancy part of Prop 26. I’m VERY pro-life, but forcing a woman to carry an ectopic pregnancy is ridiculous; it guarantees death for both mother and baby. I’ve seen several articles mention it, though, so I’m assuming it must be written in the Prop somewhere - does anyone have a link to the full text? I can do that. Look [here](http://www.sos.ms.gov/links/elections/home/tab2/26text.pdf). It was so short, I can even paste it here. The measure would amend Article III of the Mississippi Constitution by adding a new Section 32 to read:[6] SECTION 33. Person defined. As used in this Article III of the state constitution, “The term ‘person’ or ‘persons’ shall include every human being from the moment of fertilization, cloning or the functional equivalent thereof." What we were afraid of is what this initiative did not say. The ones that supported I26 said they wanted to get rid of all abortions, including stemming from rape or incest: and stop the sale of any drug that would abort a fertilized egg, including RU-486 and methotrexate, which is used to treat ectopic pregnancies. Most of us also did not want to leave our lives or our daughter’s lives in the hands of politicians. It would not have forced a woman to carry an ectopic pregnancy to term: but without methotrexate, the only way to end an ectopic pregnancy is invasive surgery. And, believe it or not, some people were insisting that a woman could carry an ectopic pregnancy to term or that the baby had to die before surgery should be performed. Of course, we were also certain that this initiative would be struck down as unconstitutional soon enough because of Roe v. Wade. Most of you all know I am a Christian, and am fiercely pro-life, to the point that I do not believe in the death penalty: but I could not vote for this at all. And I am ashamed of the behavior of my Christian brothers and sisters during this whole thing. I am thrilled that it did not pass, and am proud as a Mississippian that we stood up to this. ETA: Wikipedia has a really good entry about this. You can find it [here](http://ballotpedia.org/wiki/index.php/Mississippi_Life_Begins_at_the_Moment_of_Fertilization_Amendment,_Initiative_26_%282011%29). ---
**Author:** ![Rachellelogram](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rachellelogram/32/8689_2.png) [@Rachellelogram](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rachellelogram)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2011, 2:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mississippi-voters-reject-anti-abortion-measure-for-fetus-personhood/602393/15 "2011-11-10T02:10:04Z")
> [@PandaBear77](#): > > Oh yes. Elected representatives never, ever vote based on emotions. Nor are they EVER swayed by things like lobbyists, bribery, blackmail, etc. :rolleyes: > > Seriously. Reread what you wrote. The concept of private citizens voting on “important” things is why we’re not a dictatorship. Whether _this_ particular issue at hand should have been put to a vote is another debate – but your statements are a little harrowing. Our country was fucking founded on a principle of _government_ checks and balances. \*The legislature is in place to legislate laws. \*“The people” are even more vastly uneducated than politicians, and cannot and should not **ever** be trusted with this power. If the legislature of MS had voted this drivel into law, then the judiciary would have smacked it down. At no point in time should common idiots be asked to directly outlaw _anything_. Seeing as that’s what this proposition was all about, I submit that propositions are fucking stupid and dangerous. And, as applies to the point I was making, **propositions are way more fucking stupid and dangerous than letting legislators legislate.** If legislators pass shitty legislation, they will be stricken down by the mighty hand of the judiciary, and can be voted out next term so it doesn’t happen again. If voters vote to pass shitty legislation, where’s our option to stop them from voting? We can’t make them leave the goddamn state. Fucking hell! ---
**Author:** ![Grrr](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/grrr/32/146_2.png) [@Grrr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grrr)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2011, 2:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mississippi-voters-reject-anti-abortion-measure-for-fetus-personhood/602393/16 "2011-11-10T02:42:23Z")
I’m a little disturbed that the vote was 60/40. I would have liked for that gap to be a little bigger. But you know what? A win is a win!! Yay, Mississippi!! . The only sad part is that this hasn’t taken the wind out of this organization’s sails. They plan to keep fighting the “good fight” by going to other states. :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![Ann\_Onimous](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ea5d25/32.png) [@Ann\_Onimous](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ann_Onimous)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2011, 2:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mississippi-voters-reject-anti-abortion-measure-for-fetus-personhood/602393/17 "2011-11-10T02:45:17Z")
> [@Shakes](#): > > The only sad part is that this hasn’t taken the wind out of this organization’s sails. They plan to keep fighting the “good fight” by going to other states. :rolleyes: And there are a lot of us here who are willing to help them fight it, too. I mean help fight against it. I realized what I typed didn’t sound right. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![suranyi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e36b37/32.png) [@suranyi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/suranyi)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2011, 4:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mississippi-voters-reject-anti-abortion-measure-for-fetus-personhood/602393/18 "2011-11-10T04:33:50Z")
> [@Shakes](#): > > I’m a little disturbed that the vote was 60/40. I would have liked for that gap to be a little bigger. But you know what? A win is a win!! > > Yay, Mississippi!! > . > The only sad part is that this hasn’t taken the wind out of this organization’s sails. They plan to keep fighting the “good fight” by going to other states. :rolleyes: 60/40 is a landslide victory by most election standards. You can’t get a much bigger win than that. ---
**Author:** ![suranyi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e36b37/32.png) [@suranyi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/suranyi)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2011, 4:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mississippi-voters-reject-anti-abortion-measure-for-fetus-personhood/602393/19 "2011-11-10T04:36:12Z")
> [@rachelellogram](#): > > Our country was fucking founded on a principle of _government_ checks and balances. \*The legislature is in place to legislate laws. \*“The people” are even more vastly uneducated than politicians, and cannot and should not **ever** be trusted with this power. > > If the legislature of MS had voted this drivel into law, then the judiciary would have smacked it down. At no point in time should common idiots be asked to directly outlaw _anything_. Seeing as that’s what this proposition was all about, I submit that propositions are fucking stupid and dangerous. And, as applies to the point I was making, **propositions are way more fucking stupid and dangerous than letting legislators legislate.** > > If legislators pass shitty legislation, they will be stricken down by the mighty hand of the judiciary, and can be voted out next term so it doesn’t happen again. If voters vote to pass shitty legislation, where’s our option to stop them from voting? We can’t make them leave the goddamn state. > > Fucking hell! The judiciary can strike down laws passed by proposition as well. It’s happened several times in California. ---
**Author:** ![Rachellelogram](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rachellelogram/32/8689_2.png) [@Rachellelogram](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rachellelogram)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2011, 5:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mississippi-voters-reject-anti-abortion-measure-for-fetus-personhood/602393/20 "2011-11-10T05:36:55Z")
> [@suranyi](#): > > The judiciary can strike down laws passed by proposition as well. It’s happened several times in California. Yes, but the operative point is that legislators are elected to freaking legislate, so they should be the ones legislating. The judiciary should not HAVE to strike down bullshit that stupid voters enact into law. No matter how swayable, reactionary, emotional, or otherwise unreliable politicians are at enacting laws, they are 100 times better at it than a group of their constituents. If only because they have more practice. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mississippi-voters-reject-anti-abortion-measure-for-fetus-personhood/602393.md?page=2)