# misuse of ironic **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [September 8, 2000, 12:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/misuse-of-ironic/32434 "2000-09-08T00:21:17Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![nick](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/f9ae1b/32.png) [@nick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nick)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2000, 12:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/misuse-of-ironic/32434/1 "2000-09-08T00:21:17Z")
Is it just me, or do people misuse ironic/irony/ironically a whole lot? I can’t think of any specific instances, but maybe you’ve seen it too. ---
**Author:** ![KneadToKnow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kneadtoknow/32/3999_2.png) [@KneadToKnow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KneadToKnow)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2000, 12:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/misuse-of-ironic/32434/2 "2000-09-08T00:22:47Z")
While the posts to this thread roll in, I’ll be over here with what Fitzgerald would have called an ironical look on my face. ---
**Author:** ![KneadToKnow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kneadtoknow/32/3999_2.png) [@KneadToKnow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KneadToKnow)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2000, 12:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/misuse-of-ironic/32434/3 "2000-09-08T00:24:18Z")
Jebus! It didn’t even dawn on me that the OP was **nick**! What irony! ---
**Author:** ![eyor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/58956e/32.png) [@eyor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eyor)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2000, 12:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/misuse-of-ironic/32434/4 "2000-09-08T00:38:39Z")
I love the irony in your name, Knead(need!)ToKnow! ---
**Author:** ![KneadToKnow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kneadtoknow/32/3999_2.png) [@KneadToKnow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KneadToKnow)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2000, 12:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/misuse-of-ironic/32434/5 "2000-09-08T00:42:03Z")
:blushes: Just don’t tell **Needs2know** , whom I unintentionally made a namesake. ---
**Author:** ![CurtC](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ce73a5/32.png) [@CurtC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CurtC)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2000, 2:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/misuse-of-ironic/32434/6 "2000-09-08T02:48:38Z")
A couple of years ago when George Carlin’s book _Brain Droppings_ was new, he was making the talk radio circuit. The misuse of “ironic” was one of his peeves. The example he gave had to do with football commentators, saying things like “After six previous concussions, isn’t it ironic that Troy Aikman went out of the game with yet another one?” ---
**Author:** ![sailor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a587f6/32.png) [@sailor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sailor)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2000, 3:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/misuse-of-ironic/32434/7 "2000-09-08T03:05:54Z")
When ships were made of wood many people believed ironic ships would sink; but ironically they didn’t. ---
**Author:** ![sdimbert](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sdimbert/32/20204_2.png) [@sdimbert](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sdimbert)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2000, 2:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/misuse-of-ironic/32434/8 "2000-09-08T14:05:59Z")
**nick** , you’ve stumbled onto one of my pet peeves. As far as I am concerned, this thread belongs in the Pit. When I taught English, I would use that Alanis Morisette (?) song, _Isn’t It Ironic_, to teach the concept. First I would provide a definition, then ask the students for examples of irony. Inevitably, that song came up. As I patiently explained, not a single thing mentioned in that song is ironic. In other words, the title of the song is ironic! (They usually didn’t get that.) :rolleyes: I explained that, “10,000 spoons when all you need is a knife,” is not ironic. It just sucks. What most people think is ironic is really just unfortunate. (\<-- Interpret that as many ways as you want to.) ---
**Author:** ![AWB](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/bb73d2/32.png) [@AWB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AWB)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2000, 2:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/misuse-of-ironic/32434/9 "2000-09-08T14:19:05Z")
It pisses my wife off when we hear “Ironic” by Alanis Morrisette and I add my little commentary: AM: “Isn’t it ironc…” AWB: “Not really.” AM: “Don’tcha think?” AWB: “uh-uh” AM: “A little toooo ironic…” AWB: “Oh?” AM: “Yeah, I really do think.” AWB: “No, you don’t.” My analysis of her song: [ul] [li]A 98-year-old man dies after winning the lottery: I’d rather expect that than think it was ironic. I’d also rather expect a 98-year-old man to die any day, no matter what happened to him.[/li][li]Raining on your wedding day: only if you arranged for it to be held on the North Rim of the Grand Canyon for the express purpose of avoiding rain. Barely.[/li][li]A death-row pardon two minutes too late: Maybe if the prisoner was the governor’s brother; i.e., you’d expect him to have made the pardon in plenty of time. Otherwise, no.