# Mixed gender rooms in the armed forces. **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [May 27, 2018, 9:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mixed-gender-rooms-in-the-armed-forces/814925 "2018-05-27T21:30:38Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 14\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Bear\_Nenno](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bear_nenno/32/3358_2.png) [@Bear\_Nenno](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bear_Nenno)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2018, 7:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mixed-gender-rooms-in-the-armed-forces/814925/41 "2018-05-29T19:02:37Z")
> [@DavidwithanR](#): > > Obviously, making a false claim would then rain all hell down on the false claimant, but there are hardly any of those. Hardly!? In 2015, there were approximately 4,500 sexual assaults across the military reported to law enforcement. At least 15% were determined to be _baseless_ during the initial criminal investigation. False claims and an overhyped institutional response are two of the biggest challenges preventing effective culture change across the formations. Failing to recognize the fact that false claims are an issue is just as bad as believing every report is genuine. Each case is looked at objectively, without blaming or doubting the victim, and without immediately crucifying the alleged assailant. Doing that, the military found 15% of allegations to be baseless. I’m not sure what qualifies as “hardly” in your eyes, but that can’t be it. Of the allegations which survived the cursory review, 8% were later determined to be _legally unfounded_. An additional 12% were found to have “_insufficient evidence_”. And in 11% of the remaining cases, the victim declined to participate in the investigation. We certainly have a long way to go. The current rate of 1 in every 20 reports resulting in incarceration certainly isn’t ideal. In 95% of reports, the alleged perpetrator receives no jail time, but that’s because only 7% of reports result in a conviction. The problem is a lot more complicated than, “the military doesn’t believe its servicewomen”. Rapeculture isn’t soley responsible for preventing a conviction in 93% of _reported_ sexual assaults. The Army teaches that if two people have sex while they are both inebriated, one of them raped the other. “Who raped whom,” you ask? The person who reports it first is the victim. That kind of ridiculousness just encourages someone to file a report merely for self-preservation! ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2018, 7:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mixed-gender-rooms-in-the-armed-forces/814925/42 "2018-05-29T19:39:36Z")
> [@Marcus\_Flavius](#): > > I’m currently in the US army, and I can tell you that it’s getting more “gender neutral” and female friendly by the day. I’ve done ‘field training exercises’ where the males and females have had to live and sleep in the same room or tent and frankly, I do not like it one bit. Is that your worst complaint about army life? Having to share it with women? > [@](#): > > Males and females should _never_ share the same sleeping quarters unless they are married, in a relationship, or related to each other. Wait! Wait! We have to stop the war - we ran out of segregated porta-potties, tents, and Marcus is feeling less manly! Seriously, dude - have you never had an emergency? I have once in awhile wound up sharing a hotel room with a bunch of people, none of them related to me, and mixed gender. I assure you that, other than a lot of talking about stuff, ordering out for food, and actual sleep nothing else happened. Because… I dunno, we were all _adults?_ :rolleyes: > [@Marcus\_Flavius](#): > > Not so much a morality thing, it’s just that it opens up possibilities for problems. Personally, I also feel that it’s somewhat emasculating and humiliating. About the above scenario - no one’s dick fell off. Again, :rolleyes: More seriously - I am having trouble wrapping my head around the notion that sharing a tent with a woman _emasculates_ you. WTF? > [@Flyer](#): > > Totally aside from morality issues, there are also practical considerations. > > Most mainstream media outlets don’t like to report on drawbacks to “enlightened” policies, so you probably don’t know about the problems. > > > [@](#): > > > > More than 200 servicewomen have been sent home from war zones after discovering they were pregnant. > > > > An astonishing 99 were evacuated from Afghanistan and 102 from Iraq under rules that ban mothers-to-be from serving on the front line. Well, yes, in the old days the military didn’t have to consider the babies left in the wake of the army because it was the soldiers fucking camp followers and whores. Yes, newsflash, healthy young men and women - and that’s what makes up an army - have sex. Maybe the US should just get over the hang-ups about fucking. As long as the sex was consensual and not breaking the rules or endangering others so what? And even with birth control you’re going to get an occasional baby because no birth control is perfect. Not to mention the occasional incident of a woman being deployed before she realizes she pregnant. And yes, moms-to-be need to be removed from the front lines. But I ask this - how many women service members in total are in the British military in those war zones? 