# Missouri Arrest Deck Collapse Follow-up **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [September 5, 2026, 2:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/missouri-arrest-deck-collapse-follow-up/1032841 "2026-09-05T14:32:46Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![needscoffee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/needscoffee/32/1076_2.png) [@needscoffee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/needscoffee)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2026, 2:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/missouri-arrest-deck-collapse-follow-up/1032841/41 "2026-09-09T02:50:03Z")
> [@pkbites](#): > > Either way someone was always pissed off at these things. You didn’t have phones or radios to let them know as you gathered up people? ---
**Author:** ![pkbites](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pkbites/32/204_2.png) [@pkbites](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pkbites)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2026, 4:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/missouri-arrest-deck-collapse-follow-up/1032841/42 "2026-09-09T04:46:19Z")
> [@needscoffee](#): > > You didn’t have phones or radios to let them know as you gathered up people? Generally doesn’t work like that in a large county jail. You just show up. But agencies typically show up with one or 2, not 2 dozen. MPD would sometimes bring in an entire wagon. Dump them off and leave. Then if their ADR was messed up they’d have to come back. Meanwhile the subjects couldnt get processed until the Arrest and Detention Report was corrected. Completely clogged up the holding area. I got stuck working in the jail for 2 years. Miserable work. ---
**Author:** ![Nightaudit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/nightaudit/32/17181_2.png) [@Nightaudit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nightaudit)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2026, 4:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/missouri-arrest-deck-collapse-follow-up/1032841/43 "2026-09-14T16:42:33Z")
Just wondering have the lawsuits about who’s financially responsible for the injuries been filed yet… I can see the property owners insurance company telling the cops to f-off because they should have known that the deck was not going to support all that weight. ---
**Author:** ![hajario](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hajario/32/171_2.png) [@hajario](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hajario)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2026, 8:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/missouri-arrest-deck-collapse-follow-up/1032841/44 "2026-09-14T20:02:19Z")
The law doesn’t recognize “fuck off. I don’t like how you used my deck”. The only question is if it was built to code. I can’t imagine that an owner of a rental property with a deck not built to code isn’t liable in any situation. I briefly worked in construction design and any deck built to code should be able to support being fully loaded with large people. There is an outside possibility that a licensed contractor screwed up and the owner paid for a proper deck. ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2026, 12:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/missouri-arrest-deck-collapse-follow-up/1032841/45 "2026-09-15T00:20:11Z")
Code and licensed contractors & rural MO go together like fish & bicycles. ---
**Author:** ![ASL\_v2.0](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asl_v2.0/32/3525_2.png) [@ASL\_v2.0](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ASL_v2.0)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2026, 12:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/missouri-arrest-deck-collapse-follow-up/1032841/46 "2026-09-15T00:27:27Z")
> [@Nightaudit](#): > > the property owners insurance company You think they were insured? ---
**Author:** ![Spiderman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spiderman/32/230_2.png) [@Spiderman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spiderman)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2026, 3:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/missouri-arrest-deck-collapse-follow-up/1032841/47 "2026-09-15T15:27:59Z")
> [@LSLGuy](#): > > go together like fish & bicycles Amsterdam has professional [bike fishermen](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qrxfT5EQxgI)🙃 ---
**Author:** ![Crafter\_Man](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crafter_man/32/458_2.png) [@Crafter\_Man](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crafter_Man)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2026, 3:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/missouri-arrest-deck-collapse-follow-up/1032841/48 "2026-09-15T15:45:47Z")
> [@md-2000](#): > > If you are trying to locate and arrest a suspect with no history of violence, and you have enough people in the task force to collapse a deck - that’s too many people. It’s performance theatre not law enforcement. They don’t mention whether it took 9 people to locate and arrest the suspect later in the day. I’ve watched countless 1st Amendment Auditor videos where four to eight officers will show up for a… person recording video on a public sidewalk. Modern law enforcement is something I will never understand. ---
**Author:** ![Loach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/loach/32/350_2.png) [@Loach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loach)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2026, 1:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/missouri-arrest-deck-collapse-follow-up/1032841/49 "2026-09-16T01:06:55Z")
So what’s the magic number? ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2026, 1:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/missouri-arrest-deck-collapse-follow-up/1032841/50 "2026-09-16T01:13:38Z")
For a guy recording video, and likely following the law? Who at most might be trespassed, and thus fleeing would be an acceptable outcome? It really doesn’t seem like more than one is actually necessary. Not that it’s a hard boundary, if two or three showed up. Four to eight is clearly about intimidation. ---
**Author:** ![Loach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/loach/32/350_2.png) [@Loach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loach)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2026, 1:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/missouri-arrest-deck-collapse-follow-up/1032841/51 "2026-09-16T01:28:37Z")
Granted it was a bit of a trick question. There is no magic number. Every situation is different. Generally it’s better to have more people than you need instead of fewer. So-called auditors often do things to elicit a response. They rarely publish what they did before they get their response. And when you are watching the video you don’t know how the complaint came in and what information the officers have before they arrived. Dispatch rarely get calls stating nothing is happening. ---
