# MLB Hotstove, or the 2024 Ohtani sweepstakes **URL:** \ **Category:** The Game Room\ **Tags:** baseball-mlb\ **Created:** [November 2, 2023, 5:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mlb-hotstove-or-the-2024-ohtani-sweepstakes/992492 "2023-11-02T17:48:39Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Loach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/loach/32/350_2.png) [@Loach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loach)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2023, 12:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mlb-hotstove-or-the-2024-ohtani-sweepstakes/992492/21 "2023-11-08T00:11:20Z")
> [@Superdude](#): > > I’m sure it’s against MLB rules, but I’ve often wondered why a GM has never had a conversation with a player like this: > > > [@](#): > > > > GM: okay, here’s the deal…we’re not going anywhere this season, and we know that. The trade deadline is coming up, and you’re being asked about quite a bit. I know this is your walk year, and we love having you on this team. So this is going to sound crazy, but here’s what I propose: the Yankees are wanting to send us a package of X/Y/Z players, along with a decent prospect. I know you love being here. We want you to finish your career here. So what would you say to us trading you for these players as a rental, then resigning you in the offseason? We would be willing to pay a little over market value for the inconvenience. > > You know, just like a handshake agreement that upgrades the team, but allows the player to come back to a team that he enjoys playing for. No prior agreement needed if they just put in the highest bid. ---
**Author:** ![Superdude](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/superdude/32/13450_2.png) [@Superdude](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Superdude)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2023, 1:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mlb-hotstove-or-the-2024-ohtani-sweepstakes/992492/22 "2023-11-08T01:37:39Z")
True. But I was thinking the conversation would be to avoid any unpleasant negative feelings. Like when the Mets “traded” Wilmer Flores. ---
**Author:** ![Munch](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/munch/32/5281_2.png) [@Munch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Munch)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2023, 2:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mlb-hotstove-or-the-2024-ohtani-sweepstakes/992492/23 "2023-11-08T02:21:11Z")
> [@Loach](#): > > No prior agreement needed if they just put in the highest bid. The acquiring team gets exclusive access to negotiate with their players, so they could get them into a long term contract before any other team can so much as text them. So the under the table pre-trade discussion would make sense (if allowable). ---
**Author:** ![Loach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/loach/32/350_2.png) [@Loach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loach)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2023, 3:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mlb-hotstove-or-the-2024-ohtani-sweepstakes/992492/24 "2023-11-08T03:25:11Z")
And why would anyone do that without hearing what other teams are willing to pay? ---
**Author:** ![Munch](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/munch/32/5281_2.png) [@Munch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Munch)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2023, 1:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mlb-hotstove-or-the-2024-ohtani-sweepstakes/992492/25 "2023-11-08T13:05:22Z")
Guaranteed money. It happens all the time. ---
**Author:** ![Loach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/loach/32/350_2.png) [@Loach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loach)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2023, 12:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mlb-hotstove-or-the-2024-ohtani-sweepstakes/992492/26 "2023-11-09T00:32:22Z")
It’s all guaranteed money. In the scenerio given this is a player good enough for another team to give up genuine prospects just to rent him for a couple of months. A player like that won’t get less on the open market. ---
**Author:** ![Loach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/loach/32/350_2.png) [@Loach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loach)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2023, 12:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mlb-hotstove-or-the-2024-ohtani-sweepstakes/992492/27 "2023-11-09T00:34:24Z")
The Angels decide to go with 71 year old Ron Washington to manage. You know, someone who the young players can relate to. [https://www.si.com/mlb/2023/11/08/los-angeles-angels-hire-ron-washington-manager](https://www.si.com/mlb/2023/11/08/los-angeles-angels-hire-ron-washington-manager) ---
**Author:** ![Munch](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/munch/32/5281_2.png) [@Munch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Munch)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2023, 1:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mlb-hotstove-or-the-2024-ohtani-sweepstakes/992492/28 "2023-11-09T01:12:58Z")
> [@Loach](#): > > It’s all guaranteed money. Not if you get injured before the end of the season and become a free agent without any interested teams it’s not. Players sign contract extensions before turning into free agents all the time, even with teams they’ve just been traded to. Griffey Jr. signed the largest contract in MLB history (at the time) the day he was traded to the Reds in 2000 - the last year of his 4 year deal with the Mariners. ---
