# Missouri vs. Missoura **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [June 6, 2003, 7:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/missouri-vs-missoura/180155 "2003-06-06T19:31:00Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![I\_can\_t\_believe\_that\_s\_butter](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/8edcca/32.png) [@I\_can\_t\_believe\_that\_s\_butter](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/I_can_t_believe_that_s_butter)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2003, 11:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/missouri-vs-missoura/180155/21 "2003-06-08T23:27:36Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by slipster \* > \*\*By the way, it is my observation that well-spoken people who are actually _from_ Louisville pronounce the name of their city with a short “i” as in “hit” or “his”; “loo-i-vil”. \*\* This seems to be the “correct” pronunciation; I hear broadcasters use it as well. I used to say “Lou-ee-vil” until a friend came back from a spontaneous roadtrip (another story) with a female friend of his (yet another story) who had a relation in Louisville. My friend asked how long the relation had been in lou-ee-vil, and was promptly corrected. ---
**Author:** ![i\_like\_bacon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/54ee81/32.png) [@i\_like\_bacon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/i_like_bacon)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2003, 11:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/missouri-vs-missoura/180155/22 "2003-06-08T23:37:03Z")
\*\*Most people say New York, Wisconsin, Minnesota. Locals say New Yawk, Wiscawnson, Minnesootuh, doncha know, ya you betcha, oofta. \*\* [/QUOTE] ya shure then 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Raindog\_STL](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/edb3f5/32.png) [@Raindog\_STL](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Raindog_STL)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2011, 6:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/missouri-vs-missoura/180155/23 "2011-02-12T18:18:44Z")
> [@Markxxx](#): > > I have noticed a similar phenomenon with Saint Louis. The older people and southerners say “saint lew-ee” while younger folk say “saint lew-is” > > Funny but I have never heard anyone say “lew-is-ville” it is always “lew-ee-ville” as in Kentucky - Even funnier? I’ve never heard ANYONE from Louisville, KY call it anything other than “lew-ah-ville”. This ties quite nicely into this thread about Missour-ee vs. Missour-ah. Also, just to clarify for others who may not be aware: there is NO town in Alabama called “MOBIL”. It is “mo-BEEL.” As in, automobile. Etymologically speaking (which is a funny phrase, btw) — a lot of these dialectal differences and colloquialisms have more to do with the original ethnicity and cultures (and yes, language) of the people who originally colonized and then later, pushed outward into the various wilds (plains, hills, valleys, mountains). English spoken with the accent of the immigrants and their descendants… some of which became watered down over time as their children married into other families, while others were insulated by the isolation of the hills they settled into. But largely, ALL of the “American English” accents are variances of English, Scottish, Irish, German, Dutch, French, Spanish, etc… blended, mixed… and then, finally… held in place as our populations stabilized. It will take much longer for all of our languages and dialects to become fully homogenized. But “Yankee American” is not going to be the standard, y’all. Try Spanglish. lol It’s just a guess. I’ve seen a lot of negative comments regarding how people who say “this” or talk “that” way are somehow just… lower in status. This attitude is common all over the world. Many Germans believe their southern neighbors in Bavaria who speak a dialect of German called Schwabish are ignorant also. Your accent or dialect once prevented you from traveling freely in China. English speaking people from the UK sometimes consider any other accents (Welsh, Cornish, etc) to indicate a lack of education or class… and people all over the U.S. mistakenly believe they are superior in some way because of the way they speak in comparison to others. That is brilliant logic (I say with sarcasm) and, in my opinion, in diametric opposition to one the basic American Ideals. But you know, hey, whatever. I’m just bored on a Saturday. I’m not even supposed to BE here… 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Hennessy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/a9a28c/32.png) [@Hennessy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hennessy)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2011, 6:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/missouri-vs-missoura/180155/24 "2011-02-12T18:36:34Z")
Show me 7 I’ll show you 8… How about good ol’ hwy 44? I’ve heard that some people from before a certain year pronounce 44 differently than most people today. Although I forgot the difference I doubt it was correct vs fo-ty-fo. ---
