# Misunderstood plurals, or possibly just weird linguistic stuffs
**URL:** https://boards.straightdope.com/t/misunderstood-plurals-or-possibly-just-weird-linguistic-stuffs/972778
**Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share
**Created:** [October 5, 2022, 8:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/misunderstood-plurals-or-possibly-just-weird-linguistic-stuffs/972778 "2022-10-05T20:03:18Z")
**Posts on this page:** 20
**Page:** 1
### Author:  [@naita](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/naita)
#### Post date: [October 5, 2022, 8:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/misunderstood-plurals-or-possibly-just-weird-linguistic-stuffs/972778/1 "2022-10-05T20:03:18Z")
The recent tread about oxen made me want to post about an issue I had recently listening to a podcast that involved those magnificent beasts the aurochs. Unfortunately the podcasters failed to realize “ochs” here is just German for ox, and kept talking about “the auroch”. This went on for so long I eventually decided the best thing I could do was to accept “ock” as the singular for “ox”.
And in a completely different vein:
Norwegian has well established “hyperfrenched” pronunciations of loan words from French. Pommes frittes are _pom free_, Bearnaise is _bearnay_, entrecote is _entrecaw_. (Extremely simplified translitteration of Norwegian pronunciations.) This allows for a lot of friction between the various combinations of people who do or don’t pronounce it these ways and who do or do not enjoy dying on prescriptivist hills.
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### Author:  [@DPRK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DPRK)
#### Post date: [October 5, 2022, 8:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/misunderstood-plurals-or-possibly-just-weird-linguistic-stuffs/972778/2 "2022-10-05T20:24:36Z")
There are certainly fake singular nouns constructed by mistaken back-formation from the same or a different language. I am sure people will be along to think of some good examples; things along the lines of “chupacabra” or “pea”.
Or are you asking whether it is more pretentious to try (and fail!) to A-ify a word borrowed from language B, let us say French, or pronounce it as in French? I think the former sounds worse, but maybe you can find a way of saying “sauce from Béarn” or “fried potatoes” in “pure” Norwegian?
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### Author:  [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)
#### Post date: [October 5, 2022, 8:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/misunderstood-plurals-or-possibly-just-weird-linguistic-stuffs/972778/3 "2022-10-05T20:30:56Z")
> [@DPRK](#):
>
> I am sure people will be along to think of some good examples; things along the lines of “chupacabra” or “pea”.
_Gyro_ for _gyros_ comes to mind. _Gyros_ is already singular. Much rarer, I’ve heard the singular _kudo_ for _kudos_. Happens the other way, too. _Pierogi_ is already plural, but used as the singular in English. _Blini_ is also already plural from _blin_.
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### Author:  [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)
#### Post date: [October 5, 2022, 8:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/misunderstood-plurals-or-possibly-just-weird-linguistic-stuffs/972778/4 "2022-10-05T20:33:04Z")
The English word “children” is already multiply-pluralized: “childer” was a plural of “child”, and then that got further pluralized with the then-typical -en ending. And it might happen again: “childrens” is common in some dialects.
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### Author:  [@naita](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/naita)
#### Post date: [October 5, 2022, 8:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/misunderstood-plurals-or-possibly-just-weird-linguistic-stuffs/972778/5 "2022-10-05T20:34:29Z")
> [@DPRK](#):
>
> There are certainly fake singular nouns constructed by mistaken back-formation from the same or a different language. I am sure people will be along to think of some good examples; things along the lines of “chupacabra” or “pea”.
I’ve heard the “pea” thing before, but my mind cannot hold on to it. It just doesn’t make sense. 😃
And I had no idea “Chupacabra” was a misunderstood singular! Neat!
> [@DPRK](#):
>
> Or are you asking whether it is more pretentious to try (and fail!) to A-ify a word borrowed from language B, let us say French, or pronounce it as in French? I think the former sounds worse, but maybe you can find a way of saying “sauce from Béarn” or “fried potatoes” in “pure” Norwegian?
