# Missouri officially bans gay marriage **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [August 4, 2004, 2:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/missouri-officially-bans-gay-marriage/258291 "2004-08-04T14:33:56Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Crunchy\_Frog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ebca7d/32.png) [@Crunchy\_Frog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crunchy_Frog)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2004, 2:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/missouri-officially-bans-gay-marriage/258291/1 "2004-08-04T14:33:56Z")
[Hopefully this link works](http://www.stltoday.com/stltoday/news/stories.nsf/News/Election+2004/65A113EBAB33534486256EE60011FE6D?OpenDocument&Headline=Gay+marriage+ban+gets+voter+OK) > [@](#): > > Missouri voters gave resounding approval to an amendment to the state constitution banning gay marriage, putting the nation on notice that similar proposed bans in other states could be difficult to defeat. > > The Missouri Constitution will now state that "to be valid and recognized in this state a marriage shall exist only between a man and a woman.’’ I live in St. Louis, MO and went out of my way specifically to vote against this amendment, but apparently Missouri is still too full of Bible-thumping homophobic rednecks who are for some reason threatened by the idea of two members of the same sex being legally married. > [@](#): > > "I think that Missouri values have spoken,’’ said Hartzler, a spokeswoman for the Coalition to Protect Marriage in Missouri. “This is a message of the heart, and here in the Heartland, we value marriage.” We value marriage here in Missouri? Then where’s the amendment to outlaw divorce if marriage is so damn special. Care to quote the divorce rate in Missouri? Marriage isn’t any more special here than anywhere else. How the FUCK does two men or two women getting legally married de-value marriage? I just cannot see the logic here and I’m ashamed of my state for letting this bullshit become part of the state’s constitution. The vote was in favor of the ban by a margin of 2-1. I’m disappointed (especially since I went out of my way specifically to vote on this issue and to vote in favor of the gambling issue - which also lost yesterday, just not my day for voting) and ashamed that this state is still so fucking threatened by homosexuality. If two men or women want to be married, who’s getting hurt there? Where’s the fucking crime? How does that weaken a marriage between a man and woman? I just don’t understand the fear of homosexual marriages. For me, the state of Missouri officially sucks ass today. ---
**Author:** ![yojimbo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/yojimbo/32/232_2.png) [@yojimbo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yojimbo)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2004, 2:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/missouri-officially-bans-gay-marriage/258291/2 "2004-08-04T14:43:43Z")
I feel you’re pain. In my case it’s a majority of Catholic fucknuts and politicians stopping it in my country. Really pisses me off. ---
**Author:** ![yojimbo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/yojimbo/32/232_2.png) [@yojimbo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yojimbo)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2004, 2:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/missouri-officially-bans-gay-marriage/258291/3 "2004-08-04T14:44:55Z")
**your** :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![auntie\_em](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/5e9695/32.png) [@auntie\_em](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/auntie_em)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2004, 3:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/missouri-officially-bans-gay-marriage/258291/4 "2004-08-04T15:02:27Z")
> [@Crunchy Frog](#): > > I went out of my way specifically to vote on this issue . . . Me, too, but honestly, I knew it wouldn’t work; I just did it on the gazillionth-of-a-millionth-of-a-percent chance that the news reports this morning would all say, “Gay Marriage Ban Wins by One Vote” and I’d be kicking myself for not voting. But I, too, am disappointed, and surprised by the margin! I read a comic strip (can’t remember which one) that said it best: “Gay marriage doesn’t threaten the sanctity of my marriage. Good-looking straight women do.” (Or something like that.) ---
**Author:** ![Unregistered\_Bull](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/3da27b/32.png) [@Unregistered\_Bull](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Unregistered_Bull)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2004, 3:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/missouri-officially-bans-gay-marriage/258291/5 "2004-08-04T15:07:56Z")
Why use ‘redneck’ as a slur? I’m sure that many opposers of gay marriage are cityfied folks. I don’t believe that I have ever ran into a pro-gay marriage Hispanic or Black person either. Besides regardless of religion, ethnicity, race, or politics, homosexuality is not well thought of in most areas. And with the dismal record of people not appreciating ‘true freedom’ in the US (which probably also includes the majority of gay marriage advocates too), this is nothing to not be expected. ---
**Author:** ![auntie\_em](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/5e9695/32.png) [@auntie\_em](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/auntie_em)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2004, 3:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/missouri-officially-bans-gay-marriage/258291/6 "2004-08-04T15:13:05Z")
> [@Machetero](#): > > I don’t believe that I have ever ran into a pro-gay marriage . . . Black person either. _Bump_ Oops. Excuse me. Wasn’t looking where I was going. ---
**Author:** ![GaWd](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/f08c70/32.png) [@GaWd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GaWd)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2004, 3:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/missouri-officially-bans-gay-marriage/258291/7 "2004-08-04T15:21:20Z")
Machetero, you’ve _ **never** _ met a pro-gay marriage person before? I find that awfully hard to believe with a near 50% approval rating. You have internet access, so you can’t be too much of a bumpkin. Where is this mythical place where no one supports SSM? Sam ---