**Author:** ![Snarky\_Kong](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a183cd/32.png) [@Snarky\_Kong](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snarky_Kong)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2011, 6:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/missouri-vs-missoura/180155/25 "2011-02-12T18:42:53Z")
> [@Johanna](#): > > St. Louis has always been St. Loui **s** with an **s** to the natives, and no one says “St. Looey” except for Baba Looey (a cartoon character) and outsiders from places like Chicago who don’t know how to pronounce it. I’ve never heard of anybody in Chicago that thinks it’s pronounced St. Looey. They’ll say it, but it’s a joke, it’s not how they actually pronounce it. It’s a nickname like Chi-town. ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2011, 10:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/missouri-vs-missoura/180155/26 "2011-02-12T22:43:24Z")
> [@slipster](#): > > Neither are the correct pronciations of Arkansas, Illinois and **Iowa** phonetic. It’s not? How’s it supposed to be pronounced? ---
**Author:** ![Avumede](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/avumede/32/7235_2.png) [@Avumede](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Avumede)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2011, 2:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/missouri-vs-missoura/180155/27 "2011-02-13T02:18:40Z")
> [@RickJay](#): > > It’s not? How’s it supposed to be pronounced? You pronounce it already like it’s supposed to be pronounced. But if you never heard of it before, you’d probably pronounce it yo-wah. That’s what I’m guessing anyway. ---
**Author:** ![Noel\_Prosequi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/b19c9b/32.png) [@Noel\_Prosequi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Noel_Prosequi)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2011, 2:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/missouri-vs-missoura/180155/28 "2011-02-13T02:47:58Z")
> [@slipster](#): > > The composer of the original song had meant the name to be pronounced “St. Louis”. When the song is sung in its entirety, there is an oppening passage which gives context to the remainder of the verses. The song is about a woman writing to her estanged husband in hopes of affecting a reconciliation. She tells him to meet her in St. Louis if he wishes to save their marriage. His name is “Louis”, hence, “Meet Me in St. Louis, Louis”. Had the composer wished to have had the husband addressed as Louie, and the song pronouced otherwise, he would have written “Meet Me in St. Louie, Louie”. I don’t doubt you are correct as to the pronunciation of St. Louis by locals, but I don’t get the reasoning here about the song. The name of the French kings is typically pronounced “Lewee”, and so many people confronted with the name in less than regal circumstances still pronounce it thus. Hence out-of-towners saying Lewee when locals don’t. But many Americans with that name will pronounce it Lewis (as apparently Satchmo did). However a given individual is likely to be consistent. So “meet me in St Louis, Louis” will “rhyme” as long as one is consistent, no matter whether one adopts the French king pronunciation or the Satchmo version. I am not seeing how your argument advances one version of the song-writer’s intention over another. I am not American, so I may well be missing something here. If I am, please enlighten me. ---
**Author:** ![Peremensoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ce7236/32.png) [@Peremensoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peremensoe)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2011, 3:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/missouri-vs-missoura/180155/29 "2011-02-13T03:01:34Z")
> [@Avumede](#): > > But if you never heard of it before, you’d probably pronounce it yo-wah. Not if you were versed in Greek mythology. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2011, 3:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/missouri-vs-missoura/180155/30 "2011-02-13T03:06:13Z")
Weren’t they still speaking Old English way back in 2003? ---
**Author:** ![Docta\_G](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/2bfe46/32.png) [@Docta\_G](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Docta_G)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2011, 3:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/missouri-vs-missoura/180155/31 "2011-02-13T03:13:07Z")
Isn’t “Missouri” an old Indian word that means, “just like Iowa”? ---
**Author:** ![Argent\_Towers](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e8c25b/32.png) [@Argent\_Towers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Argent_Towers)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2011, 3:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/missouri-vs-missoura/180155/32 "2011-02-13T03:36:40Z")
There’s a gentleman at my Masonic lodge (at one point he was the Indiana Grand Master, or Master of the Grand Lodge of Indiana.) A few months ago he gave us an interesting speech at a dinner, and during this speech he referred to Cincinnati several times. Except he pronounced it “Cincinnata.” ---
