# MLB: April 2015 **URL:** \ **Category:** The Game Room\ **Created:** [April 5, 2015, 6:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mlb-april-2015/716893 "2015-04-05T18:32:04Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 13
**Author:** ![Oredigger77](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/oredigger77/32/3181_2.png) [@Oredigger77](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oredigger77)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2015, 6:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mlb-april-2015/716893/241 "2015-04-29T18:52:59Z")
> [@RickJay](#): > > No he isn’t. By the standards of a position player Greinke is a dreadful hitter. No position player could last as a major league regular hitting the way Greinke does. Maybe you’d tolerate a backup catcher with a good glove for a little while hitting like that, but only if there weren’t any ready replacements or you had a lot of injuries. Kind of. Actually, once he’s had some practice and been out of the AL for a couple of years he’s been a .250 hitter with a .319 OBP in his 3 years with the Dodgers considering he was a .167/.167 during his 8 years in the AL I think it shows all he really needed was practice. Considering that Juan Uribe has had a nice long career and has been a .257/.302 hitter over his career I think defense can definitely keep a hitter like Greinke around. ---
**Author:** ![wolfman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/a8b319/32.png) [@wolfman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wolfman)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2015, 7:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mlb-april-2015/716893/242 "2015-04-29T19:13:51Z")
Hehe, Inside the park home run by a catcher for the Tigers. ---
**Author:** ![Barkis\_is\_Willin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/a183cd/32.png) [@Barkis\_is\_Willin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Barkis_is_Willin)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2015, 8:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mlb-april-2015/716893/243 "2015-04-29T20:21:38Z")
There are always one or two pitchers who can hit, as in, wow his avg. is over .220! Generally though, they are automatic outs. That said, I don’t care if the NL wants to keep their rule. I prefer the DH, but it would feel weird if the NL adopted it. It feels like there are more hitters parks in the NL, so I wonder what would happen to offensive stats if they did accept the DH. ---
**Author:** ![PSXer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/48db29/32.png) [@PSXer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PSXer)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2015, 10:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mlb-april-2015/716893/244 "2015-04-29T22:20:06Z")
looks like there was one guy at the orioles game today [![](https://i.imgur.com/uAIOfX9.jpg) ](https://i.imgur.com/uAIOfX9.jpg) ---
**Author:** ![mhendo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mhendo/32/3159_2.png) [@mhendo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mhendo)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2015, 1:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mlb-april-2015/716893/245 "2015-04-30T01:58:14Z")
> [@Barkis\_is\_Willin](#): > > There are always one or two pitchers who can hit, as in, wow his avg. is over .220! Generally though, they are automatic outs. The question for me, as i suggested in an earlier post, is not whether DHs are better at hitting than pitchers; it’s whether the DH solves any real problem. A few years ago, i collected a few numbers on this issue. I looked at a year of plate appearances by NL pitchers. Over the course of the year, the average of all NL pitchers at the plate was .139, compared with a league batting average of about .260. Remember, also, that pitchers on NL teams (even when you combine all pitchers on a team) never get as many plate appearances as a regular, full-time position player. In the year i investigated, the average NL team sent a pitcher to the plate about 300 times. The rest of the time, the pitcher’s spot in the order was taken by a pinch hitter, i.e., someone who is an actual batter. If you work out the difference in average, and take into account the number of plate appearances, the absence of the DH deprives NL fans of about 36-40 hits per year, or one hit every four games or so. And that doesn’t even account for the sacrifice bunts laid down by pitchers, which don’t record as a hit, but can often help their teams. I understand that this is something that people feel pretty strongly about, but the slight reduction in offense, for me, doesn’t really matter, and i like watching pitchers try to get a hit. And i say that as the fan of an American League team. ---
**Author:** ![madmonk28](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/madmonk28/32/20811_2.png) [@madmonk28](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/madmonk28)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2015, 12:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mlb-april-2015/716893/246 "2015-04-30T12:53:53Z")
Nationals pitcher Jordan Zimmermann last night in Atlanta: > [@](#): > > The Nationals trailed by a run but had loaded the bases with two outs. Zimmermann barely moved as Braves starter Alex Wood threw him three straight balls out of the strike zone. Two fat strikes buzzed by him next, but Zimmermann stood upright with the bat held just above his shoulder, looking content to leave it there. > > With the count full, he swung — fouled it off. Then he swung again. This time, he connected, a line drive into the gap in left-center. It was a single that cleared the bases and turned a deficit into a lead. They built on it from there, scoring 13 runs for the second straight night, a franchise first — Expos included. The Nationals (9-13) have won consecutive games for the third time and have won a series for the second. > > After Zimmermann’s hit, Denard Span heard teammates yell, “Who needs the DH? [Bleep] the DH!” [http://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/nationals/nats-keep-swinging-in-atlanta/2015/04/29/e9c890ca-eeb8-11e4-a55f-38924fca94f9\_story.html](http://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/nationals/nats-keep-swinging-in-atlanta/2015/04/29/e9c890ca-eeb8-11e4-a55f-38924fca94f9_story.html) Now that’s a ballgame. ---