**Author:** ![Loach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/loach/32/350_2.png) [@Loach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loach)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2023, 2:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mlb-hotstove-or-the-2024-ohtani-sweepstakes/992492/29 "2023-11-09T02:15:08Z")
That’s not at all what was being discussed. The scenerio given was a player at the end of his contract gets traded to a contender for prospects. The team he is on tells him he is getting traded for prospects with a wink that at the end of the season his original team would sign him again. It’s not in the player’s best interest to sign with the original team without seeing what other teams are bidding. Signing an extension before the contract ends is not similar at all. ---
**Author:** ![Ulf\_the\_Unwashed](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/b4bc9f/32.png) [@Ulf\_the\_Unwashed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ulf_the_Unwashed)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2023, 2:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mlb-hotstove-or-the-2024-ohtani-sweepstakes/992492/30 "2023-11-09T02:32:12Z")
I am on several teams’ email lists, the result of buying tickets to their games. They tend to send me very similar emails telling me about the players who have been nominated for various awards. Today I got four of them: The Orioles wished me to vote for six of their players, who all have been selected candidates for the all-MLB team. The Phillies wanted me to be aware that I could vote for five of their players, each of whom had been selected a finalist for the all-MLB team. The Twins alerted me to the fact that four of their players are candidates for the all-MLB team and urged me to vote for all four. And the Pirates asked me to vote for the one Pirate who is a finalist for the All-MLB team. I guess some teams really are better than others. Wonder if the A’s had anybody on the list at all. ---
**Author:** ![Munch](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/munch/32/5281_2.png) [@Munch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Munch)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2023, 2:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mlb-hotstove-or-the-2024-ohtani-sweepstakes/992492/31 "2023-11-09T02:50:12Z")
> [@Loach](#): > > It’s not in the player’s best interest to sign with the original team without seeing what other teams are bidding. It is often very much in a player’s interest to sign without seeing what other teams are bidding. Because as I mentioned, _it’s guaranteed money_. Let’s use a hypothetical example. Consider a made-up player that we will call “Gen Kriffey”. Gen’s contract with the Pilots is up at the end of the year. Before the season ends, he gets traded to the Maroons for a handful of prospects. Before he gets on the airplane, the GM of the Pilots calls him into the office and says, “Gen, you’ve been a real asset to the team. These prospects are going to really set us up for next year. We’d love to have you back next year _wink wink_.” Gen arrives at Maroons Ballpark, walks into the GM‘s office and says “I could suffer a debilitating back injury next week, rendering my upcoming free agency completely worthless. My highly paid and incredibly knowledgeable agent knows what the market is for my talents within a few thousand dollars. Can we sign the largest deal in MLB history?” Absolutely none of that contradicts the scenario we have been discussing. Players sign extensions months before becoming free agents all the time - because it guarantees them a massive payday and mitigates any potential loss of income from injuries. [Here are 6 more examples of this playing out](https://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2011/03/players-that-signed-extensions-with-a-new-team.html#google_vignette). > [@Loach](#): > > Signing an extension before the contract ends is not similar at all. Nonsense. ---
**Author:** ![Loach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/loach/32/350_2.png) [@Loach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loach)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2023, 3:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mlb-hotstove-or-the-2024-ohtani-sweepstakes/992492/32 "2023-11-09T03:02:32Z")
You are still arguing a scenario that was not given. The scenerio that was: Griffey is on the Pilots. He gets traded to the Maroons for prospects at the end of his contract. GM of the Pilots says we want you back to finish your career so we will sign you as a free agent. Griffey says good idea. Griffey agrees to come back to the Pilots without negotiating with any other team. Your scenerio: Griffey is on the Pilots. He gets traded to the Maroons for prospects at the end of his contract. GM of the Pilots says we want you back to finish your career so we will sign you as a free agent. Griffey before the end of the season signs a contract extension with the Maroons. Do you really not see the big difference? ETA: sorry Kriffey. Wrong player ---
**Author:** ![Munch](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/munch/32/5281_2.png) [@Munch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Munch)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2023, 3:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mlb-hotstove-or-the-2024-ohtani-sweepstakes/992492/33 "2023-11-09T03:05:50Z")
> [@Loach](#): > > Do you really not see the big difference? Of course I do. Do you remember asking this: > [@Loach](#): > > And why would anyone do that without hearing what other teams are willing to pay? That was in response to me mentioning that the acquiring team (from the in-season trade) has exclusive rights to negotiate with that player. The answer to that question is “because the money is guaranteed, and his health is not guaranteed”. ---