**Author:** ![Bytegeist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/9dc877/32.png) [@Bytegeist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bytegeist)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2011, 3:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/missouri-vs-missoura/180155/33 "2011-02-13T03:51:30Z")
> [@Turbo\_Dog](#): > > It’s an accent thing. Most people say New York, Wisconsin, Minnesota. Locals say New Yawk, **Wiscawnson** , … I would say the locals’ pronunciation of “Wisconsin” is more like “Wes-CAN-sin”. In the upper Midwest, words like “cat” and “cot” are almost homonyms — or at least it can seem that way to outsiders. ---
**Author:** ![Darth\_Panda](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ee7513/32.png) [@Darth\_Panda](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darth_Panda)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2011, 4:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/missouri-vs-missoura/180155/34 "2011-02-13T04:41:23Z")
Seriously, non one’s making a Mizombie vs. Mizombah reference? ---
**Author:** ![Hennessy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/a9a28c/32.png) [@Hennessy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hennessy)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2011, 4:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/missouri-vs-missoura/180155/35 "2011-02-13T04:44:50Z")
Nah, it gets old ---
**Author:** ![foolsguinea](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foolsguinea/32/14751_2.png) [@foolsguinea](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/foolsguinea)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2011, 4:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/missouri-vs-missoura/180155/36 "2011-02-13T04:58:52Z")
:sigh: Such disinformation in this thread. a) People who say “Saint Louis” in French are probably Mark Twain fans. He mentioned riverboat crews using that pronunciation, in a book that’s been in print for a very long time. b) I don’t think anything in RealityChuck’s post is reality. We say |mə zʊ rə| instead of |mɪ zʊ ri| for the same reason one says |ɪn di æn ə| instead of |ɪn di æn ɑ|. It’s a schwa. In fact, one would be doing well to make it all schwas if you want to sound local. ---
**Author:** ![Peremensoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ce7236/32.png) [@Peremensoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peremensoe)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2011, 5:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/missouri-vs-missoura/180155/37 "2011-02-13T05:00:30Z")
> [@foolsguinea](#): > > b) I don’t anything in RealityChuck’s post is reality. I don’t so either. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2011, 5:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/missouri-vs-missoura/180155/38 "2011-02-13T05:07:50Z")
> [@Raindog\_STL](#): > > - Even funnier? I’ve never heard ANYONE from Louisville, KY call it anything other than “lew-ah-ville”… When I was there, just about everyone I heard pronounced it “LOO vil” or “Lovel.” And New Orleans was pronounced by its natives “Nawlins” more often than not. ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2011, 5:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/missouri-vs-missoura/180155/39 "2011-02-13T05:10:50Z")
> [@Avumede](#): > > You pronounce it already like it’s supposed to be pronounced. But if you never heard of it before, you’d probably pronounce it yo-wah. That’s what I’m guessing anyway. I don’t think so. I think if an average English speaker came across the word “Iowa,” with no previous knowledge of it, they’d happen upon the right pronunciation, if only by analogy to the word “iota” or “iodine” or "or “Ionian,” etc. I can maybe see “EE-oh-wah” if somebody is more European language inclined, but not “yo-wah.” ---
**Author:** ![JBDivmstr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/b4bc9f/32.png) [@JBDivmstr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JBDivmstr)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2011, 2:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/missouri-vs-missoura/180155/40 "2011-02-13T14:35:49Z")
> [@pulykamell](#): > > I don’t think so. I think if an average English speaker came across the word “Iowa,” with no previous knowledge of it, they’d happen upon the right pronunciation, if only by analogy to the word “iota” or “iodine” or "or “Ionian,” etc. I can maybe see “EE-oh-wah” if somebody is more European language inclined, but not “yo-wah.” Not trying to nitpick, BUT… If I remember my “basic” grammar lessons correctly… _proper_ nouns, are not subject to “phonetic” pronunciation rules. There is a small town just south of Houston (Texas) spelled Iowa, it is universally (locally, that is) pronounced “eye-oh-way”. Weird, huh? To sum it up, (at least, IMHO) pronunciation is usually irrelevant, as long as one is polite, as refers to WHAT, is being SAID. I may be wrong, but, y’ know… Just sayin’… [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/missouri-vs-missoura/180155.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/missouri-vs-missoura/180155.md?page=3)