# MLB Contempating DH Rule for NL by 2017 **URL:** \ **Category:** The Game Room\ **Created:** [January 21, 2016, 10:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mlb-contempating-dh-rule-for-nl-by-2017/743834 "2016-01-21T22:56:11Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![harmonicamoon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/65b543/32.png) [@harmonicamoon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/harmonicamoon)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2016, 11:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mlb-contempating-dh-rule-for-nl-by-2017/743834/41 "2016-01-22T23:58:55Z")
> [@RickJay](#): > > I mean, when I say Johnson was bad, I don’t mean he was bad the way a major leaguer is bad. Not only was he bad, on the mound, but he was also ugly. But, pitch, he could! ---
**Author:** ![Typo\_Negative](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/typo_negative/32/484_2.png) [@Typo\_Negative](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Typo_Negative)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2016, 12:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mlb-contempating-dh-rule-for-nl-by-2017/743834/42 "2016-01-23T00:03:09Z")
> [@Peremensoe](#): > > It has not. The choice of _when_ to remove a starter is a factor in lots of games, and I’ve seen more than a couple lost by the first reliever. But does this bit strategy add to or diminish your enjoyment of the game? For me, it diminishes it. I’m not going to berate anyone who doesn’t share my opinion, but I don’t the pitcher coming to bat is anything but laughable. I would rather see an actual hitter come up. So, I am all for it. _I don’t think it will happen,_ but I’m for it. ---
**Author:** ![Thudlow\_Boink](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thudlow_boink/32/320_2.png) [@Thudlow\_Boink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thudlow_Boink)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2016, 12:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mlb-contempating-dh-rule-for-nl-by-2017/743834/43 "2016-01-23T00:10:34Z")
> [@kurtisokc](#): > > I know I’m in the minority, but I like the DH. My thought is that a batting line up should consist of nine hitters, not eight hitters and an automatic out. I swear, the next time a DH advocate uses the phrase “automatic out,” I’m reaching for the rolleyes smiley. Yeah, that’s why the outfielders sit down and rest every time the opposing pitcher is up. To call NL starting pitchers an “automatic out” is exaggeration to the point of falsehood, and it doesn’t help your case if it isn’t true. > [@](#): > > My response to those who argue that pitchers should have to hit like any other defensive player is that pitchers aren’t like other defensive players. The pitcher is the only player who is involved in literally every play (while he is on the field.) Arguably, the catcher is as well. > [@](#): > > Their defensive role is so decisive that they are the only players who stats include wins and losses. Surely you know that’s a controversy of its own. For the record, my vote is to keep things as they are, but cut down on, if not eliminate altogether, interleague play during the regular season. ---
**Author:** ![crypto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/b3f665/32.png) [@crypto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/crypto)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2016, 1:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mlb-contempating-dh-rule-for-nl-by-2017/743834/44 "2016-01-23T01:40:20Z")
Put me in the “PLEASE DON’T” camp. The DH is terrible on so many levels. I like NL baseball, which is the only real baseball left. The pitcher is a player and should have to take his turn at bat. It is a lot easier to throw at someone if you never have to face the other team’s pitcher. If the NL actually goes through with this, I will have a very tough time watching baseball again. ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2016, 2:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mlb-contempating-dh-rule-for-nl-by-2017/743834/45 "2016-01-23T02:13:39Z")
> [@Thudlow\_Boink](#): > > And if pitchers’ fielding skills weren’t a concern _at all_, they wouldn’t award Gold Gloves to pitchers. Sure, a pitcher’s ability to actually pitch is far more important than anything else, but their other skills can make a difference and therefore do matter and make the game more interesting. Of course they can affect the outcome of the game. But the degree to which they do isn’t factored in to a team’s choice of what pitchers to acquire, promote, trade for, etc. As terrible a fielder as Randy Johnson was, the difference between him and a terrific fielding pitcher was maybe six or seven runs in an entire year. And he was just super bad; the difference between an average fielding pitcher and a great one might be three runs. Any measurable difference in pitching skill outweighs that. ---
**Author:** ![Munch](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/munch/32/5281_2.png) [@Munch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Munch)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2016, 2:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mlb-contempating-dh-rule-for-nl-by-2017/743834/46 "2016-01-23T02:33:37Z")
> [@Thudlow\_Boink](#): > > And if pitchers’ fielding skills weren’t a concern _at all_, they wouldn’t award Gold Gloves to pitchers. The existence of the Gold Glove award is not evidence of anything other than Rawlings’ ability to self-promote. ---
**Author:** ![OldGuy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/3bc359/32.png) [@OldGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/OldGuy)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2016, 3:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mlb-contempating-dh-rule-for-nl-by-2017/743834/47 "2016-01-23T03:14:01Z")
> [@Thudlow\_Boink](#): > > I swear, the next time a DH advocate uses the phrase “automatic out,” I’m reaching for the rolleyes smiley. Yeah, that’s why the outfielders sit down and rest every time the opposing pitcher is up. To call NL starting pitchers an “automatic out” is exaggeration to the point of falsehood, and it doesn’t help your case if it isn’t true. Yes they are not "automatic outs, but even if they were, they might not be if the outfielders were sitting down. I’ve never heard anyone argue that pitchers never fly out to the outfield. In fact I’ll bet if you didn’t let outfielders catch the fly balls of pitchers, that quite a few of them would have batting averages among the best in the leagues. It doesn’t help your case to exaggerate to the point of falsehood. ---
