# MLB fans, begin the mourning. **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [August 20, 2004, 4:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mlb-fans-begin-the-mourning/260666 "2004-08-20T04:01:41Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Typo\_Negative](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/typo_negative/32/484_2.png) [@Typo\_Negative](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Typo_Negative)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2004, 8:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mlb-fans-begin-the-mourning/260666/21 "2004-08-20T08:28:33Z")
> [@kaylasdad99](#): > > It ALMOST doesn’t even matter that electric lights are now contaminating the playing field at Wrigley Field. I don’t know if there is any going back to the days of goodness and rightness. . What the hell does goodness and rightness have to do with playing in old stadium without lights? ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2004, 11:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mlb-fans-begin-the-mourning/260666/22 "2004-08-20T11:55:29Z")
…Which also seems to be falling apart. That’s probably the fault of the lights and the DH, though. ---
**Author:** ![chique](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/4491bb/32.png) [@chique](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/chique)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2004, 11:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mlb-fans-begin-the-mourning/260666/23 "2004-08-20T11:55:40Z")
A couple years back Satan wanted to take my Twinkies away. The following season they made it to the AL playoffs. I couldn’t help but think that the Twins had a cardboard cut out of Selig in the clubhouse a la _Major League_…only instead of taking clothes off they slowly covered him with cow shit… ---
**Author:** ![duffer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/duffer/32/1026_2.png) [@duffer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/duffer)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2004, 12:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mlb-fans-begin-the-mourning/260666/24 "2004-08-20T12:03:34Z")
The Twinkies reference reminded me of something. Did I hear right that Yankee’s Stadium was ending sales of Cracker Jack and replacing it with Fiddle-Faddle? Or some other confectionary? This would put Steinbrenner as 2nd in command. But Selig is still Satan. He’s got me so pissed I’m almost ready to cheer for the North-Siders :eek: ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2004, 12:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mlb-fans-begin-the-mourning/260666/25 "2004-08-20T12:13:52Z")
> [@duffer](#): > > The Twinkies reference reminded me of something. Did I hear right that Yankee’s Stadium was ending sales of Cracker Jack and replacing it with Fiddle-Faddle? Or some other confectionary? They were replacing it with some other snack very similar to Cracker Jack (CJ apparently refused to sell their crap in bags or something and the other stuff beat it in taste tests), so who gives a fuck? It lasted a week or so and the team went back to Cracker Jack. You’re not suggesting this is an important part of baseball, are you? ---
**Author:** ![duffer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/duffer/32/1026_2.png) [@duffer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/duffer)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2004, 12:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mlb-fans-begin-the-mourning/260666/26 "2004-08-20T12:34:31Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > They were replacing it with some other snack very similar to Cracker Jack (CJ apparently refused to sell their crap in bags or something and the other stuff beat it in taste tests), so who gives a fuck? It lasted a week or so and the team went back to Cracker Jack. You’re not suggesting this is an important part of baseball, are you? No it’s not important what they sell for snaks. I was going for the irony of singing “Take me out to the ballpark”. Guess it wasn’t spelled out. I’ll try to avoid _alluding_ to anything in the future. ---
**Author:** ![Exgineer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/a88e4f/32.png) [@Exgineer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exgineer)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2004, 1:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mlb-fans-begin-the-mourning/260666/27 "2004-08-20T13:08:37Z")
I knew I was in love with **Kallessa** for a reason. If only she were a Red Sox fan. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2004, 1:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mlb-fans-begin-the-mourning/260666/28 "2004-08-20T13:12:47Z")
Naw, Selig is just the owners’ errand boy. Don’t hate him for taking the money to take the heat. He isn’t really in charge of MLB; I’d say Steinbrenner, Colangelo, and Angelos have more say in running the operation. ---
**Author:** ![duffer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/duffer/32/1026_2.png) [@duffer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/duffer)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2004, 1:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mlb-fans-begin-the-mourning/260666/29 "2004-08-20T13:44:00Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > Naw, Selig is just the owners’ errand boy. Don’t hate him for taking the money to take the heat. He isn’t really in charge of MLB; I’d say Steinbrenner, Colangelo, and Angelos have more say in running the operation. He **IS** a fucking owner! Please don’t tell me you think he actually sold the franchise to his half-witted daughter and her worthless husband without any influence! _deep breath_ I’ll leave it at that…for now. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2004, 1:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mlb-fans-begin-the-mourning/260666/30 "2004-08-20T13:53:57Z")
There’s no discrepancy there, **duffer**. He’s an owner, one whose influence over the others has derived from his willingness to step out front and take the heat - just like the kid back in sixth grade who’d do anything on a dare, and take all the blame from the teachers if the group got caught, just to get the other kids to like him. It doesn’t matter if the Brewers are run day-to-day by his clueless self or his clueless daughter. The effect is the same. ---
