# MLB Hot Stove / Offseason / Lockout 2021-2022 **URL:** \ **Category:** The Game Room\ **Tags:** baseball-mlb\ **Created:** [October 15, 2021, 2:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mlb-hot-stove-offseason-lockout-2021-2022/952531 "2021-10-15T02:59:06Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2021, 6:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mlb-hot-stove-offseason-lockout-2021-2022/952531/81 "2021-12-03T18:18:25Z")
Especially by the owners. Expanded playoffs is a rather obvious money-grab by a small bunch of billionaires. Fuck 'em! ---
**Author:** ![What\_Exit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/what_exit/32/10652_2.png) [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2021, 6:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mlb-hot-stove-offseason-lockout-2021-2022/952531/82 "2021-12-03T18:27:01Z")
I have to agree with my esteemed colleague here. ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2021, 7:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mlb-hot-stove-offseason-lockout-2021-2022/952531/83 "2021-12-03T19:16:05Z")
> [@silenus](#): > > Especially by the owners. Expanded playoffs is a rather obvious money-grab by a small bunch of billionaires. Fuck 'em! At least it’s honest. I doubt the players will mind anyway. The thing is, a “lockout” in December doesn’t really mean anything. If they get a deal in time for spring training no one will remember this happened. If they don’t, well, attendance is already flat; this isn’t a sport that needs another kick in the nuts. ---
**Author:** ![Southern\_Yankee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/southern_yankee/32/2800_2.png) [@Southern\_Yankee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Southern_Yankee)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2021, 1:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mlb-hot-stove-offseason-lockout-2021-2022/952531/84 "2021-12-06T01:21:13Z")
As a baseball card collecting kid in the 1970s, I am thrilled to see Minnie Minoso in the hall. Legendary. [Buck O’Neil joins Gil Hodges, Minnie Minoso, others in being elected to Baseball Hall of Fame (espn.com)](https://www.espn.com/mlb/story/_/id/32799358/buck-oneil-joins-gil-hodges-minnie-minoso-others-being-elected-baseball-hall-fame) ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2021, 1:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mlb-hot-stove-offseason-lockout-2021-2022/952531/85 "2021-12-06T01:27:32Z")
Minoso was an oiverdue choice, as was O’Neil. I don’t think Gil Hodges, as a player, is anywhere near HOF level. There are many, many players with careers that look a lot like his. He’s sort of like Tino Martinez. ---
**Author:** ![Zakalwe](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zakalwe/32/270_2.png) [@Zakalwe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zakalwe)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2021, 2:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mlb-hot-stove-offseason-lockout-2021-2022/952531/86 "2021-12-06T02:05:46Z")
I would assume the Miracle Mets weighed in his (Hodges) favor - deserved or not. ---
**Author:** ![Munch](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/munch/32/5281_2.png) [@Munch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Munch)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2021, 2:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mlb-hot-stove-offseason-lockout-2021-2022/952531/87 "2021-12-06T02:05:50Z")
I am so very happy for Buck O’Neil’s family and friends. Growing up in Kansas City he was an absolute fixture, and so crucial to building awareness of the importance of the Negro Leagues. He and Minoso have been waiting for far too long. ---
**Author:** ![Mike\_Mabes](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mike_mabes/32/1782_2.png) [@Mike\_Mabes](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mike_Mabes)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2021, 4:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mlb-hot-stove-offseason-lockout-2021-2022/952531/88 "2021-12-06T04:17:57Z")
When are they going to weigh in on Keith Hernandez? He only made the Cardinal’s Hall last year. Another victim of the War on Drugs. He admitted his mistake, talked elequently about cocaine - “It’s the devil on this earth” - and never did it again. ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2021, 4:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mlb-hot-stove-offseason-lockout-2021-2022/952531/89 "2021-12-06T04:21:24Z")
I see they also elected Jim Kaat and Tony Oliva. Really good players but it’s becoming increasingly weird to induct guys like that and leave Barry Bonds and Roger Clemens out. ---
**Author:** ![BlankSlate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/blankslate/32/80_2.png) [@BlankSlate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BlankSlate)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2021, 4:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mlb-hot-stove-offseason-lockout-2021-2022/952531/90 "2021-12-06T04:31:53Z")
Dick Allen (career OPS+156) was an even better ballplayer than any of these inductees, and somehow he misses out. These committees are the worst. ---
**Author:** ![kenobi\_65](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kenobi_65/32/13178_2.png) [@kenobi\_65](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kenobi_65)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2021, 4:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mlb-hot-stove-offseason-lockout-2021-2022/952531/91 "2021-12-06T04:35:10Z")
> [@BlankSlate](#): > > Dick Allen (career OPS+156) was an even better ballplayer than any of these inductees, and somehow he misses out. He missed by one vote, based on what I just heard on the news. ☹ ---