**Author:** ![GreenElf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/9de053/32.png) [@GreenElf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GreenElf)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2016, 3:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mlb-contempating-dh-rule-for-nl-by-2017/743834/48 "2016-01-23T03:48:58Z")
Please keep the pitchers BA’s in perspective, peeps. Some AL teams (which I won’t name :mad:) have a DH that bats .220 or even below mendoza. Sure, there’s a few DH’s worthy of the title, but many of them aren’t much better than a pitcher at the plate other than slugging %. ---
**Author:** ![Defensive\_Indifference](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/defensive_indifference/32/6502_2.png) [@Defensive\_Indifference](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Defensive_Indifference)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2016, 4:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mlb-contempating-dh-rule-for-nl-by-2017/743834/49 "2016-01-23T04:09:18Z")
Like a lot of others here, I dislike the DH, but I’m bracing myself for its inevitable arrival in the NL. When it comes, I’m not sure what my reaction will be. Baseball is the only sport I pay any attention to. Even though I viscerally hate the DH, I’ll probably continue watching. What’s my alternative? Watching giant guys give each other concussions for a few hours every Sunday? Watching a big orange ball drop into a hoop 100 times a night? I used to be a big hockey fan. I could try to steel myself to having my heart broken by the Blues every year again. I suppose I’ll get used to the DH eventually. ---
**Author:** ![hajario](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hajario/32/171_2.png) [@hajario](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hajario)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2016, 4:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mlb-contempating-dh-rule-for-nl-by-2017/743834/50 "2016-01-23T04:11:56Z")
Every year I become less and less of a sports fan. No real reason other than I am just finding other things more interesting now. There was a time when this would have pissed me off but I don’t care either way now. ---
**Author:** ![Bullitt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bullitt/32/5725_2.png) [@Bullitt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bullitt)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2016, 4:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mlb-contempating-dh-rule-for-nl-by-2017/743834/51 "2016-01-23T04:16:36Z")
Dump the DH! Real men swing a bat. ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2016, 4:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mlb-contempating-dh-rule-for-nl-by-2017/743834/52 "2016-01-23T04:23:02Z")
> [@GreenElf](#): > > Please keep the pitchers BA’s in perspective, peeps. Some AL teams (which I won’t name :mad:) have a DH that bats .220 or even below mendoza. Sure, there’s a few DH’s worthy of the title, but many of them aren’t much better than a pitcher at the plate other than slugging %. How many players have had a prolonged stay at DH batting under .220? By all means name them. ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2016, 4:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mlb-contempating-dh-rule-for-nl-by-2017/743834/53 "2016-01-23T04:50:09Z")
> [@RickJay](#): > > How many players have had a prolonged stay at DH batting under .220? By all means name them. Adam Dunn of the White Sox would be at least one candidate. ---
**Author:** ![John\_DiFool](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_difool/32/19543_2.png) [@John\_DiFool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_DiFool)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2016, 1:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mlb-contempating-dh-rule-for-nl-by-2017/743834/54 "2016-01-23T13:26:58Z")
> [@RickJay](#): > > As terrible a fielder as Randy Johnson was, the difference between him and a terrific fielding pitcher was maybe six or seven runs in an entire year. **And he was just super bad; the difference between an average fielding pitcher and a great one might be three runs.** Any measurable difference in pitching skill outweighs that. Having watched Greg Maddux for a number of years, I take issue with the bolded part. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2016, 1:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mlb-contempating-dh-rule-for-nl-by-2017/743834/55 "2016-01-23T13:33:07Z")
Fuck ---
**Author:** ![Munch](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/munch/32/5281_2.png) [@Munch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Munch)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2016, 3:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mlb-contempating-dh-rule-for-nl-by-2017/743834/56 "2016-01-23T15:56:36Z")
> [@John\_DiFool](#): > > Having watched Greg Maddux for a number of years, I take issue with the bolded part. How so? Advanced fielding metrics are somewhat new - Maddux’s numbers only go back to 2003, about a quarter of his career. In those 6 years, he saved 25 runs. So 100 on his career? Standing on the mound and not moving an inch for 23 years would have bumped his career ERA from 3.16 to 3.36. Actively kicking the ball away from the other defenders to account for -100 runs on his career would bump it up to 3.51. ---
