# MLB Hot Stove / Offseason 2013-2014 **URL:** \ **Category:** The Game Room\ **Created:** [November 3, 2013, 11:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mlb-hot-stove-offseason-2013-2014/673013 "2013-11-03T23:35:19Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2013, 9:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mlb-hot-stove-offseason-2013-2014/673013/101 "2013-12-06T21:59:42Z")
> [@BlankSlate](#): > > It’s true, Cano is very, very good. But he isn’t all that much fun to watch. If a guy who bats .300 with power and is a good second baseman isn’t “fun to watch” I have no idea who is. What would make him more fun to watch? Juggling flaming torches? ---
**Author:** ![BlankSlate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/blankslate/32/80_2.png) [@BlankSlate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BlankSlate)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2013, 10:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mlb-hot-stove-offseason-2013-2014/673013/102 "2013-12-06T22:20:43Z")
Dustin Pedroia, for example. Someone who plays with passion, and hustle. Cano acts as if hustle is undignified. ---
**Author:** ![Southern\_Yankee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/southern_yankee/32/2800_2.png) [@Southern\_Yankee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Southern_Yankee)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2013, 11:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mlb-hot-stove-offseason-2013-2014/673013/103 "2013-12-06T23:24:24Z")
When you’re as talented as Cano, as lot of those things look easy. I never had any issues with his effort. If he was 27 I’d probably be fine with that contract. ---
**Author:** ![Ulf\_the\_Unwashed](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/b4bc9f/32.png) [@Ulf\_the\_Unwashed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ulf_the_Unwashed)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2013, 12:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mlb-hot-stove-offseason-2013-2014/673013/104 "2013-12-07T00:30:05Z")
> [@BlankSlate](#): > > Dustin Pedroia, for example. Someone who plays with passion, and hustle. Cano acts as if hustle is undignified. Scrappy white guys _rule_. I never thought of Cano as dogging it. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2013, 12:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mlb-hot-stove-offseason-2013-2014/673013/105 "2013-12-07T00:39:21Z")
> [@BlankSlate](#): > > Dustin Pedroia, for example. Someone who plays with passion, and hustle. Cano acts as if hustle is undignified. Should I do one shot, or two? ---
**Author:** ![Ulf\_the\_Unwashed](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/b4bc9f/32.png) [@Ulf\_the\_Unwashed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ulf_the_Unwashed)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2013, 12:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mlb-hot-stove-offseason-2013-2014/673013/106 "2013-12-07T00:49:33Z")
Oh, two, _please._ ---
**Author:** ![BlankSlate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/blankslate/32/80_2.png) [@BlankSlate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BlankSlate)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2013, 1:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mlb-hot-stove-offseason-2013-2014/673013/107 "2013-12-07T01:24:36Z")
Meh, good riddance. He wasn’t a real Yankee, anyway. ---
**Author:** ![Southern\_Yankee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/southern_yankee/32/2800_2.png) [@Southern\_Yankee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Southern_Yankee)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2013, 1:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mlb-hot-stove-offseason-2013-2014/673013/108 "2013-12-07T01:36:12Z")
> [@BlankSlate](#): > > Meh, good riddance. He wasn’t a real Yankee, anyway. Don’t get me started on Mark Teixeira… ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2013, 2:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mlb-hot-stove-offseason-2013-2014/673013/109 "2013-12-07T02:48:40Z")
> [@BlankSlate](#): > > He wasn’t a real Yankee, anyway. What the heck does that mean? :dubious: He came up in the Yankees organization and was first signed by them in 2001. He’s been a Yankee his entire career. What exactly does it take to be a “real Yankee”? Are there any real Yankees on the team aside from Derek Jeter? This talk of him not being a real Yankee, not playing with passion, not being fun to watch, not performing in the post season, all strikes me as being sour grapes. He was the best player on the team. I’ll be sorry to see him go, although I concede the Yankees were right in not offering the money he was asking for. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2013, 3:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mlb-hot-stove-offseason-2013-2014/673013/110 "2013-12-07T03:17:29Z")
