# MLB Catcher - Umpire Relationship **URL:** \ **Category:** The Game Room\ **Created:** [September 23, 2010, 2:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mlb-catcher-umpire-relationship/554767 "2010-09-23T14:07:14Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![SanDiegoTim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/85e7bf/32.png) [@SanDiegoTim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SanDiegoTim)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2010, 2:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mlb-catcher-umpire-relationship/554767/1 "2010-09-23T14:07:14Z")
I’ve been told that tradition is such that catchers can speak with home plate umpires, but not turn around and do so “face to face.” Is this true? If so, why? ---
**Author:** ![jonesj2205](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ecc23a/32.png) [@jonesj2205](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jonesj2205)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2010, 2:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mlb-catcher-umpire-relationship/554767/2 "2010-09-23T14:19:28Z")
If the catcher turns to talk to the umpire than he is publicly showing he is challenging the umpire’s judgment. And umpires don’t appreciate that. If he doesn’t turn around than the only ones who know it are them and the batter and it’s less of a challenge. ---
**Author:** ![Munch](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/munch/32/5281_2.png) [@Munch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Munch)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2010, 2:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mlb-catcher-umpire-relationship/554767/3 "2010-09-23T14:19:42Z")
Catchers talk directly to umpires all the time. ---
**Author:** ![SanDiegoTim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/85e7bf/32.png) [@SanDiegoTim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SanDiegoTim)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2010, 2:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mlb-catcher-umpire-relationship/554767/4 "2010-09-23T14:21:59Z")
> [@Munch](#): > > Catchers talk directly to umpires all the time. Face to face? ---
**Author:** ![RealityChuck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/realitychuck/32/195_2.png) [@RealityChuck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RealityChuck)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2010, 2:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mlb-catcher-umpire-relationship/554767/5 "2010-09-23T14:22:19Z")
Well, there’s really no way to prevent the catcher from talking to the umpire, short of gagging him. And some of the talk is pretty innocuous. But issue arises when the catcher doesn’t like the call. He can say, “Gee, Bob, you missed that one.” Now if the catcher talks while doing his job (i.e., catching), the umpire will usually let it go. The only people hearing it are the catcher, the ump, and maybe the batter. But once you turn around to talk, then you are seen by everyone in the stadium as challenging the ump’s authority. It makes them look bad. They won’t toss you, necessarily, but they need to assert their authority. It also depends on the situation. You aren’t supposed to argue a ball or strike call (assuming the ball hasn’t been fouled off or hit the batter and any player can get tossed for that). But if it’s a close play at the plate, or a question about whether the ball hit the batter or the bat, the catcher will turn to argue without being penalized (unless he goes too far). You’ll see catchers argue face-to-face all the time when they think they’ve tagged the batter and the ump says no. BTW, batters do the same thing. You can protest a call or express your displeasure, but you’re less likely to be tossed if you say it without directly challenging the upm. ---
**Author:** ![Barkis\_is\_Willin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/a183cd/32.png) [@Barkis\_is\_Willin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Barkis_is_Willin)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2010, 2:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mlb-catcher-umpire-relationship/554767/6 "2010-09-23T14:36:28Z")
> [@SanDiegoTim](#): > > I’ve been told that tradition is such that catchers can speak with home plate umpires, but not turn around and do so “face to face.” Is this true? If so, why? If you’re asking if there is a rule against it, no there is not. However, as others have mentioned, if the catcher turns around to argue a call face to face, he’ll probably get ejected for showing up the umpire. A batter might look at the ump and make a comment or ask a question, but if he actually approaches the umpre and gets in his face, he’ll likely get ejected, too. Casual conversation does occur between catcher and umpire at most levels of baseball, too. Again, the catcher is not turning and speaking face to face, usually because he’s got other things to do, like give a sign, set up and catch a pitch. ---
