# MLB: July 2011 **URL:** \ **Category:** The Game Room\ **Created:** [July 2, 2011, 9:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mlb-july-2011/587663 "2011-07-02T21:19:05Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![Tom\_Scud](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/f08c70/32.png) [@Tom\_Scud](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tom_Scud)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2011, 2:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mlb-july-2011/587663/101 "2011-07-13T14:24:34Z")
> [@RickJay](#): > > - Jeter of course has all his hits with the same team. The all time leader in that department is Stan Musial, who rolled up 3,630 hits never playing for anyone other than the Cardinals. The only players in the 3000 hit club who played for just one team are Musial, Yastrzemski, Cap Anson if you don’t count pre-1876 ball, Cal Ripken, George Brett, Robin Yount, Tony Gwynn, Craig Biggio, Al Kaline, and Roberto Clemente. It is interesting to note that thoguh you hear a lot about how players aren’t loyal anymore, a lot of those names are players of the free agency era. Not only that, but taking the guys who played their entire careers post-75, they played in Baltimore, Kansas City, Milwaukee, San Diego, Houston, and now New York; not exactly a collection of dominant big-market teams. (Throw Yaz in, since he probably could have gone free agent if he wanted, and you can add Boston to the list). ---
**Author:** ![Tom\_Scud](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/f08c70/32.png) [@Tom\_Scud](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tom_Scud)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2011, 3:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mlb-july-2011/587663/102 "2011-07-13T15:04:56Z")
> [@RickJay](#): > > - Jeter is a carer .312 hitter. Surprisingly to me, that’s actually ABOVE average in the 3000 hit club. Of the other 27 members of the club, 15 have averages lower than Jeter; **the lowest is Rickey, at .279**. Correction: Cal Ripken, .276 ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2011, 5:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mlb-july-2011/587663/103 "2011-07-13T17:04:47Z")
> [@RickJay](#): > > - Jeter got #3000 on a home run. The only other player to do that was Wade Boggs, who did it in the same ballpark. Boggs played his last two seasons for Tampa, and he got his 3,000th hit at Tropicana Field during a game against the Indians. ---
**Author:** ![jsc1953](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/5daacb/32.png) [@jsc1953](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jsc1953)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2011, 5:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mlb-july-2011/587663/104 "2011-07-13T17:17:35Z")
Getting back to Jeter for a second - I was so stunned to hear that no Yankee had ever achieved 3k hits that I looked up the list to confirm. I mean, how can Babe Ruth have a lifetime BA of around .330 and not get 3k? But it’s true. I would just have to guess that Ruth: lots of BB’s; Gehrig: career shortened by illness; DiMaggio: lost a few seasons to WWII. Every other Yankee is just incredibly over-rated. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![gonzomax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e8c25b/32.png) [@gonzomax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzomax)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2011, 6:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mlb-july-2011/587663/105 "2011-07-13T18:22:40Z")
What happened to the Latin boycott of the All Star Game? I have heard nothing. ---
**Author:** ![Jas09](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/d07c76/32.png) [@Jas09](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jas09)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2011, 6:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mlb-july-2011/587663/106 "2011-07-13T18:45:07Z")
> [@jsc1953](#): > > I would just have to guess that Ruth: lots of BB’s; Gehrig: career shortened by illness; DiMaggio: lost a few seasons to WWII. Every other Yankee is just incredibly over-rated. 😉 I think for Ruth it was really those pitching seasons. From 1915-1918 he only got ~50 hits a year (still batting over .300) but for the rest of his career he averaged over 160 hits a season. If he starts as an everyday player I think he pretty easily gets those other 127 hits. ---
**Author:** ![Hawkeyeop](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/958977/32.png) [@Hawkeyeop](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hawkeyeop)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2011, 10:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mlb-july-2011/587663/107 "2011-07-14T10:52:56Z")
> [@storyteller0910](#): > > This may be so. If the Mets get even a mid-level prospect back - even say somebody who projects as a middle-to-back of the rotation starter or strong fourth outfielder in the major leagues - I’ll retract my opposition to this deal. However, in the overwhelming majority of cases, PTBNLs _do_ amount to nothing. The Brewers have easily the worst farm system in baseball. I wouldn’t be too optimistic of the prospects being of any value. > [@](#): > > I think you may have Stockholm Syndrome. What has this franchise ever done to earn the benefit of the doubt you’re giving them here? They hired Sandy Alderson. More accurately I think Alderson deserves the benefit of the doubt. > [@](#): > > The Mets are not in this mess because they spend money on _good_ players. You can’t lump the K-Rod deal in with Luis Castillo and Oliver Perez (and Jason Bay!) and say they’re all of a piece. No, throwing money around at every mediocrity that comes along is not the way to succeed. But K-Rod has performed more or less as he was expected to when he was signed. He’s a player with actual value. It may not be value perfectly commensurate with his compensation, but to dismiss the value _entirely_ - to group him with the worthless Perezes and Castillos - makes no sense. According Rodriguez’s WAR’s as a Met according .3, 1.4, and currently .7. Castillo were .7, 1.8, .7, Bay has been 1.5 and .7. Perez was.. okay lets not go there. Otherwise I’m not seeing much of a difference. They were all minor assets that hamstrung the team by being vastly overpriced. > [@](#): > > I disagree. 