[/li][li]A black fly in your Chardonnay: any time you have food or drink outside, you should _expect_ bugs to get in it. Doesn’t matter if it’s Chardonnay or Ripple Blanc.[/li][li]Good advice that you just didn’t take: barely, and only if the advice-giver was someone you’d never think would know better, like if a homeless person had told you to buy Microsoft stock 23 years ago.[/li][li]Meeting the man of my dreams and then meeting his beautiful wife: wouldn’t you expect such a dreamy man to have already been caught?[/li][li]And as the plane crashed down [Mr. Play-it-safe who’s afraid to fly] thought “Well, isn’t this nice.”: This sounds more sarcastic than ironic. Now the fact that his first plane ride after overcoming his fear is about to crash is a little ironic; more Murphy’s Law-esque.[/li][/ul] Of course, you’d think a song called “Ironic” would have ironic lyrics. Since it doesn’t, that’s a little too ironic. Don’tcha think? :D:D ---
**Author:** ![AWB](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/bb73d2/32.png) [@AWB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AWB)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2000, 2:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/misuse-of-ironic/32434/10 "2000-09-08T14:21:28Z")
darn simulpost! ---
**Author:** ![Alphagene](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/8e7dd6/32.png) [@Alphagene](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alphagene)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2000, 3:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/misuse-of-ironic/32434/11 "2000-09-08T15:01:35Z")
OK, we all know what irony _isn’t_. The problem is that I’ve known people who will happily point out the problem with Alanis’ song but themselves have trouble describing an ironic situation. So for the sake of enlightening the masses, let’s hear some _good_ examples of irony that I can whip out everytime I need to educate someone. The one I keep hearing is a classic short story (O Henry, I believe?). I forget most of it so feel free to help me out… A couple is poor and but they decide to buy each other presents. The wife cuts all of her hair off, sells it, and buys her husband a chain for his watch. Meanwhile, the husband sells his watch to buy a ribbon for his wife’s hair. Irony? ---
**Author:** ![BoBettie](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/4af34b/32.png) [@BoBettie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BoBettie)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2000, 3:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/misuse-of-ironic/32434/12 "2000-09-08T15:02:24Z")
I have what I think is a perfect example of irony. The other day I was reading a safety poster about not getting distracted and how you can be hurt if you don’t pay attention, and while I was reading it I smashed my toe into a pallet. Is that situational irony or what? I was reading about how to prevent injury, and injured myself in the process. Is this a correct use of the term? Zette ---
**Author:** ![labdude](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/5fc32e/32.png) [@labdude](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/labdude)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2000, 3:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/misuse-of-ironic/32434/13 "2000-09-08T15:04:14Z")
Beavis and Butthead did a riff on the Morrisette song. It was something like this. “… isn’t it ironic…” “uhhh, NO” “… isn’t it ironic…” “uhhh not really” “… isn’t it ironic…” “uhhh, I think this chick is stupid” ---
**Author:** ![MJH2](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/a698b9/32.png) [@MJH2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MJH2)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2000, 3:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/misuse-of-ironic/32434/14 "2000-09-08T15:17:26Z")
Hmmm, to me most of the examples of “irony” given in the last few posts aren’t; rather, they are examples of coincidences, unfortunate (as a previous poster mentioned) or otherwise. The story of the couple and the Christmas gifts: that’s an example of symmetry, not irony. While we’re at it, let’s not do as Baldrick (of “Blackadder” fame) and confuse “irony” with “coppery” or “tinny”. “Irony” occurs when the actual/intended meaning of something is different than what is literally said/expressed. If you don’t believe me, rent “Reality Bites” and watch for the scene with Winona Ryder in the elevator, trying to get a job with (I believe) a newspaper. Much of the time, the difference will be indicated by a tone of voice, facial expression, choice of words with double-meaning, and so on. It’s a subtle thing. In the case of Alanis Morrisette’s song, the irony is conveyed by _calling_ the song “Ironic”, because in doing so it purports to be a song about irony while none of the situations within it describe irony. All this assumes that (a) she understood correctly what irony is; and (b) she deliberately constructed and titled the song accordingly. Otherwise it’s just another example of how “irony” is misunderstood and misapplied. ---