**Author:** ![UltraVires](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ecccb3/32.png) [@UltraVires](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UltraVires)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2016, 4:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mlb-contempating-dh-rule-for-nl-by-2017/743834/57 "2016-01-23T16:21:54Z")
I think fans in NL parks should stand and boo (or alternatively turn their backs) during the entire time the DH is at the plate, for both the home and away team, each and every at bat for the first six innings, for the entire year. Maybe that would stop the powers that be. Seriously, why is MLB forcing this? Of course, my friends and I do not represent the majority of baseball fans, but I would estimate that NL fans are probably 90%-10% against the DH rule. At some point this coddling of pitchers has to stop. Last year, the Pirates did not have a single complete game for the first time in history. That change to the game is very disappointing. Change the rule that starting pitchers must pitch 5 innings to qualify for a win and make it 7. Ban counting pitches. I remember a game where a pitcher had a one hit shutout in the eighth inning, but once he hit 100 pitches, out he comes. Wouldn’t it do more for the morale of the pitching staff to allow these guys to get a complete game shutout on their record? Why is 100 such a magic number? Just because it is a round number? Oh, yes, and ban lights from Wrigley and send a cruise missile into that stupid jumbotron. ---
**Author:** ![Oredigger77](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/oredigger77/32/3181_2.png) [@Oredigger77](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oredigger77)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2016, 6:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mlb-contempating-dh-rule-for-nl-by-2017/743834/58 "2016-01-23T18:42:56Z")
One of the reasons that I respect Kershaw is that a couple of years ago he got pissed that he was getting yanked from close games when he was pitching well because he was a liability at bat. He built a batting cage and spends time in the off season improving his hitting. He went from hitting 0.076 in his first three seasons to .225 in his fourth. There is always room for players who are so spectacular at one aspect of the game that it outweighs how terrible they are at others and I am ok with pitchers mostly being a wasted at bat as long as they are good enough on the mound but the best players are those who are good at everything and I think it’ll be a shame when pitchers become unable to show how great they can be overall. One of the things I remember most about Jim Abbot was his fielding since watching his switch his glove so he could pitch and field was awesome. I’ll be bummed when the DH comes to the NL but people love offense and hate defense and it has ruined most football games for me and I’m sure my enjoyment of baseball will drop as well when the abomination comes. ---
**Author:** ![crypto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/b3f665/32.png) [@crypto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/crypto)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2016, 6:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mlb-contempating-dh-rule-for-nl-by-2017/743834/59 "2016-01-23T18:59:38Z")
Ok For shots and grins, I ran a few quick stats for the last 3 years These are averages: The number of runs scored per team in NL/AL per game 2015 4.11/4.38 2014 3.95/4.17 2013 4.01/4.33 That is not much of a difference at all. We are talking less than a 1/3 of a run/game (at the most) over the last 3 seasons. The idea that the DH has added a massive amount of offense is just nonsense. I did not do a detailed analysis obviously, and did not take into account various ballparks, or intra-league games. I am guessing someone has already run those numbers. I remember looking at runs scored/game when the DH was first adopted, and I have a vague memory that a couple of years showed the NL outscoring the AL. Now, I didn’t write that stuff down, and maybe my memory is bad. But the last three years shows only a small difference in the number of runs scored in a given game. For me, there is simply not a compelling reason to remove the pitcher and add another bat. Having the pitcher bat DOES add strategy to the game. Sorry if the younger folks don’t see it/don’t like it. If the game needed this change to make it more appealing, I would be fine with it. However, this does not significantly change anything. What it WILL do is alienate older fans like myself, which may be fine with MLB. But I think it is a mistake. Adding an older, overweight power hitter who can no longer field to a team’s line-up isn’t all that exciting either. He goes up to bat and swings away… Fine. But seeing him strike out, or not able to run the bases is just as offensive (and IMO moreso) than watching a pitcher go to the plate. There ARE finer subtleties to the game (like laying down a sacrifice bunt) that some of us still appreciate. ---
**Author:** ![John\_DiFool](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_difool/32/19543_2.png) [@John\_DiFool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_DiFool)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2016, 7:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mlb-contempating-dh-rule-for-nl-by-2017/743834/60 "2016-01-23T19:51:53Z")
> [@Munch](#): > > How so? Advanced fielding metrics are somewhat new - Maddux’s numbers only go back to 2003, about a quarter of his career. In those 6 years, he saved 25 runs. So 100 on his career? Standing on the mound and not moving an inch for 23 years would have bumped his career ERA from 3.16 to 3.36. Actively kicking the ball away from the other defenders to account for -100 runs on his career would bump it up to 3.51. He was 37 in the first year there. 3 simply seemed to me to be a rather paltry number for someone of his ability; I can imagine regressing those numbers backwards into his prime, where it might easily be 4-10 per year or so. \ [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mlb-contempating-dh-rule-for-nl-by-2017/743834.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mlb-contempating-dh-rule-for-nl-by-2017/743834.md?page=4)