**Author:** ![Unregistered\_Bull](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/3da27b/32.png) [@Unregistered\_Bull](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Unregistered_Bull)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2004, 3:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/missouri-officially-bans-gay-marriage/258291/8 "2004-08-04T15:25:27Z")
> [@auntie em](#): > > _Bump_ > > Oops. Excuse me. Wasn’t looking where I was going. In real life. The internet doesn’t count. ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Moto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9de0a6/32.png) [@Mr.Moto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Moto)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2004, 3:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/missouri-officially-bans-gay-marriage/258291/9 "2004-08-04T15:30:47Z")
Why is anybody surprised at the result, or the margin? Gay marriage is a wrenching social change, and anybody who thinks otherwise is kidding themselves. Left to a vote, it will never pass. The only way it can be imposed on the people is be judicial fiat, and that breeds resentment among many, many people. It is a mistake to think that just because something is possible, that it is immediately desirable. There needs to be some groundwork laid before gay marriage can ever work. And even then, it might never be called marriage here in a legal sense. The word has too many cultural connotations. It has now come to pass that conservatives like William F. Buckley and Charles Colson are advocating civil union legislation. Civil unions immediately confer benefits not only to gay couples, but to other households that aren’t united in marriage. They can be used as an important social safety net, and to keep families together. Many Americans, believers as they are in basic fairness, can get behind them. The civil rights movement advocated taking small victories while keeping their eyes on the horizon. The gay rights movement would do well to follow this example. Civil unions may seem an unsatisfying half step, but political compromise never entirely satisfies. ---
**Author:** ![auntie\_em](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/5e9695/32.png) [@auntie\_em](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/auntie_em)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2004, 3:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/missouri-officially-bans-gay-marriage/258291/10 "2004-08-04T15:31:20Z")
> [@Machetero](#): > > In real life. The internet doesn’t count. Why not? I mean, I _am_ a real person, and I’m really Black, I swear! I’m not a 13-year-old White boy from London posing as a Black Woman from Missouri! Dude, like I could ever pull that off. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Crunchy\_Frog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ebca7d/32.png) [@Crunchy\_Frog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crunchy_Frog)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2004, 3:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/missouri-officially-bans-gay-marriage/258291/11 "2004-08-04T15:32:16Z")
> [@Machetero](#): > > Why use ‘redneck’ as a slur? I’m sure that many opposers of gay marriage are cityfied folks. Yeah, cuz let’s focus on this instead of the actual subject of the OP… :rolleyes: I used “redneck” as generalization. It can include rural residents, city residents, suburanites, etc. Not all anti-gay marriage people are Bible-thumpers either, I’m sure, but let’s jump on the redneck comment. So… I’ll just admit that all generalizations are wrong and let’s move on then, m’kay? > [@](#): > > I don’t believe that I have ever ran into a pro-gay marriage Hispanic or Black person either. Yeah, except for perhaps the gay Hispanics and gay black people for starters. I’m not following your point here. Sure every group will have its supporters and detractors on this issue, but in Missouri what group do you think pushed this across at a ratio of 2 to 1? I’m going with the generalization of the redneck (which can be from the city, suburbs, or rural MO) Bible-thumpers screaming about their ‘values’ on this one. As for it not being expected, I was just hoping a llittle too much about this one I guess (and the gambling one which got defeated, still debating if I want to rant about that too). ---
**Author:** ![Unregistered\_Bull](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/3da27b/32.png) [@Unregistered\_Bull](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Unregistered_Bull)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2004, 3:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/missouri-officially-bans-gay-marriage/258291/12 "2004-08-04T15:33:20Z")
> [@GaWd](#): > > Machetero, you’ve _ **never** _ met a pro-gay marriage person before? I find that awfully hard to believe with a near 50% approval rating. You have internet access, so you can’t be too much of a bumpkin. Where is this mythical place where no one supports SSM? > > Sam 50%? How close was the Missouri vote? Again, the internet isn’t real life. I’m sure that there are gay marriage supporters out there. None wear it their sleave. It’s probably something like my lack of religous belief. They keep quiet about it because most folks will stigmatize them. ---
**Author:** ![Mockingbird](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/c68b51/32.png) [@Mockingbird](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mockingbird)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2004, 3:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/missouri-officially-bans-gay-marriage/258291/13 "2004-08-04T15:38:45Z")
> [@Machetero](#): > > Why use ‘redneck’ as a slur? I’m sure that many opposers of gay marriage are cityfied folks. I don’t believe that I have ever ran into a pro-gay marriage Hispanic or Black person either. Wow. Those gay and lesbian black and hispanic people I know must not count. Nor the black and hispanic straight people I’ve known who are against bigotry. How sad for you that you’ve missed out and only have met so few hispanic and black people. ---
