# MLB - error on ball four
**URL:** https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mlb-error-on-ball-four/1032775
**Category:** The Game Room
**Tags:** baseball-mlb
**Created:** [September 2, 2026, 7:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mlb-error-on-ball-four/1032775 "2026-09-02T19:44:12Z")
**Posts on this page:** 13
**Page:** 1
### Author:  [@Mark\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mark_Finn)
#### Post date: [September 2, 2026, 7:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mlb-error-on-ball-four/1032775/1 "2026-09-02T19:44:12Z")
I’m sure this is the first time I’ve seen an error on ball four. Toronto at Cleveland. Toronto runner on first; one out; full count on batter. Runner is on the move with the pitch - called a ball. Meanwhile - the catcher throws to second (maybe thinking that the pitch was a strike) to catch the runner stealing. The ball goes into centre field, and the runner makes it to third. The ball was in motion, so it was still live - even though a walk had been awarded. An error was called on the play.
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### Author:  [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)
#### Post date: [September 2, 2026, 7:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mlb-error-on-ball-four/1032775/2 "2026-09-02T19:49:40Z")
That’s a novel one for sure. If not unique, certainly rare.
So who errored? Errors have to be (dis-)credited to somebody. Catcher for throwing at all? Catcher for throwing it uncatch-ably? Whoever was guarding second (2B or SS) for failure to catch & tag?
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### Author:  [@Railer13](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Railer13)
#### Post date: [September 2, 2026, 8:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mlb-error-on-ball-four/1032775/3 "2026-09-02T20:15:48Z")
> [@LSLGuy](#):
>
> So who errored?
It was the catcher.
> The only run the Jays managed came when Cleveland’s Patrick Bailey, one of the best defensive catchers in the game, came up throwing to second base after Ernie Clement took ball four with Okamoto running.
>
> Bailey’s completely unnecessary throw (Clement had walked, forcing Okamoto to second) sailed into centre field, moving Okamoto to third from whence he scored on a Williams wild pitch.
> **[Mike Wilner: Blue Jays vs. Guardians: Dreams of October hit September speed...](https://www.thestar.com/sports/blue-jays/blue-jays-vs-guardians-dreams-of-october-hit-september-speed-bump-in-cleveland/article_14047e54-da84-4ea3-8dd4-35cedfcac6a9.html)**
>
> Gavin Williams struck out 13 Jays Tuesday night, Cleveland’s light-hitting Patrick Bailey went deep.
And verified by the [box score](https://www.espn.com/mlb/boxscore/_/gameId/401816763), as the only error of the game was charged to Bailey, the catcher.
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### Author:  [@Munch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Munch)
#### Post date: [September 2, 2026, 8:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mlb-error-on-ball-four/1032775/4 "2026-09-02T20:24:18Z")
> [@Mark\_Finn](#):
>
> The ball was in motion, so it was still live - even though a walk had been awarded.
Balls are always live after a walk.
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### Author:  [@Petek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Petek)
#### Post date: [September 2, 2026, 10:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mlb-error-on-ball-four/1032775/5 "2026-09-02T22:20:17Z")
Doesn’t the catcher have to allow for the possibility that the ball call will be changed to a strike after an appeal? In that case the runner at first would be liable to be tagged out at second.
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### Author:  [@Jas09](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jas09)
#### Post date: [September 2, 2026, 11:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mlb-error-on-ball-four/1032775/6 "2026-09-02T23:03:40Z")
No, I don’t believe so. Except for that weird PCA play earlier this year where he over-slid second base and got tagged out.
As I understand it, if the runner had been safe at second he would have stayed at second if the ball 4 call was overturned. If the runner was tagged out prior to the base he would have been returned to first once the walk was overturned (because he was not liable to be put out prior to reaching second base).
This kind of unnecessary throw is seen all the time in little league, by the way. Can lead to some funny plays.
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### Author:  [@Railer13](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Railer13)
#### Post date: [September 2, 2026, 11:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mlb-error-on-ball-four/1032775/7 "2026-09-02T23:12:27Z")
That’s an interesting scenario. If the pitch is strike three and the runner is tagged out while attempting to steal, he’s out, full stop. If the pitch is ball four, obviously he’s entitled to the base. But then if ball four is overturned to strike three, that brings up the situation where the umpires would have to decide if the runner was indeed tagged out before reaching second base.