If Cano wasn’t a real Yankee, the Yankees had zero good players last year. This could work out well for the team if they’re going to be more selective about their big signings, and they have several other needs they can fill with this money. But if they had $157 million/7 for Ellsbury and $170/7 million for Cano, they could have found, say, $210 million/8 for Cano and probably kept him. (And yes, that’s still overpaying, but it’s better to pay too much for a better player, is it not?) Cano’s significantly better and more consistently healthy than Ellsbury. That would justify the difference, and even if they couldn’t get Ellsbury for the remaining amount, they could have found other pieces. They had bigger needs than centerfield anyway. It looks like now they’re swapping Granderson and Cano for Ellsbury and Kelly Johnson, which isn’t exactly an upgrade. If they add Choo or Tanaka as well, you can at least see some logic. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2013, 3:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mlb-hot-stove-offseason-2013-2014/673013/111 "2013-12-07T03:19:04Z")
And the Yankees have signed Carlos Beltran for $45 million over three years. ---
**Author:** ![Mister\_Rik](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mister_rik/32/491_2.png) [@Mister\_Rik](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mister_Rik)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2013, 4:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mlb-hot-stove-offseason-2013-2014/673013/112 "2013-12-07T04:52:30Z")
> [@Southern\_Yankee](#): > > Hate to see him go, but I never got the feeling he was the “franchise guy,” even if he had the best stats. I think that kind of contract needs to be for a team changer. I like him, but I don’t know that he’s going to make a huge difference to the Mariners by himself. Not by himself, no. But this move by the M’s might be enough to convince Kendrys Morales to resign (we need him back in the outfield). If nothing else, this signing (if legit — the M’s haven’t confirmed it yet) sends a message that Seattle is serious about winning. We’ve had a hard time attracting big free agents, and this might help persuade Morales and others to come to Seattle. I’m a diehard M’s fan, win or lose, but I naturally prefer “win”. And it’s been a long damn time. ---
**Author:** ![Mister\_Rik](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mister_rik/32/491_2.png) [@Mister\_Rik](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mister_Rik)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2013, 5:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mlb-hot-stove-offseason-2013-2014/673013/113 "2013-12-07T05:12:31Z")
Really good commentary here, with which I fully agree: [Mariners need to add more than Cano to compete](http://mlb.mlb.com/news/article/sea/richard-justice-mariners-need-to-add-more-than-robinson-cano-to-compete?ymd=20131206&content_id=64452284&vkey=news_sea) ---
**Author:** ![Mister\_Rik](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mister_rik/32/491_2.png) [@Mister\_Rik](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mister_Rik)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2013, 5:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mlb-hot-stove-offseason-2013-2014/673013/114 "2013-12-07T05:21:26Z")
> [@Mister\_Rik](#): > > Not by himself, no. But this move by the M’s might be enough to convince Kendrys Morales to resign (we need him back in the outfield). Erm, at DH. Sorry. Beer. ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2013, 6:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mlb-hot-stove-offseason-2013-2014/673013/115 "2013-12-09T18:36:02Z")
Roy Halladay signed a 1-day contract with Toronto today and the retired as a Blue Jay. He’s only 36 but his shoulder is in bad shape and he apparently decided to hang it up rather than spending a year rehabbing. He’s an interesting Hall of Fame case. His career was very short for a Hall of Famer, only 2700 or so innings, but for 10 years he was the best pitcher in baseball, an absolute machine from the moment he got back to the big leagues in mid-2001 through the 2011 season. His career WAR is in the mid-60s, the precise number depending on your source. That’s an extraordinary ten-year run; he was in effect more valuable in those 10.5 seasons than a lot of Hall of Famers were in his entire career. Unfortunately, he got stuck with a team that was okay but not great for most of his run and then when he joined the Phillies they couldn’t make it to the World Series, but you can’t blame Halladay for it. He sure pitched his ass off when he did get a chance in the playoffs. With only 203 career wins, though, he’ll need a few ballots. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2013, 6:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mlb-hot-stove-offseason-2013-2014/673013/116 "2013-12-09T18:43:21Z")
He’ll have my imaginary vote. ---