**Author:** ![sdimbert](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sdimbert/32/20204_2.png) [@sdimbert](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sdimbert)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2000, 3:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/misuse-of-ironic/32434/15 "2000-09-08T15:30:09Z")
**Alphagene** , that story is called, “The Gift of the Magi.” And before you ask, no, I don’t remember why. 🙂 **Zette** , you are correct. That is an example of “situational irony.” **MJH** , I agree with your assessment of the song’s title and Alanis’ misunderstanding of the term. One of the best examples of “literary irony” I can think of is in Poe’s wonderful classic short story, “The Cask of Amantillado.” Yes, you have heard of it. It’s the one where the guy buries the other guy alive behind the wall in the basement. You know: > [@](#): > > “For the love of God, Montressor!” > > “Yes,” I said. “For the love of God.” (Gives me shivers every time! :)) Anyway, there is a great bit where the guy being buried (can’t remember his name) decides to trust Monteressor (the murderous, insane narrator) because he is a Mason. Get it? A _Mason_? Delicious irony… PS - That short story is alluded to numerous times in Stephen King’s, “Dolan’s Cadillac,” if anyone cares. ---
**Author:** ![conway](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ec9cab/32.png) [@conway](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/conway)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2000, 3:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/misuse-of-ironic/32434/16 "2000-09-08T15:40:54Z")
Well the dictionary, [http://www.dictionary.com/cgi-bin/dict.pl?term=A0047364](http://www.dictionary.com/cgi-bin/dict.pl?term=A0047364) gives this example: Ironically, even as the government was fulminating against American policy, American jeans and videocassettes were the hottest items in the stalls of the market. And: Hyde noted the irony of Ireland’s copying the nation she most hated. I’m not sure that a coincidence can’t be ironic, but I am sure that it isn’t always. ---
**Author:** ![redtail23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/3e96dc/32.png) [@redtail23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/redtail23)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2000, 4:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/misuse-of-ironic/32434/17 "2000-09-08T16:04:00Z")
From _Webster’s_: Irony \I"ron\*y, n.[L. ironia, Gr. ? dissimulation, fr. ? a dissembler in speech, fr. ? to speak; perh. akin to E. word: cf. F. ironie.] 1. Dissimulation; ignorance feigned for the purpose of confounding or provoking an antagonist. From _WordNet_: irony n 1: witty language used to convey insults or scorn; “he used sarcasm to upset his opponent”; “irony is wasted on the stupid” [syn: {sarcasm}, {satire}, {caustic remark}] 2: incongruity between what might be expected and what actually occurs: “the irony of Ireland’s copying the nation she most hated” 3: a trope that involves incongruity between what is expected and what occurs From _American Heritage_: i·ro·ny (r-n, r-) n., pl. i·ro·nies. The use of words to express something different from and often opposite to their literal meaning. An expression or utterance marked by a deliberate contrast between apparent and intended meaning. A literary style employing such contrasts for humorous or rhetorical effect. See Synonyms at wit1. Incongruity between what might be expected and what actually occurs: “Hyde noted the irony of Ireland’s copying the nation she most hated” (Richard Kain). An occurrence, a result, or a circumstance notable for such incongruity. See Usage Note at ironic. Dramatic irony. Socratic irony. > [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by MJH \* > **While we’re at it, let’s not do as Baldrick (of “Blackadder” fame) and confuse “irony” with “coppery” or “tinny”.** Erm, excuse. From _Webster’s_: Irony \I"ron\*y, a. [From {Iron}.] 1. Made or consisting of iron; partaking of iron; iron; as, irony chains; irony particles. [/quote] [whine] I want an OED… [/whine] ---
**Author:** ![Sofa\_King](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/58956e/32.png) [@Sofa\_King](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sofa_King)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2000, 4:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/misuse-of-ironic/32434/18 "2000-09-08T16:19:22Z")
Alanis Morisette is one of the great thinkers of our age. ---
**Author:** ![sdimbert](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sdimbert/32/20204_2.png) [@sdimbert](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sdimbert)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2000, 4:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/misuse-of-ironic/32434/19 "2000-09-08T16:29:32Z")
**Sofa King** , you’ve made an excellent point. I used to tell my students that sarcasm is the bluntest form of irony. ---
**Author:** ![AWB](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/bb73d2/32.png) [@AWB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AWB)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2000, 4:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/misuse-of-ironic/32434/20 "2000-09-08T16:35:13Z")
Situational Irony: 1. A fire station burning down. 2. Drug dealers selling to police that are in uniform. (This actually happens! Officer in story said he’d go right up to the suspected dealer’s house and ask to buy drugs. The dealer would hem and haw. Cop would say that it’s cool. Dealer would go back in house, then bring out drugs for sale. Cop would bust him.) 3. An actress is so busy with her film “Animal Husbandry” that she forgets her two cats and two dogs in her New York apartment. One of the cats gives birth, and the starving dogs eat the kittens. (Gossip about Ashley Judd. Hope it’s not true.) 4. (modified Alanis Morrisette situation) A homeless person who barely eats enough to survive wins the lottery. The day he gets his money, he goes to a nice restaurant. He then chokes to death on his first bite of food. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/misuse-of-ironic/32434.md?page=2)