I’m not really asking anything. Just stating a fact about Norwegian pronunciation of those words. Most of the people “mispronouncing” them aren’t trying to be pretentious, it’s just the pronunciation they’ve learned. I think the best argument against it, though even that is a weak one, is that it primes you to have an even harder time learning French than being a Norwegian speaker already does.
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### Author:  [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)
#### Post date: [October 5, 2022, 8:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/misunderstood-plurals-or-possibly-just-weird-linguistic-stuffs/972778/6 "2022-10-05T20:39:51Z")
> [@pulykamell](#):
>
> _Gyro_ for _gyros_ comes to mind. _Gyros_ is already singular. Much rarer, I’ve heard the singular _kudo_ for _kudos_. Happens the other way, too. _Pierogi_ is already plural, but used as the singular in English. _Blini_ is also already plural from _blin_.
And, of course, _paninis_, when _panini_ is already plural for _panino_.
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### Author:  [@Q.Q.Switcheroo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Q.Q.Switcheroo)
#### Post date: [October 5, 2022, 8:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/misunderstood-plurals-or-possibly-just-weird-linguistic-stuffs/972778/7 "2022-10-05T20:40:10Z")
> [@pulykamell](#):
>
> _Gyro_ for _gyros_ comes to mind. _Gyros_ is already singular. Much rarer, I’ve heard the singular _kudo_ for _kudos_. Happens the other way, too. _Pierogi_ is already plural, but used as the singular in English. _Blini_ is also already plural from _blin_.
_Tamale_ is a misconstrued singular form of _tamales_. (The actual singular in Spanish is _tamal_.)
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### Author:  [@Sigene](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sigene)
#### Post date: [October 5, 2022, 8:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/misunderstood-plurals-or-possibly-just-weird-linguistic-stuffs/972778/8 "2022-10-05T20:48:01Z")
The plural of octopus is always fun to deal with
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### Author:  [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)
#### Post date: [October 5, 2022, 9:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/misunderstood-plurals-or-possibly-just-weird-linguistic-stuffs/972778/9 "2022-10-05T21:01:21Z")
In another thread I mentioned that the generic word for types of cattle was beeve. It came from beeves, which was the plural of beef. Over time, however, people forgot that origin and backformed the singular into beeve.
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### Author:  [@Hari\_Seldon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hari_Seldon)
#### Post date: [October 5, 2022, 11:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/misunderstood-plurals-or-possibly-just-weird-linguistic-stuffs/972778/10 "2022-10-05T23:18:45Z")
My colleague predicted that one day rice might come to be seen as a singular of a noun rie (or maybe rye) by analogy with pea from pease.
Steven Pinker, who took a course in mathematical linguistics from colleague, included this in one of his books–without attribution.
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### Author:  [@superwombat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/superwombat)
#### Post date: [October 6, 2022, 1:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/misunderstood-plurals-or-possibly-just-weird-linguistic-stuffs/972778/11 "2022-10-06T01:34:34Z")
> [@naita](#):
>
> And I had no idea “Chupacabra” was a misunderstood singular! Neat!
So it’s one Chupacabrum. Got it. 🙂
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### Author:  [@Dr.Strangelove](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Strangelove)
#### Post date: [October 6, 2022, 1:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/misunderstood-plurals-or-possibly-just-weird-linguistic-stuffs/972778/12 "2022-10-06T01:49:37Z")
> [@Hari\_Seldon](#):
>
> My colleague predicted that one day rice might come to be seen as a singular of a noun rie (or maybe rye) by analogy with pea from pease.
I am reminded of the linguistics text _Never Eat Anything Bigger Than Your Head & Other Drawings_, in which it was claimed that the singular of _fence_ was _fent_.
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### Author:  [@Buck\_Godot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Buck_Godot)
#### Post date: [October 6, 2022, 2:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/misunderstood-plurals-or-possibly-just-weird-linguistic-stuffs/972778/13 "2022-10-06T02:07:51Z")
a poem I remember from my childhood uses this property
> A piece of cheese no bigger than a die
> can bait the trap for a wandering mie.