**Author:** ![Superdude](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/superdude/32/13450_2.png) [@Superdude](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Superdude)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2023, 4:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mlb-hotstove-or-the-2024-ohtani-sweepstakes/992492/34 "2023-11-09T04:59:53Z")
Plus, while becoming rare, some players have been known to sign with a specific team for less money, simply because they like where they’re playing. If you have Kriffey, who plays for his hometown team and is approaching his last contract, and has said that he wants to retire as a Red, for example, but he’s generating a lot of trade interest. Trade him for the prospects and younger players, with his full knowledge that it’s only being done to set the team up for future success. Then sign him right back. I’m sure it’s collusion of some sort, but I’m not aware of it for sure, and I’ve never heard of it being done before. ---
**Author:** ![Loach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/loach/32/350_2.png) [@Loach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loach)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2023, 7:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mlb-hotstove-or-the-2024-ohtani-sweepstakes/992492/35 "2023-11-09T07:24:34Z")
> [@Munch](#): > > > [@Loach](#): > > > > Do you really not see the big difference? > > Of course I do. Do you remember asking this: > > > [@Loach](#): > > > > And why would anyone do that without hearing what other teams are willing to pay? > > That was in response to me mentioning that the acquiring team (from the in-season trade) has exclusive rights to negotiate with that player. The answer to that question is “because the money is guaranteed, and his health is not guaranteed”. The operative word in my sentence was “that.” “That” meaning that exact scenario not a completely different scenario which you came up with. Yes your scenario makes sense. It’s not the same as having a closed door handshake agreement to come back to the same team months after your guy would have signed. ---
**Author:** ![Loach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/loach/32/350_2.png) [@Loach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loach)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2023, 7:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mlb-hotstove-or-the-2024-ohtani-sweepstakes/992492/36 "2023-11-09T07:30:10Z")
> [@Superdude](#): > > Plus, while becoming rare, some players have been known to sign with a specific team for less money, simply because they like where they’re playing. > > If you have Kriffey, who plays for his hometown team and is approaching his last contract, and has said that he wants to retire as a Red, for example, but he’s generating a lot of trade interest. Trade him for the prospects and younger players, with his full knowledge that it’s only being done to set the team up for future success. Then sign him right back. > > I’m sure it’s collusion of some sort, but I’m not aware of it for sure, and I’ve never heard of it being done before. It was speculated that exact thing was going to happen with Anthony Rizzo. He was very popular with the Cubs. He won a World Series with them. He seemed to be genuinely unhappy to leave. I read many people say the Cubs were going to come back and get him as a free agent. Then the Yankees kept him and signed him to a contract. Now he’s Aaron judge’s best friend and they have matching dachshunds. ---
**Author:** ![Superdude](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/superdude/32/13450_2.png) [@Superdude](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Superdude)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2023, 8:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mlb-hotstove-or-the-2024-ohtani-sweepstakes/992492/37 "2023-11-09T08:17:53Z")
That doesn’t validate or invalidate the premise of my original statement. ---
**Author:** ![Munch](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/munch/32/5281_2.png) [@Munch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Munch)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2023, 7:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mlb-hotstove-or-the-2024-ohtani-sweepstakes/992492/38 "2023-11-09T19:21:27Z")
In hot Hotstove news, apparently the GM Winter Meetings are off and running (and running and running…). There’s a rampant norovirus that has struck 10% of all attendees with violent diarrhea, and so the remainder of the conference has been flushed. ---
**Author:** ![Loach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/loach/32/350_2.png) [@Loach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loach)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2023, 1:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mlb-hotstove-or-the-2024-ohtani-sweepstakes/992492/39 "2023-11-10T01:35:47Z")
> [@Superdude](#): > > That doesn’t validate or invalidate the premise of my original statement. Sure. Your statement is valid. It’s just a non sequitur that had nothing to do with what it seemed to be commenting on. But it’s valid. ---
**Author:** ![Loach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/loach/32/350_2.png) [@Loach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loach)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2023, 4:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mlb-hotstove-or-the-2024-ohtani-sweepstakes/992492/40 "2023-11-10T16:44:47Z")
> [@Munch](#): > > In hot Hotstove news, apparently the GM Winter Meetings are off and running (and running and running…). There’s a rampant norovirus that has struck 10% of all attendees with violent diarrhea, and so the remainder of the conference has been flushed. With modern technology the winter meetings don’t have the same importance. In the past that’s where a lot of the deals happened. I’m sure there is still some important elbow rubbing going on but it’s an excuse to get away from the wife and sit at the bar with your cronies. It can all happen on zoom now. Seems like lately all the big deals happen after the meetings are over. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mlb-hotstove-or-the-2024-ohtani-sweepstakes/992492.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mlb-hotstove-or-the-2024-ohtani-sweepstakes/992492.md?page=3)