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2010, 2:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mlb-catcher-umpire-relationship/554767/7 "2010-09-23T14:45:26Z")
They’re both targets, so they try to get along as well. Note what happenes when the catcher misses a pitch and the umpire gets hit. The catcher will usually go out to the mound for a conference, giving the ump a chance to catch his breath and such. Umps will return the favor by doing a bit of plate maintenence if the catcher gets tagged with a pitch. ---
**Author:** ![Tom\_Tildrum](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e95f7d/32.png) [@Tom\_Tildrum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tom_Tildrum)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2010, 2:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mlb-catcher-umpire-relationship/554767/8 "2010-09-23T14:49:40Z")
Slightly off-topic, here’s a [collection](http://www.wezen-ball.com/2010-articles/may/the-best-catcher-insults-in-baseball-movies.html) of the best catcher-to-batter insults in baseball movies. ---
**Author:** ![jonesj2205](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ecc23a/32.png) [@jonesj2205](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jonesj2205)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2010, 3:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mlb-catcher-umpire-relationship/554767/9 "2010-09-23T15:04:50Z")
> [@Barkis\_is\_Willin](#): > > Casual conversation does occur between catcher and umpire at most levels of baseball, too. Again, the catcher is not turning and speaking face to face, usually because he’s got other things to do, like give a sign, set up and catch a pitch. My daughter catches in high school softball and a few of the umpires drive her nuts because they don’t shut up. She has wisely decided that turning around and saying “You mind, I’m trying to work here” is not her best choice, but she’s sorely tempted some days. ---
**Author:** ![Munch](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/munch/32/5281_2.png) [@Munch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Munch)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2010, 3:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mlb-catcher-umpire-relationship/554767/10 "2010-09-23T15:05:28Z")
> [@SanDiegoTim](#): > > Face to face? Yes. It’s a bad idea to argue face-to-face, but that’s not what you asked in the OP. ---
**Author:** ![Telemark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/telemark/32/372_2.png) [@Telemark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Telemark)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2010, 3:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mlb-catcher-umpire-relationship/554767/11 "2010-09-23T15:28:54Z")
> [@silenus](#): > > They’re both targets, so they try to get along as well. Note what happenes when the catcher misses a pitch and the umpire gets hit. The catcher will usually go out to the mound for a conference, giving the ump a chance to catch his breath and such. Umps will return the favor by doing a bit of plate maintenence if the catcher gets tagged with a pitch. This is one of my favorite little inside things in baseball. Most folks in the ballpark or on the TV might not notice, but it enhances my appreciation of the game to see when this happens. ---
**Author:** ![Enright3](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/enright3/32/2897_2.png) [@Enright3](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Enright3)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2010, 3:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mlb-catcher-umpire-relationship/554767/12 "2010-09-23T15:30:14Z")
MSBL/NCAA/High School/Youth Umpire checking in here. Personally I always like a catcher who’s willing to talk a little bit to the umpire. I agree with what the people above said… If I called a pitch, and the catcher turned around and questioned my call; I’d have a problem with that. There IS a rule that says you can’t argue balls and strikes. The reality is that if you’re consistent, that’s all the pitcher and catcher want. They may not like you’re strike zone, but consistency gives them something to work with. IME the first inning or so is an exercise in finding out where your corners are. I have no problem with a catcher asking me (while facing forward) “Where was that pitch?” I can give them them a “It was too low” or whatever. Sometimes they’ll even get the: “Catch, I missed that one. If he throws it there again, you’ll get that strike.” They appreciate that. Sometimes as an umpire you miss a pitch, and you KNOW you missed a pitch, but you can’t take it back. You can’t un-ring the bell (as they say). I’ve always thought about starting an ask the umpire thread… I’m still not quite ready though. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Dread\_Pirate\_Jimbo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dread_pirate_jimbo/32/3897_2.png) [@Dread\_Pirate\_Jimbo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dread_Pirate_Jimbo)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2010, 3:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mlb-catcher-umpire-relationship/554767/13 "2010-09-23T15:33:25Z")