**Author:** ![SolGrundy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bbce88/32.png) [@SolGrundy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SolGrundy)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2004, 3:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/missouri-officially-bans-gay-marriage/258291/14 "2004-08-04T15:40:53Z")
I was surprised by this article; not surprised at the vote (unfortunately), but by what I found the most offensive. It wasn’t the woman from the “Coalition to Protect Marriage” who used talk about the “Heartland” in order to justify denying people their rights. Instead, it was this guy: > [@](#): > > At the polls, many voters like St. Louis firefighter Steve Pappageorge said they turned out specifically to make a statement against both gay marriage and gambling. > > ``I guess I’m a little old-fashioned on that kind of thing,’’ said Pappageorge., who voted for the gay marriage ban. “Aw, hyuck! I guess I don’t mean nothin’ by it; I’m jus’ a good ole-fashioned guy who wants to make a statement that them perverts don’t have _real_ relationships and don’t deserve the same rights that everyone of us has because we’re livin’ our lives the _right_ way.” There are always going to be people like Vicky Hartzler, who for whatever reason feel so threatened by other people’s attempts to find happiness that they’ll do anything in their power to stop it. But their crap will only work as long as there are enough people who think like this guy, who will casually vote to deny people their rights and not see any problem with it. ---
**Author:** ![Mockingbird](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/c68b51/32.png) [@Mockingbird](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mockingbird)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2004, 3:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/missouri-officially-bans-gay-marriage/258291/15 "2004-08-04T15:41:29Z")
> [@auntie em](#): > > Why not? I mean, I _am_ a real person, and I’m really Black, I swear! I’m not a 13-year-old White boy from London posing as a Black Woman from Missouri! Dude, like I could ever pull that off. > 😉 Well, _I am_ a 13-year-old Black girl posing as a 33 year old Gay White Male. Halle Berry ain’t got nothin’ on me! 😉😛😃 ---
**Author:** ![Unregistered\_Bull](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/3da27b/32.png) [@Unregistered\_Bull](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Unregistered_Bull)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2004, 3:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/missouri-officially-bans-gay-marriage/258291/16 "2004-08-04T15:44:29Z")
> [@Crunchy Frog](#): > > Yeah, cuz let’s focus on this instead of the actual subject of the OP… :rolleyes: So if a State or County or City with mostly Hispanics voted against (or had poll results against) Gay Marriage, then using “greaser” or “spic” would be fine? ---
**Author:** ![Mockingbird](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/c68b51/32.png) [@Mockingbird](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mockingbird)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2004, 3:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/missouri-officially-bans-gay-marriage/258291/17 "2004-08-04T15:44:40Z")
> [@Machetero](#): > > 50%? How close was the Missouri vote? Again, the internet isn’t real life. I’m sure that there are gay marriage supporters out there. None wear it their sleave. It’s probably something like my lack of religous belief. They keep quiet about it because most folks will stigmatize them. You really must have a limited circle of people around you. I know plenty of straight men and women, married and single, who aren’t quiet or afraid of stigmatization over their refusal to tolerate bigotry or bigots. ---
**Author:** ![Unregistered\_Bull](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/3da27b/32.png) [@Unregistered\_Bull](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Unregistered_Bull)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2004, 3:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/missouri-officially-bans-gay-marriage/258291/18 "2004-08-04T15:47:53Z")
> [@Mockingbird](#): > > Wow. Those gay and lesbian black and hispanic people I know must not count. Nor the black and hispanic straight people I’ve known who are against bigotry. > > How sad for you that you’ve missed out and only have met so few hispanic and black people. I was arguing about bigotry being used in the first post against whites of a rural background. ---
**Author:** ![Unregistered\_Bull](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/3da27b/32.png) [@Unregistered\_Bull](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Unregistered_Bull)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2004, 3:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/missouri-officially-bans-gay-marriage/258291/19 "2004-08-04T15:49:59Z")
> [@Mockingbird](#): > > You really must have a limited circle of people around you. I know plenty of straight men and women, married and single, who aren’t quiet or afraid of stigmatization over their refusal to tolerate bigotry or bigots. Do they stand out against using slurs against rural whites? Or, like the OP, are they hypocritical? ---
**Author:** ![GaryM](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/garym/32/241_2.png) [@GaryM](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GaryM)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2004, 3:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/missouri-officially-bans-gay-marriage/258291/20 "2004-08-04T15:53:38Z")
I’m in Missouri and I’ll admit that at first was in favor of the amendment. But upon further thought, something the majority of folks in this state apparently didn’t do, realized that it wouldn’t affect me if gay folks wanted to, and could, get marrried. Not my business at all. Might be a minor inpact to employers due to some changes in insurance programs. Big deal! I voted against the amendment yesterday and was also disapointed, but not suprised, by the margin by which it passed. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/missouri-officially-bans-gay-marriage/258291.md?page=2)