200 soldiers pregnant seems like a large number, but if you have 10,000 women in the group being considered that’s what, 2% of the women? Well, hell, the birth control pill has a 2% failure rate. In that case, 200 isn’t that much. How many men are sent home because they’re found to have some disease or condition incompatible (short or long term) with serving? > [@SamuelA](#): > > I’m not sure that making the genders bunk in separate rooms does much to reduce this. What would reduce this would be making servicemembers take long term contraceptives, such as implants, IUDs, or their equivalent once they exist for men. > [@puzzlegal](#): > > I’d think the military would want its female members to have IUDs or implants, and would actively encourage them doing so. It’s got to be costly to have troop pregnant. Hormonal implants can have side effects, so while I absolutely believe they should be an option for military women I wouldn’t make them a requirement. Even with implants and IUD’s condom use should be encouraged because they protect against STD’s, which we would also prefer our soldiers not to suffer from. > [@](#): > > A bigger problem would be whether or not there is an increased incidence of rapes. ^ This. I’ve heard the sexual assault rate in the military is 25-30% and the civilian world about 45-50% and up - so while the military rate is appalling it is STILL safer for a woman serving in the military than her sisters in the civilian world. Why isn’t there the same outrage about civilians being assaulted and/or raped? > [@](#): > > Which are supposedly extremely common and the majority of servicewomen in the U.S. military report being assaulted at least once. Though I’ve heard from an NCO in charge of investigating them that the actual majority of rapes are male on male. I’ll just note here that male-on-male rape is also completely unacceptable. > [@puzzlegal](#): > > Someone thinks single occupancy porta-johns need to be labeled MALE or FEMALE? Yes, and such people are idiots. Hell, when I was working in construction one jobsite we had a unisex Big Gulp cup to use as a urinal (damn portajohn hadn’t been delivered and there was no plumbing installed on site yet). I don’t recommend the arrangement, but sometimes you just gotta do what you gotta do. I have no problems ignoring “MALE” on a single-occupancy portajohn, and likewise I know most men are going to ignore “FEMALE” if they really need to go (the rest will find a bush, but with public urination more and more likely to earn a “sexual offender” label fewer of them are finding pissing against a tree or wall a good choice). ---
**Author:** ![Grim\_Render](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a87d85/32.png) [@Grim\_Render](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grim_Render)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2018, 9:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mixed-gender-rooms-in-the-armed-forces/814925/43 "2018-05-29T21:31:18Z")
> [@Broomstick](#): > > I’ve heard the sexual assault rate in the military is 25-30% and the civilian world about 45-50% and up - so while the military rate is appalling it is STILL safer for a woman serving in the military than her sisters in the civilian world. Why isn’t there the same outrage about civilians being assaulted and/or raped? Digression: I don’t think those two numbers cover the same time period. I suspect the military covers a period of service and the civilian one is a lifetime risk. ---
**Author:** ![Loach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/loach/32/350_2.png) [@Loach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loach)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2018, 9:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mixed-gender-rooms-in-the-armed-forces/814925/44 "2018-05-29T21:56:45Z")
> [@SamuelA](#): > > I’m not sure that making the genders bunk in separate rooms does much to reduce this. What would reduce this would be making servicemembers take long term contraceptives, such as implants, IUDs, or their equivalent once they exist for men. > > A bigger problem would be whether or not there is an increased incidence of rapes. Which are supposedly extremely common and the majority of servicewomen in the U.S. military report being assaulted at least once. Though I’ve heard from an NCO in charge of investigating them that the actual majority of rapes are male on male. > > Norwegians are a different people and a different culture. Maybe this isn’t as much of a problem for them. There is big problem with the sexual assault statistics in the military. It’s really unclear if the rate is higher or lower than in civilian life especially when compared with something like college life where there is also a large number of young people and after hours alcohol consumption. In the past the system was definitely broken. When the issues were brought to light the pendulum swung the other way. Briefing after briefing. PowerPoint after PowerPoint. Putting Sexual assault prevention as a mandatory block on yearly evaluations. Above all the emphasis on reporting incidents. How to report, who to report to, unit representatives in every company, losing your career if you didn’t handle the reports correctly… And guess what? Reports shot up. Who could have predicted that? Did the instances of assaults really go up or is it just that it was a hell of a lot easier to report? You didn’t have to call 911. You didn’t have to go to the police station. Your SHARP victim advocate is Mary who you work with every day and who you just heard give another briefing on sexual assault to the company. ---
**Author:** ![alphaboi867](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alphaboi867/32/3898_2.png) [@alphaboi867](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/alphaboi867)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2018, 11:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mixed-gender-rooms-in-the-armed-forces/814925/45 "2018-05-29T23:32:10Z")
> [@Grim\_Render](#): > > …I visited my old army barracks for open day two years ago and I noticed the large number of female immigrants children now serving. I am surprised at the lack of problems with nude co-ed bathing… Just out of curiosity; what country is this? ---
**Author:** ![Ranger\_Jeff](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ranger_jeff/32/2065_2.png) [@Ranger\_Jeff](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ranger_Jeff)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2018, 12:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mixed-gender-rooms-in-the-armed-forces/814925/46 "2018-05-30T00:02:32Z")
Becoming pregnant was an effective way for a female to get reassigned to shore duty. ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2018, 12:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mixed-gender-rooms-in-the-armed-forces/814925/47 "2018-05-30T00:54:59Z")