**Author:** ![DPRK](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/4491bb/32.png) [@DPRK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DPRK)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2026, 10:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/missouri-arrest-deck-collapse-follow-up/1032841/52 "2026-09-16T10:51:00Z")
There is a current trend of repressing political demonstrations > **[Protest policing](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Protest_policing)** > > Protest policing or public order policing is part of a state’s response to political dissent and social movements. Police maintenance of public order during protest is an essential component of liberal democracy, with military response to protest being more common under authoritarian regimes. Australasian, European, and North American democratic states have all experienced increased surveillance of protest movements and more militarized protest policing since 1995 and through the first decades of... but that does not seem related to “1st Amendment Auditors” per se. One side of this is, how many cops do you need to maintain public order during political protest; the flip side is, for organizers of mass demonstrations, by how much do you need to outnumber the police to ensure that crackdowns or arrests are not a viable option. It is hard to give precise numbers, of course, but these are concepts that can be “factually” studied by politicla scientists; cf. also the “3.5% rule” for example. ---
**Author:** ![pkbites](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pkbites/32/204_2.png) [@pkbites](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pkbites)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2026, 1:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/missouri-arrest-deck-collapse-follow-up/1032841/53 "2026-09-16T13:45:42Z")
> [@Loach](#): > > Generally it’s better to have more people than you need instead of fewer. THIS! As I’ve said previously you take as many as are available to you. When you’re going to specifically make an arrest (and a felony arrest at that) it’s better to have too many officers around than not enough. Thankfully in the field advice isn’t taken from people online who have no experience nor knowledge in law enforcement. Easy for those to criticize who know not what they’re talking about. ---
**Author:** ![Pleonast](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pleonast/32/1183_2.png) [@Pleonast](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pleonast)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2026, 2:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/missouri-arrest-deck-collapse-follow-up/1032841/54 "2026-09-16T14:50:09Z")
> [@pkbites](#): > > When you’re going to specifically make an arrest (and a felony arrest at that) it’s better to have too many officers around than not enough. This is very true. But on the other hand, what’s the value added by extra manpower if there’s no plan on how to use the extra manpower? Someone needs to be responsible for the tactical safety of all the officers on the scene. And part of that is potentially unsafe conditions at the site. The local police union should be complaining up the chain of command for the lack of planning in this case. ---
**Author:** ![pkbites](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pkbites/32/204_2.png) [@pkbites](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pkbites)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2026, 4:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/missouri-arrest-deck-collapse-follow-up/1032841/55 "2026-09-16T16:49:46Z")
> [@Pleonast](#): > > The local police union should be complaining up the chain of command for the lack of planning in this case HTF would anyone know that shitbags stairway wouldn’t be safe before they went? And the U S. Marshalls aren’t represented by the local police union anyway This is a one time incident. It sucked but, oh well. ---
**Author:** ![md-2000](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9d8465/32.png) [@md-2000](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/md-2000)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2026, 5:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/missouri-arrest-deck-collapse-follow-up/1032841/56 "2026-09-16T17:00:48Z")
> [@Pleonast](#): > > But on the other hand, what’s the value added by extra manpower if there’s no plan on how to use the extra manpower? Even _Chicago PD_ figured out, after a few seasons, to cover the back door when they go to arrest a suspect. You have to wonder whether (a) these guys even thought about covering other entrances and (b) if so, how many more people covering them instead of on the deck… ---
**Author:** ![Pleonast](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pleonast/32/1183_2.png) [@Pleonast](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pleonast)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2026, 6:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/missouri-arrest-deck-collapse-follow-up/1032841/57 "2026-09-16T18:02:44Z")
> [@pkbites](#): > > HTF would anyone know that shitbags stairway wouldn’t be safe before they went? Is no one responsible for knowing the site? How hard is it a look at the Google overhead, a causal drive-by surveille, and then figuring out who goes where? This can’t be the first time a criminal is at a crappy location that could be structurally unsound or a fire hazard or a malicious trap. Having a bunch of officers in close proximity is asking for trouble. What if the criminal had tossed a flashbang out the window? It’s like the rules for rescue: don’t become the next victim when trying to save someone. More manpower is only helpful if everyone has a planned role to fulfill. ---
**Author:** ![Nightaudit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/nightaudit/32/17181_2.png) [@Nightaudit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nightaudit)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2026, 10:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/missouri-arrest-deck-collapse-follow-up/1032841/58 "2026-09-16T22:57:37Z")
Unfortunately not. ---
**Author:** ![TokyoBayer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tokyobayer/32/13989_2.png) [@TokyoBayer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TokyoBayer)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2026, 12:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/missouri-arrest-deck-collapse-follow-up/1032841/59 "2026-09-17T00:55:48Z")
> [@Pleonast](#): > > What if the criminal had tossed a flashbang out the window? If they had only gone in with two (or fill in the number) officers, and the criminal had tossed a flashbang, then you would have criticized them for not having enough. > The registry lists the offense date as March 16, 2020, when Munoz was 20 years old, and identifies the victim as a girl between the ages of 9 and 13. And: > His most recent offense is listed as possession of child pornography involving more than 20 images or one film or video. Hell, send in a couple dozen officers. ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2026, 2:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/missouri-arrest-deck-collapse-follow-up/1032841/60 "2026-09-17T02:29:18Z")
Why? Are you hoping for police violence = vigilante + official impunity “justice” that’s anything but? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/missouri-arrest-deck-collapse-follow-up/1032841.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/missouri-arrest-deck-collapse-follow-up/1032841.md?page=4)