ETA: Found the original quote it turns out its from the [devil’s dictionary](https://www.foodreference.com/html/q-die.html)
> “Die, n. The singular of ‘dice.’ We seldom hear the word, because there is a prohibitory proverb, ‘Never say die.’ At long intervals, however, some one says: ‘The die is cast,’ which is not true, for it is cut. The word is found in an immortal couplet by that eminent poet and domestic economist, Senator Depew:
> ‘A cube of cheese no larger than a die
> May bait the trap to catch a nibbling mie.’”
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### Author:  [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)
#### Post date: [October 6, 2022, 2:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/misunderstood-plurals-or-possibly-just-weird-linguistic-stuffs/972778/14 "2022-10-06T02:11:16Z")
> [@Hari\_Seldon](#):
>
> My colleague predicted that one day rice might come to be seen as a singular of a noun rie (or maybe rye) by analogy with pea from pease.
Also cherry from cherries.
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### Author:  [@DPRK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DPRK)
#### Post date: [October 6, 2022, 2:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/misunderstood-plurals-or-possibly-just-weird-linguistic-stuffs/972778/15 "2022-10-06T02:41:06Z")
Latin has some weirdness, which I am probably going to botch, and would appreciate if someone can give the correct words and also explain it:
Let’s say a sestertius = $1
then
$2 = duo sestertii
$20 = viginti sestertii
but
$2000 = bina sestertia
$10000 = dena sestertia (= decem milia sestertium)
$20000 = sestertia vicena
$1000000 = decies sestertium
$1400000 = sestertium quater decies
$2000000 = vicies sestertium
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### Author:  [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)
#### Post date: [October 6, 2022, 4:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/misunderstood-plurals-or-possibly-just-weird-linguistic-stuffs/972778/16 "2022-10-06T04:03:24Z")
> [@DPRK](#):
>
> $2000 = bina sestertia
> $10000 = dena sestertia (= decem milia sestertium)
> $20000 = sestertia vicena
> $1000000 = decies sestertium
> $1400000 = sestertium quater decies
> $2000000 = vicies sestertium
Just a stylistic request, but it would be a lot easier to read these numbers quickly if they used the customary commas, viz., “$2,000,000,” or hybrid form: “$2 million.”
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### Author:  [@bob\_2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bob_2)
#### Post date: [October 6, 2022, 9:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/misunderstood-plurals-or-possibly-just-weird-linguistic-stuffs/972778/17 "2022-10-06T09:25:05Z")
Cannon is the one that irritates me. Like sheep, cannon is both singular and plural so, just as we don’t have flocks of sheeps, we don’t have batteries of cannons.
_\> Cannon to right of them,_
_\> Cannon to left of them,_
_\> Cannon in front of them_
_\> Volleyed and thundered;_
_\> Stormed at with shot and shell,_
_\> Boldly they rode and well,_
_\> Into the jaws of Death,_
_\> Into the mouth of hell_
_\> Rode the six hundred._
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### Author:  [@Novelty\_Bobble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Novelty_Bobble)
#### Post date: [October 6, 2022, 9:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/misunderstood-plurals-or-possibly-just-weird-linguistic-stuffs/972778/18 "2022-10-06T09:40:25Z")
My daughter insists on us calling a singular magpie a magpus.
(singular in the numerical rather than the character sense)
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### Author:  [@naita](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/naita)
#### Post date: [October 6, 2022, 1:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/misunderstood-plurals-or-possibly-just-weird-linguistic-stuffs/972778/19 "2022-10-06T13:23:47Z")
> [@bob\_2](#):
>
> Cannon is the one that irritates me. Like sheep, cannon is both singular and plural so, just as we don’t have flocks of sheeps, we don’t have batteries of cannons.
Tennyson aside “cannons” appears to have been in parallel use as a plural for the last two hundred years at least. Whence your conviction that it’s not valid?
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### Author:  [@MrAtoz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrAtoz)
#### Post date: [October 6, 2022, 1:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/misunderstood-plurals-or-possibly-just-weird-linguistic-stuffs/972778/20 "2022-10-06T13:31:04Z")
> [@Acsenray](#):
>
> And, of course, _paninis_, when _panini_ is already plural for _panino_.
When eating pasta, I sometimes like to pick up a single noodle and say, “This is a delicious spaghetto.”
My wife hates to eat with me.
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