**Author:** ![Neurotik](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/91b2a8/32.png) [@Neurotik](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Neurotik)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2004, 2:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mlb-fans-begin-the-mourning/260666/31 "2004-08-20T14:09:41Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > It doesn’t matter if the Brewers are run day-to-day by his clueless self or his clueless daughter. The effect is the same. That the Brewers will continue to suck? Anyhoo…my opinion on Selig is mixed. On the one hand, I like the wild card (although I can see it’s bad points), I love the efforts that he’s made into getting more minorities in the front office level and I like the intertnationalization (?) of the game under his watch. Unfortunately, I hate his sleazy methods of getting new stadiums built. I absolutely hate the travesty that was the Loria-Henry-Expos musical chairs of ownership, I detest the revenue sharing plan that resulted in it being more profitable for an owner to dismantle a team and sit around to collect his check than to actually put money and effort into building a successful team. I hate what he allowed Loria to do to the Expos. I hate that Loria was then awarded another franchise. In fact, I just hate the entire Expos scandal completely. I hate FOX being awarded playoff baseball - just to trash it with unending Sprint and TV product placements. I hate the unending interleague play that now takes up practically half the season and distorts the Wild Card race - leave it at the regional rivalries for two three-game series and end it. I hate how he trashed his own product for years and years in order to gain leverage on cities to build stadiums and on the union. There’s probably more, but I can’t deal with it. Suffice to say that I was looking forward to 2006 and now he’s going to be commissioner for life. What a jerk. ---
**Author:** ![duffer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/duffer/32/1026_2.png) [@duffer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/duffer)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2004, 2:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mlb-fans-begin-the-mourning/260666/32 "2004-08-20T14:19:50Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > There’s no discrepancy there, **duffer**. He’s an owner, one whose influence over the others has derived from his willingness to step out front and take the heat - just like the kid back in sixth grade who’d do anything on a dare, and take all the blame from the teachers if the group got caught, just to get the other kids to like him. > > It doesn’t matter if the Brewers are run day-to-day by his clueless self or his clueless daughter. The effect is the same. Does anyone have an extra bottle of Excederin? I’m down to about 20. And banging my head against the wall is not helping the pain. **Elvis** , please tell me you’re going for a whoosh. You see no problem with Selig still, in effect, owning the team? The commissioner is not allowed to have any business interest in a team. And assuming (as I and many Brewers fans do) he still is running the team, he’s proven himself incompetent over the last 20 years. Look at the record for the Brew Crew. It’s horrid since they’ve been in the World Series. I’m so tempted to bring into this a political slant you keep bitching about, but that can wait for another time. There are only so many former CEO’s we can use againt previous corporations. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![thermalribbon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/2bfe46/32.png) [@thermalribbon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/thermalribbon)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2004, 2:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mlb-fans-begin-the-mourning/260666/33 "2004-08-20T14:29:04Z")
> [@](#): > > **Duffer** > Steroid testing? Do you really need me to include links that show how many times you can fail a drug test before incurring significant punishment? It’s a joke. The MLBPA has Selig by the short hairs on this, he punked out on this in essence. He is the worst commissioner since Kennesaw. And even Kennesaw was somewhat respectable. You are missing the point. Not that the policy is perfect, or even good, but that he got the player’s union to concede on the basis that it is in the best interest of baseball. The relationship between the players and the owners has been lousy, and for Selig to be able to get them to agree to something based on mutual interest is a triumph. ---
**Author:** ![wonky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wonky/32/393_2.png) [@wonky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wonky)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2004, 2:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mlb-fans-begin-the-mourning/260666/34 "2004-08-20T14:44:09Z")
> [@Neurotik](#): > > I hate how he trashed his own product for years and years in order to gain leverage on cities to build stadiums and on the union. This is what I can’t get over. Wild card? Eh, I don’t care. Interleague play? I don’t like it, but I can live with it. But the fact that every media outlet will follow Beelzebud’s lead and trash baseball? That pisses me off. Baseball is constantly “in trouble” or “in decline” or “struggling” even when its attendance and viewership are good. Other sports don’t have commissioners that bemoan their games, or claim their games are dying, or talk about a lack of competitive balance–even when it’s true. But Bud? “Baseball sucks so much we need to contract. We need to get rid of teams! Not _my_ team, of course, but the Twins! Yeah, the Twins! Oh and we’re going to own Montreal and fuck with them and destroy what little remnants of a team they had so that Jeffrey Loria can win a World Series with the Marlins and that’s All Good because Baseball sucks!” ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2004, 2:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mlb-fans-begin-the-mourning/260666/35 "2004-08-20T14:46:49Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > They were replacing it with some other snack very similar to Cracker Jack (CJ apparently refused to sell their crap in bags or something and the other stuff beat it in taste tests), so who gives a fuck? It lasted a week or so and the team went back to Cracker Jack. You’re not suggesting this is an important part of baseball, are you? If it wasn’t an important part of baseball, they wouldn’t have put it into the song. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2004, 2:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mlb-fans-begin-the-mourning/260666/36 "2004-08-20T14:47:49Z")
> [@duffer](#): > > **Elvis** , please tell me you’re going for a whoosh. You see no problem with Selig still, in effect, owning the team? The commissioner is not allowed to have any business interest in a team. No. The commissioner is an administrator hired by the owners, with no one else’s input considered. He represents \*their \* interests, not those of “baseball” despite the pious wording surrounding the creation of the office, which simply replaced a committee of owners. There’s no conflict except perhaps when it comes to divvying up the spoils, and he has little control over that. If you’d rather discuss what should be the situation instead of what is, I’ll certainly agree with you. [/QUOTE] ---
**Author:** ![duffer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/duffer/32/1026_2.png) [@duffer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/duffer)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2004, 2:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mlb-fans-begin-the-mourning/260666/37 "2004-08-20T14:48:04Z")
> [@thermalribbon](#): > > You are missing the point. Not that the policy is perfect, or even good, but that he got the player’s union to concede on the basis that it is in the best interest of baseball. > > The relationship between the players and the owners has been lousy, and for Selig to be able to get them to agree to something based on mutual interest is a triumph. Begin at the 6th paragraph. This is not getting tough. Keep in mind the money even those making League minimum are making when it comes to the fines. Would your boss give you a half dozen chances? [http://cbs.sportsline.com/mlb/story/6832473](http://cbs.sportsline.com/mlb/story/6832473) ---
**Author:** ![duffer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/duffer/32/1026_2.png) [@duffer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/duffer)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2004, 2:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mlb-fans-begin-the-mourning/260666/38 "2004-08-20T14:52:02Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > If you’d rather discuss what should be the situation instead of what is, I’ll certainly agree with you. [/QUOTE] I figured it would be a simple miscommunication. Now focus on the OP and sacrifice a goat in the name of Selig, um, “retiring” 😃 ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2004, 2:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mlb-fans-begin-the-mourning/260666/39 "2004-08-20T14:58:42Z")
Oh, right, this is a rant about what sucks about major-league baseball today. A brief and incomplete list: 1. Player contracts being guaranteed regardless of performance. Too many guys only get motivated in their free-agent years. Lots of laudable exceptions. 2. Player contracts being so high, average salary over $1M/year, that they get arrogant toward the fans who pay them. Lots of laudable exceptions there too. 3. Games are too damn slow. Who wants to spend 3+ hours watching batters step in and out while they tug their caps and scratch their balls, pitchers dumbly staring while they gather their thoughts, half an hour between innings for commercials, endless streams of situational relievers who take more warmup pitches than real ones. 4. The ongoing gang-rape of the Expos by the owners, just so they can have a franchise to screw. They should have been in Washington a decade ago. 5. A fan base stupid enough to pay hundreds of dollars for logo gear, cards, and frickin’ autographs. You’re all fucking crazy, and you’re just feeding the monster. 6. Ticket prices that are pricing the average family out of going to games at all. Sure, they make nice corporate events, and “boys nights out”, but you shouldn’t have to budget for them. Too damn many empty seats making no revenue in too damn many cities. 7. Lack of serious financial equalization, whether through revenue-sharing or any of a host of other methods. With 4 to 1 or better funds, too many teams can’t compete at all, not in the world of free agency. 8. Players who keep a supply of pine tar on their helmets in handy reach. That just looks disgusting (Yes, Manny and Trot, I mean _you_). ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2004, 3:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mlb-fans-begin-the-mourning/260666/40 "2004-08-20T15:01:41Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > The privilege you earn is playing the BEST team in the other league for the title of the BEST team in baseball. Sorry, I’m not buyung that. The standard I cited served baseball and America well for nigh unto a century, and if somebody wants to have a lower standard for interleague play, they can damn well invent their own game, as far as I’m concerned. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mlb-fans-begin-the-mourning/260666.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mlb-fans-begin-the-mourning/260666.md?page=3)