**Author:** ![Barkis\_is\_Willin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/a183cd/32.png) [@Barkis\_is\_Willin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Barkis_is_Willin)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2015, 1:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mlb-april-2015/716893/247 "2015-04-30T13:36:13Z")
> [@mhendo](#): > > The question for me, as i suggested in an earlier post, is not whether DHs are better at hitting than pitchers; it’s whether the DH solves any real problem. > > A few years ago, i collected a few numbers on this issue. I looked at a year of plate appearances by NL pitchers. Over the course of the year, the average of all NL pitchers at the plate was .139, compared with a league batting average of about .260. > > Remember, also, that pitchers on NL teams (even when you combine all pitchers on a team) never get as many plate appearances as a regular, full-time position player. In the year i investigated, the average NL team sent a pitcher to the plate about 300 times. The rest of the time, the pitcher’s spot in the order was taken by a pinch hitter, i.e., someone who is an actual batter. > > If you work out the difference in average, and take into account the number of plate appearances, the absence of the DH deprives NL fans of about 36-40 hits per year, or one hit every four games or so. And that doesn’t even account for the sacrifice bunts laid down by pitchers, which don’t record as a hit, but can often help their teams. > > I understand that this is something that people feel pretty strongly about, but the slight reduction in offense, for me, doesn’t really matter, and i like watching pitchers try to get a hit. And i say that as the fan of an American League team. If we’re going to be really fair, let’s compare pitchers to DH rather than all position players. Last year the top 5 players in terms of plate appearances as a designated hitter, a list which includes the abysmal Adam Dunn, hit .272 with 124 HRs between them. The top 5 pitchers in terms of plate appearances hit .169 with 4 HRs, all of which belonged to Madison Bumgarner, whose .258 average also boosted the totals. The DH solves a couple problems, one being we don’t have to watch Bartolo Colon flail away at the plate. Another is that we do get to watch David Ortiz, Edgar Martinez, Frank Thomas, Miguel Cabrera, hell even ARod these days. Guys who may or may not see as many at bats if they had to play the field. I’m actually in favor of allowing a DH for any one position, of course 99% of the time it would apply to pitcher. But if the Giants want to let Bumgarner hit, I get that. By my rule, they can DH for Brandon Crawford if they want. ---
**Author:** ![madmonk28](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/madmonk28/32/20811_2.png) [@madmonk28](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/madmonk28)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2015, 2:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mlb-april-2015/716893/248 "2015-04-30T14:36:03Z")
What your describing is a different game than the baseball played in the NL. Why not just let people hit off a tee ball tee? There is a whole other level of play going on in the NL. The system works well now, we have the NL for baseball and the AL for the casual fans (I kid, I kid). ---
**Author:** ![ISiddiqui](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/97f17d/32.png) [@ISiddiqui](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ISiddiqui)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2015, 3:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mlb-april-2015/716893/249 "2015-04-30T15:04:56Z")
> [@Barkis\_is\_Willin](#): > > The DH solves a couple problems, one being we don’t have to watch Bartolo Colon flail away at the plate. Another is that we do get to watch David Ortiz, Edgar Martinez, Frank Thomas, Miguel Cabrera, hell even ARod these days. Guys who may or may not see as many at bats if they had to play the field. > > I’m actually in favor of allowing a DH for any one position, of course 99% of the time it would apply to pitcher. But if the Giants want to let Bumgarner hit, I get that. By my rule, they can DH for Brandon Crawford if they want. It creates another problem, which is far greater, IMO, than solving any problems. It makes one (or two halves, rather) position “special” in that a player doesn’t need to worry about playing half of the game, whether offense or defense. For every other position except those who excel at both sides, the manager has to decide if the player’s offense makes up for his deficiency at defense or vice versa (even if you only have one DH for any position, there are others one has to make the following calculus). ---
**Author:** ![Barkis\_is\_Willin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/a183cd/32.png) [@Barkis\_is\_Willin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Barkis_is_Willin)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2015, 4:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mlb-april-2015/716893/250 "2015-04-30T16:24:30Z")
And that’s a problem for whom, exactly? ---
**Author:** ![Thudlow\_Boink](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thudlow_boink/32/320_2.png) [@Thudlow\_Boink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thudlow_Boink)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2015, 4:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mlb-april-2015/716893/251 "2015-04-30T16:43:07Z")
> [@Barkis\_is\_Willin](#): > > And that’s a problem for whom, exactly? For fans of _real_ baseball. 🙂 The more discussions and comments I read & hear, the more convinced I become that there are substantial numbers of people who genuinely and strongly prefer each style of baseball. And that, I think, is a strong argument for keeping things as is, with the DH in the AL and not in the NL. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2015, 6:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mlb-april-2015/716893/252 "2015-04-30T18:32:47Z")