Catchers are taught at a very early age to establish a repore with the umpire and try to build a friendship. Part of that is to never show your friend up, which means that if you aren’t happy with an ump’s call, you do so with your mask on, while facing the pitcher, so it’s just between you and him. Even at my level, with kids in the 15-18 age range, a catcher can get away with just about anything short of a personal insult so long as he says it stays in that faced-away format. As noted above, it’s really all about respect and maintaining the perception that the umpire’s authority is not being questioned. You show the umpire up and you run the risk of getting ejected. You become his best friend, block every pitch, talk pleasantly to him most of the time, and you can have some frank discussions about the strike zone AND you might even get the benefit of the doubt a time or two on those borderline calls, which is often enough of an edge to turn a potential loss into a potential win. ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2010, 3:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mlb-catcher-umpire-relationship/554767/14 "2010-09-23T15:38:04Z")
> [@Dread\_Pirate\_Jimbo](#): > > Catchers are taught at a very early age to establish a repore with the umpire Just so you know, the word is [rapport](http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/rapport). ---
**Author:** ![Enright3](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/enright3/32/2897_2.png) [@Enright3](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Enright3)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2010, 3:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mlb-catcher-umpire-relationship/554767/15 "2010-09-23T15:41:50Z")
Right On Jimbo. Part of my pregame with the coaches usually includes: “I want to officiate your game as fairly as possible, and I expect you to hold me accountable for all of my calls. If you have a question about a call; call ‘time’ and POLITELY TALK to the umpire who made the call. If it’s something we can go for help on, we will. Judgment calls are not negotiable.” ---
**Author:** ![Munch](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/munch/32/5281_2.png) [@Munch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Munch)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2010, 3:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mlb-catcher-umpire-relationship/554767/16 "2010-09-23T15:48:25Z")
> [@Enright3](#): > > I’ve always thought about starting an ask the umpire thread… I’m still not quite ready though. 🙂 Still waiting on that stronger prescription, Blue? 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Morgenstern](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Morgenstern](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Morgenstern)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2010, 3:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mlb-catcher-umpire-relationship/554767/17 "2010-09-23T15:50:03Z")
It’s probably more a matter of the catcher not wanting to divert his attention from the game by turning around. My guess. ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2010, 3:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mlb-catcher-umpire-relationship/554767/18 "2010-09-23T15:53:00Z")
Moving to the Game Room from GQ. Colibri General Questions Moderator ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2010, 4:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mlb-catcher-umpire-relationship/554767/19 "2010-09-23T16:24:13Z")
> [@Munch](#): > > > [@Enright3](#): > > > > I’ve always thought about starting an ask the umpire thread… I’m still not quite ready though. 🙂 > > Still waiting on that stronger prescription, Blue? 🙂 Still trying to teach the dog to type. ---
**Author:** ![Dread\_Pirate\_Jimbo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dread_pirate_jimbo/32/3897_2.png) [@Dread\_Pirate\_Jimbo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dread_Pirate_Jimbo)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2010, 6:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mlb-catcher-umpire-relationship/554767/20 "2010-09-23T18:19:39Z")
> [@Exapno\_Mapcase](#): > > > [@Dread\_Pirate\_Jimbo](#): > > > > Catchers are taught at a very early age to establish a repore with the umpire > > Just so you know, the word is [rapport](http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/rapport). Guilty as charged, thanks. I probably shouldn’t post before I’m fully awake in the morning… **Enright3** , I’ve gone after a couple umpires in my years as a coach, for particularly awful calls, and I’ve never been thrown out yet, even after telling one umpire that he was “terrible” to his face (on that occasion, my batter had just gotten hit in the shoulder with a fastball and I was told he didn’t make a “good enough” attempt to get out of the way. I snapped.). So I guess I must be handling my end of things okay. 🙂 [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mlb-catcher-umpire-relationship/554767.md?page=2)