I don’t think they would send him back to first, because he voluntarily left first base attempting to steal second.
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### Author:  [@Petek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Petek)
#### Post date: [September 2, 2026, 11:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mlb-error-on-ball-four/1032775/8 "2026-09-02T23:33:32Z")
I was thinking of a situation that occurred several years ago. Checking the MLB rules for [replay review](https://www.mlb.com/glossary/rules/replay-review), I found that:
“If replay review results in a change to a call that had been made on the field, the replay official shall exercise his discretion to place both clubs in the position they would have been in had the call on the field been correct.”
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### Author:  [@Jas09](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jas09)
#### Post date: [September 2, 2026, 11:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mlb-error-on-ball-four/1032775/9 "2026-09-02T23:38:28Z")
Sure, but they are never going to call out a baserunner that was advancing from first to second on a walk. That would be completely unfair.
Wow, after I replied I read some more and apparently it is not at all clear. Perhaps the umpire could call the runner out. I find that insane.
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### Author:  [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)
#### Post date: [September 2, 2026, 11:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mlb-error-on-ball-four/1032775/10 "2026-09-02T23:59:11Z")
Depends on the sequence of events.
If the runner is running because he thought he was stealing (maybe he lost the pitch count), or was just taking a good jump on what he hoped would be a base hit, he’s still trying full bore when he gets to second. If the catcher throws the ball to the defender at second, that guy is going to try his darnednest to apply the tag. He might be wondering why the ball came to him, but better to keep playing than stand there stupidly trying to decipher the situation. The ump staring at second base is positioned to make the call and can make his decision as to safe/out the same way. None of the three of them should quit playing their roles full-on until time is unequivocally called and the ball is absolutely positively dead.
Now if plate review changes ball to strike, the ump covering second has his answer ready on what should happen to the runner on what turned into a steal: safe or out.
I think that’s the intent.
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### Author:  [@Railer13](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Railer13)
#### Post date: [September 3, 2026, 2:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mlb-error-on-ball-four/1032775/11 "2026-09-03T02:42:30Z")
> [@LSLGuy](#):
>
> If the runner is running because he thought he was stealing
In this situation, the runner was running on a 3-2 pitch. I’ve seen this situation, and just as you said, the catcher will generally throw the ball, the defender will catch it and apply the tag, and the umpire will make the call. So, ball or strike, the play should be adjudicated, and the call will stand if the pitch was a strike, and it’s moot if the pitch was a ball.
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### Author:  [@Spiff](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spiff)
#### Post date: [September 3, 2026, 4:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mlb-error-on-ball-four/1032775/12 "2026-09-03T16:05:52Z")
Railer13 hinted at it here, but I think it needs more explanation. Posters here all seem to have a mistaken impression that the catcher should not have thrown the ball after a ball four call.
This kind of thinking is faulty, namely because a catcher does not have the time to wait to hear the call from the ump.
As an amateur baseball catcher for more than 3 decades (I retired in 2011 at age 51 – bad knees), I can tell you that a good catcher is already coming out of his croutch when he sees in the corner of his eye the runner at first taking off.
He’s only slightly doing so, not to get him into the strike zone for a possible interference call, or to get high enough to block the umpire’s view, but he’s getting all his muscles primed and into a position to throw.
An ump’s call does not come fast enough. If the catcher waits until he hears ‘strike three’ before beginning to start his throw, that runner will be safe because this means the catcher must 1) hear the call (which may come quickly, or not so quickly); 2) mentally process the call (was it ‘strike’ or ‘ball’?); 3) have the brain start sending signals to the throwing muscles if the brain determines it heard ‘strike three’; and 4) have those signals arrive and get the right muscles to move.
Granted, these physiological events take milliseconds, but even milliseconds of delay are enough to make the difference between a ‘safe’ call or an ‘out’ call at second base, especially in the major leagues. But anyway, the majority of the delay happens because of the ump.
tl;dr The catcher can’t wait to hear the ump’s call; it will lead to too much delay for the catcher to be successful.
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### Author:  [@Jasmine](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jasmine)
#### Post date: [September 3, 2026, 4:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mlb-error-on-ball-four/1032775/13 "2026-09-03T16:22:09Z")
That was the correct call. In fact, I’ve seen a wild pitch thrown on ball 4 during an intentional walk with the runner scoring from 3rd base.