**Author:** ![Barkis\_is\_Willin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/a183cd/32.png) [@Barkis\_is\_Willin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Barkis_is_Willin)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2021, 2:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mlb-hot-stove-offseason-lockout-2021-2022/952531/92 "2021-12-06T14:34:12Z")
Yeah, recent veterans’ committee inductees are opening the door for a lot of slightly-better-than-average players. Jim Kaat pretty much just played forever. Who’s next? Jamie Moyer? And Gil Hodges, as a player, is a level below a guy like Fred McGriff. Hodges is pretty much exactly Dale Murphy, who never really got all that close in the writers’ votes. ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2021, 4:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mlb-hot-stove-offseason-lockout-2021-2022/952531/93 "2021-12-06T16:13:01Z")
For that matter McGriff was replaced at first in Toronto by John Olerud, who IMHO was also at least as good a player as Hodges. I like the Martinez, McGriff and Olerud comparisons because those players, like Hodges, were also key parts of elite championship teams, something that Dale Murphy (or say Carlos Delgado or Edwin Encarnacion) cannot say. ---
**Author:** ![Barkis\_is\_Willin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/a183cd/32.png) [@Barkis\_is\_Willin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Barkis_is_Willin)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2021, 5:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mlb-hot-stove-offseason-lockout-2021-2022/952531/94 "2021-12-06T17:12:37Z")
Olerud and Tino combined received less than 2% of writers’ votes. Who knows, 40 or 50 years from now maybe they’ll get another look. Not that I think either are deserving, by the way, but you can’t help but say, “well if _this_ guy’s in then you have to put _that_ guy in.” ---
**Author:** ![kenobi\_65](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kenobi_65/32/13178_2.png) [@kenobi\_65](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kenobi_65)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2021, 5:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mlb-hot-stove-offseason-lockout-2021-2022/952531/95 "2021-12-06T17:28:23Z")
> [@Barkis\_is\_Willin](#): > > Jim Kaat pretty much just played forever. Who’s next? Jamie Moyer? I saw an article on the MLB subreddit over the weekend which was exactly that: “Now that Jim Kaat is in the Hall, here’s the case for Jamie Moyer.” ---
**Author:** ![Barkis\_is\_Willin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/a183cd/32.png) [@Barkis\_is\_Willin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Barkis_is_Willin)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2021, 5:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mlb-hot-stove-offseason-lockout-2021-2022/952531/96 "2021-12-06T17:46:08Z")
Ha! I mean Kaat and Moyer are not wildly different. Neither was ever finished in the top 3 for the Cy Young award. Kaat does have a ton of gold gloves, so that’s worth something I guess. ---
**Author:** ![BlankSlate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/blankslate/32/80_2.png) [@BlankSlate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BlankSlate)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2021, 6:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mlb-hot-stove-offseason-lockout-2021-2022/952531/97 "2021-12-06T18:47:21Z")
I liked Kaat when he was broadcasting Yankee games, so I’m trying to ignore his 108 ERA+ and focus on the old school stuff. 283 wins! Won 20+ games three times! 16 gold gloves! Actually, that last one is pretty cool. Either he was an excellent fielder or he really fooled a lot of people. That bar does keep getting lowered, though. Seeing Kaat and Morris (105 ERA+) get in makes a guy like Pettitte (117 ERA+) look like a shoo-in.\* \*I know era+ is just another trivial stat. I just wanted to toss in one baseline metric. ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2021, 6:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mlb-hot-stove-offseason-lockout-2021-2022/952531/98 "2021-12-06T18:47:44Z")
The problem with these selections is, ya know, exactly that. If you don’t start your thought process with “is this guy really the best player of his era/position who’s not in? And if not, why am I voting for him?” then you end up here, having to explain why Jamie Moyer isn’t a Hall of Famer. Or what about Tommy John? He was just as good as Jim Kaat. Let’s put Bartolo Colon in the Hall! Tony Oliva is, at least, kind of a unique case. No one is really like him; Don Mattingly, kinda, but not the same position. ---
**Author:** ![BlankSlate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/blankslate/32/80_2.png) [@BlankSlate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BlankSlate)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2021, 10:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mlb-hot-stove-offseason-lockout-2021-2022/952531/99 "2021-12-06T22:07:16Z")
I don’t know the schedule of these committees, but guys like Dwight Evans and Lou Whitaker almost _have_ to make it in now. ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2021, 10:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mlb-hot-stove-offseason-lockout-2021-2022/952531/100 "2021-12-06T22:11:42Z")
The Modern Game Era committee meets again in 2024. Next year is Early Baseball, which should elect no one. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mlb-hot-stove-offseason-lockout-2021-2022/952531.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mlb-hot-stove-offseason-lockout-2021-2022/952531.md?page=6)