While I have no doubt there are/were some cases of deliberate pregnancy in hopes of that, I have no doubt that a substantial number were completely unintentional just because no birth control is 100% reliable. ---
**Author:** ![GuanoLad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guanolad/32/42_2.png) [@GuanoLad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GuanoLad)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2018, 2:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mixed-gender-rooms-in-the-armed-forces/814925/48 "2018-05-30T02:29:03Z")
> [@MrDibble](#): > > Eh? 15 is nearly twice as much as 8. Taking margin of error into account, and looking at the proportions compared to the whole, yes there’s a difference, but not enough to say it’s a gender divide. ---
**Author:** ![Chimera](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/8e8cbc/32.png) [@Chimera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chimera)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2018, 2:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mixed-gender-rooms-in-the-armed-forces/814925/49 "2018-05-30T02:43:54Z")
> [@Ranger\_Jeff](#): > > Becoming pregnant was an effective way for a female to get reassigned to shore duty. Right, it is a big problem in the US Navy. ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2018, 12:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mixed-gender-rooms-in-the-armed-forces/814925/50 "2018-05-30T12:43:11Z")
I’m still waiting to hear why Marcus feels emasculated when he shares a tent with women. ---
**Author:** ![Inigo\_Montoya](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/inigo_montoya/32/124_2.png) [@Inigo\_Montoya](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inigo_Montoya)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2018, 1:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mixed-gender-rooms-in-the-armed-forces/814925/51 "2018-05-30T13:19:25Z")
Want to prevent rapes, sexual assaults and wartime pregnancy? The simple answer is training which focuses on personal and professional respect of all who wear the uniform. At least that was good enough for us in the '90s. We worked in small mixed-gender teams, shenanigans in the field were rare and as far as I ever heard, consensual and extended from relationships already existing back in garrison. It is a curious thing, but someone you might otherwise find attractive simply ceases to be so after a day or two of intense training interaction (talking job-related, not respect-focused classes). I don’t mean their makeup has smeared or they need a shave, I mean they simply cease to appear sexual. I don’t understand the psychology behind it, but teammates–within your preference or not–quickly get placed in the same brain compartment as a sibling or mission-essential equipment. From what I recall of Basic Training, mixed sleeping arrangements wouldn’t have been a problem. Basic was the least horny I have ever been in my life (and I’m 50). I don’t remember being conscious near my bunk for more than 3 minutes at a time, and I also remember being so damned tired all the time that my theretofore dependable morning companion was all but absent. I know it happened from time to time that folks would slip out at night and do the nasty behind the dumpsters, but I put that down to rebellious spirit and thrill seeking. The vast majority of us were just thankful to have some time to sleep. Frankly, I’d be willing to bet mixed showering would go a long way toward desexualizing all involved and preventing assaults later in peoples’ careers. You’ve got 2 minutes to find a showerhead, soap up, rinse off, and make room for the next–no time for gazing. I guess my point is, real life just isn’t sexy. ---
**Author:** ![Grim\_Render](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a87d85/32.png) [@Grim\_Render](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grim_Render)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2018, 7:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mixed-gender-rooms-in-the-armed-forces/814925/52 "2018-05-30T19:01:39Z")
> [@alphaboi867](#): > > Just out of curiosity; what country is this? I am from Norway. > [@Inigo\_Montoya](#): > > From what I recall of Basic Training, mixed sleeping arrangements wouldn’t have been a problem. Basic was the least horny I have ever been in my life (and I’m 50). I don’t remember being conscious near my bunk for more than 3 minutes at a time, and I also remember being so damned tired all the time that my theretofore dependable morning companion was all but absent. Thats pretty much how I remember it too. And the blood, there was always some cut or scrape. ---
**Author:** ![Ispolkom](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e47774/32.png) [@Ispolkom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ispolkom)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2018, 3:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mixed-gender-rooms-in-the-armed-forces/814925/53 "2018-05-31T03:53:05Z")
> [@AK84](#): > > Well besides fratenisation ruining unit cohesion Tell that to the [Sacred Band.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sacred_Band_of_Thebes) ---
**Author:** ![MarvinKitFox](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/7ba0ec/32.png) [@MarvinKitFox](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MarvinKitFox)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2018, 6:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mixed-gender-rooms-in-the-armed-forces/814925/54 "2018-06-01T06:09:59Z")
> [@Marcus\_Flavius](#): > > I do not like it one bit. Males and females should _never_ share the same sleeping quarters unless they are married, in a relationship, or related to each other. This is only a problem is you are from a culture that both encourages promiscuous behavior, and condemns it as evil. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mixed-gender-rooms-in-the-armed-forces/814925.md?page=2)