**Author:** ![cmkeller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cmkeller/32/118_2.png) [@cmkeller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cmkeller)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2013, 7:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mlb-hot-stove-offseason-2013-2014/673013/117 "2013-12-09T19:20:02Z")
I’d say Halladay gets into the Hall of Fame, no problem. Speaking of getting into the Hall of Fame, the Veterans’ Committee has elected Tony LaRussa, Bobby Cox and Joe Torre to the Hall of Fame. I’m not sure that Torre deserves it, I think that given those Yankee teams, Tony Muser could have won four championships. I’m willing to say he was a good manager, though, as he got decent finishes out of some early 80’s Braves teams that totally stank years before and after his tenure. Still, you know that he wasn’t getting into the Hall based on anything other than sitting in the dugout to watch a bunch of superstars ply their trade. Marvin Miller has once again been voted down, and all the MLBPA leaders have absurdly hyperbolic statements decrying that fact. For example: > [@espn.com](#): > > “Words cannot adequately describe the level of disappointment and disbelief I felt when learning that once again the Hall of Fame has chosen to ignore Marvin Miller and his unparalleled contributions to the growth and prosperity of Major League Baseball,” players’ association head Tony Clark said in a statement. Marvin Miller did not contribute to the growth and prosperity of baseball. It made baseball pay more for labor. That’s a drag on growth and prosperity. I’m not saying he did a bad thing - the reserve clause was a terrible injustice - but Major League Baseball’s growth has been very much despite him, not because of him. ---
**Author:** ![Munch](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/munch/32/5281_2.png) [@Munch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Munch)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2013, 7:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mlb-hot-stove-offseason-2013-2014/673013/118 "2013-12-09T19:22:43Z")
His is an interesting case ([Halladay’s career](http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/h/hallaro01.shtml)). Some of those IP numbers are from some long-forgotten era. But like RickJay said, his career WAS very short by Hall standards. In fact, he’d have the lowest number of innings since Sandy Koufax, who we can all agree was a very special case. I think I have to lump Doc in with the likes of Saberhagen, Cone, Wells and Rogers - great pitchers of their time, but just not quite good enough. Maybe I’m wrong - pitchers have undergone a really different way of evaluation these days. It was an amazing 10 year run there - is he actually more comparable to Pedro? ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2013, 7:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mlb-hot-stove-offseason-2013-2014/673013/119 "2013-12-09T19:46:52Z")
> [@cmkeller](#): > > Marvin Miller did not contribute to the growth and prosperity of baseball. It made baseball pay more for labor. That’s a drag on growth and prosperity. I’m not saying he did a bad thing - the reserve clause was a terrible injustice - but Major League Baseball’s growth has been very much despite him, not because of him. And you can see what a drag on prosperity it’s been: team values keep going up and up and up. Miller’s actions were responsible for a great deal of growth and prosperity for _baseball players_, and I think you could argue that if baseball players were still getting tiny salaries (relative to the NBA and NFL), those athletes would be playing other sports. ---
**Author:** ![NDP](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ndp/32/55_2.png) [@NDP](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NDP)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2013, 11:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mlb-hot-stove-offseason-2013-2014/673013/120 "2013-12-09T23:06:46Z")
> [@Munch](#): > > His is an interesting case ([Halladay’s career](http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/h/hallaro01.shtml)). Some of those IP numbers are from some long-forgotten era. But like RickJay said, his career WAS very short by Hall standards. In fact, he’d have the lowest number of innings since Sandy Koufax, who we can all agree was a very special case. > > I think I have to lump Doc in with the likes of Saberhagen, Cone, Wells and Rogers - great pitchers of their time, but just not quite good enough. Maybe I’m wrong - pitchers have undergone a really different way of evaluation these days. It was an amazing 10 year run there - is he actually more comparable to Pedro? Halladay was better than Saberhagen, Cone, Wells, and Rogers but not quite as good as Pedro Martinez. (BTW, is he eligible for the HOF next year?) In terms of the HOF, what will hurt Halladay is the fact his productive years ended relatively early and before he could build up some key career stats. It will be interesting to see how the HOF voters treat Pedro and Curt Schilling because, like Halladay, they ended their careers with win totals in the low 200s (although I am aware wins are not as big a factor in evaluating a pitcher than they used to be). [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mlb-hot-stove-offseason-2013-2014/673013.md?page=5) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mlb-hot-stove-offseason-2013-2014/673013.md?page=7)