> [@ISiddiqui](#): > > It makes one (or two halves, rather) position “special” in that a player doesn’t need to worry about playing half of the game, whether offense or defense. You don’t think pitching has _always_ been a special position, far different in nature and in physical demands from the fielding positions than they are from each other? > [@](#): > > For every other position except those who excel at both sides, the manager has to decide if the player’s offense makes up for his deficiency at defense or vice versa That decision is usually made by the _general_ manager. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![ISiddiqui](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/97f17d/32.png) [@ISiddiqui](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ISiddiqui)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2015, 6:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mlb-april-2015/716893/253 "2015-04-30T18:43:59Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > You don’t think pitching has _always_ been a special position, far different in nature and in physical demands from the fielding positions than they are from each other? A pitcher is simply a defensive specialist, who makes up for his poor offense by his role defensively. The same as how great hitting, bad-fielding players (Hi Manny Ramirez!) are offensive specialists. > [@](#): > > That decision is usually made by the _general_ manager. 😉 In terms of acquiring players, but how to play them is the manager’s - and picking the person stronger in defense or stronger in offense is a choice they make. ---
**Author:** ![ISiddiqui](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/97f17d/32.png) [@ISiddiqui](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ISiddiqui)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2015, 6:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mlb-april-2015/716893/254 "2015-04-30T18:46:04Z")
> [@Barkis\_is\_Willin](#): > > And that’s a problem for whom, exactly? As stated… fans of real baseball ;). Positions should be treated equally in that they should play both offense and defense. The problem is that making a position special offends our (anti-DH people) feelings of fairness. ---
**Author:** ![Barkis\_is\_Willin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/a183cd/32.png) [@Barkis\_is\_Willin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Barkis_is_Willin)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2015, 6:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mlb-april-2015/716893/255 "2015-04-30T18:51:55Z")
> [@Thudlow\_Boink](#): > > For fans of _real_ baseball. 🙂 > > The more discussions and comments I read & hear, the more convinced I become that there are substantial numbers of people who genuinely and strongly prefer each style of baseball. And that, I think, is a strong argument for keeping things as is, with the DH in the AL and not in the NL. Agreed, and as I said earlier in the thread, I have no problem with the NL keeping their rule. Just don’t take it away from me in the AL! ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2015, 6:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mlb-april-2015/716893/256 "2015-04-30T18:53:03Z")
Yes, everybody should get to play. Just like in Tee Ball or PE class. Even the fat kids. :rolleyes: We’re discussing the entertainment industry here. Where entertainment is what matters. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2015, 6:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mlb-april-2015/716893/257 "2015-04-30T18:54:50Z")
> [@ISiddiqui](#): > > A pitcher is simply a defensive specialist One who gets to just stand around, dangling a glove, most of the time. Oh, wait, no, he doesn’t, does he? Pitching is different, _very_ different - special. ---
**Author:** ![madmonk28](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/madmonk28/32/20811_2.png) [@madmonk28](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/madmonk28)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2015, 6:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mlb-april-2015/716893/258 "2015-04-30T18:56:02Z")
> [@ISiddiqui](#): > > …In terms of acquiring players, but how to play them is the manager’s - and picking the person stronger in defense or stronger in offense is a choice they make. Exactly, there is a whole other level of play going on in NL games, the manager is making lots of calculations about when to pull a pitcher in a close game. That level of strategy is part of what I love about real baseball 😃 ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2015, 6:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mlb-april-2015/716893/259 "2015-04-30T18:59:21Z")
If you’re more excited by the subtlety of a manager making a double switch than by watching the best players play their best, let’s not hear from you about who the “real fans” are. Only an archaic rule held onto by a single league makes a non-player’s actions take precedence over his players’ there. ---
**Author:** ![ISiddiqui](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/97f17d/32.png) [@ISiddiqui](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ISiddiqui)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2015, 7:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mlb-april-2015/716893/260 "2015-04-30T19:01:19Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > One who gets to just stand around, dangling a glove, most of the time. Oh, wait, no, he doesn’t, does he? Pitching is different, _very_ different - special. Still a defensive specialist. Catchers, of course, don’t just stand around a dangle a glove either. So… Designate a Batter for them? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mlb-april-2015/716893.md?page=12) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mlb-april-2015/716893.md?page=14)