7.5 games at the All-Star break isn’t quite nothing, but it’s hardly insurmountable and it most certainly wouldn’t require a “miracle,” particularly when you’ve gotten there without two of your five best hitters - including, don’t forget, probably your _best_ hitter. Though again, if the team were going to genuinely “regroup,” I wouldn’t necessarily quibble. Deal Reyes for a few serious prospects? I’m on board. Send Beltran to the Giants for Madison Bumgarner? OK. But this isn’t “regrouping;” it’s tanking. The BP odds have them at 1.9% chance of making playoffs. That sounds about right me. Getting Wright back will help, but I find it seriously unlikely that they get more value out of Reyes or Davis in the 2nd half than the first. > [@](#): > > By this standard, the Yankees could deal A-Rod for a PTBNL and you could call it a good deal. The point is, the Mets had a legitimate asset - with real-world value - and they swapped it for no asset. Their team is worse now, and there is no player or pick received in return that will make it better in the future. I _might_ feel differently if the Mets had any kind of good history with free agents, but let’s face it - the most successful free agent contract this franchise has managed in the last feels-like-twenty-but-probably-is-only-five years might be the guy they just traded away. Yeah, I would probably call that a good deal for the yankees since Arod contract is truly awful going forward. There is of course no team that would offer the yankees that offer though. The yankees have an excuse though as Arod could potentially win a WS for them. Krod might be the difference between 81 wins and 82 if he a particularly impactful 2nd half. And again it is a completely different management team, though I think Beltran worked out reasonably well. Plus there is always Dickey. > [@](#): > > I don’t buy this. First of all, the number of finishes K-Rod gets is _entirely_ under the control of the team. There is no “risk.” If he’s at 40 games finished at the end of July, he’s still going to become a _setup_ guy in Milwaukee - the odds of him finishing even ten more games the rest of the way are low. It is a risk, because the union can file a grievance. I suspect if Axford gets hurt, the Brewers would have difficulty justifying making anyone else their closer. > [@](#): > > And further, it’s not like the option is for $22M. If you honestly expect me to believe that no team will take a $3M risk to gain an actual asset that could help them win a World Series - or rather, that someone will take that risk now but not in two weeks - then you’re asking me to put more faith in this franchise then they have earned. $3 million? The option is for $17.5 million. $14 million if you minus the buyout. > [@](#): > > This was a salary dump. There is no upside. There is no positive. The prospects for the rest of the season just got dimmer, and there is nothing to suggest that next year or 2013 will be better in recompense. How much dimmer do you think they are exactly? Losing Krod means there playoffs odds go to what? 1.8%? 1.7%? The Mets are losing maybe half a win here. It is a not a large factor. They will have 15 million more to spend next year. I trust Alderson to turn it into more than the 1.0-1.5 WAR that Krod will provide. > [@](#): > > I flatly do not believe that there was not a better deal out there. I believe rather that the Mets took the first deal they could find, because their owner has placed himself in a massively untenable financial situation but will not sell the team, so he could not take even an infinitesmal risk that he wouldn’t find a buyer. I find that loathsome and obnoxious, and I struggle to justify supporting it by buying tickets. I don’t understand how this is the breaking point for you. Throwing out Perez every fifth day is fine, but trading away an overprices slightly above average is a deal breaker? If the mets were so desperate to dump salary why did they wait until July to trade anyone? Why are they still holding on to everyone else? I believe Alderson believed that this was the best deal that they could get (sounds likes Brewers were willing to take the least money) and felt waiting two weeks was pointless and potentially risky. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2011, 11:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mlb-july-2011/587663/108 "2011-07-14T11:56:29Z")
[Jon Heyman on the Rodriguez trade.](http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2011/writers/jon_heyman/07/13/mets.brewers.trade.francisco.rodriguez/index.html?sct=mlb_t2_a4) I think he raises a bunch of good points here in explaining why the Mets made the deal when they did. I would say the biggest point is that the more appearances Rodriguez has, the less valuable he became to any trade partner because absolutely no one wants to deal with that option year on his contract. Milwaukee does not intend to use Rodriguez as their closer, but if something happens, they can use him to finish 20 games before that option vests. The longer the Mets waited, the fewer appearances he could make as a closer and the less valuable he became. The Brewers also had an incentive to make a trade early because, as noted, their farm system sucks and at the deadline they’d be competing with teams who don’t have that problem and they would be at a disadvantage. Also of note is the fact that Rodriguez just hired Scott Boras as an agent, and went from saying he was OK with being the setup for a contender to saying he wants to stay a closer. That might’ve encouraged the Mets to dump him. ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2011, 2:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mlb-july-2011/587663/109 "2011-07-14T14:35:23Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > Boggs played his last two seasons for Tampa, and he got his 3,000th hit at Tropicana Field during a game against the Indians. I mistakenly thought Jeter’s 3000th had been in St. Petersburg. ---
**Author:** ![What\_Exit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/what_exit/32/10652_2.png) [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2011, 12:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mlb-july-2011/587663/110 "2011-07-15T00:54:06Z")
> [@jsc1953](#): > > Getting back to Jeter for a second - I was so stunned to hear that no Yankee had ever achieved 3k hits that I looked up the list to confirm. I mean, how can Babe Ruth have a lifetime BA of around .330 and not get 3k? But it’s true. > > I would just have to guess that Ruth: lots of BB’s; Gehrig: career shortened by illness; DiMaggio: lost a few seasons to WWII. Every other Yankee is just incredibly over-rated. 😉 Not only the seasons as a pitcher but also those terrible years in Boston Uniforms. Red Sox and Braves at the end. BTW: It is more amazing to me Yogi and Mickey did not make it, they had played the most games in the Yankee Uniform. Also, even jokingly dissing Yogi, Bill Dickey, Tony Lazzari and Whitey Ford is just plain wrong. ---
**Author:** ![Fred\_Garvin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/c67d28/32.png) [@Fred\_Garvin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fred_Garvin)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2011, 2:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mlb-july-2011/587663/111 "2011-07-15T02:39:01Z")
[Looks like Clemens could skate on perjury charges](http://espn.go.com/mlb/story/_/id/6768625/roger-clemens-trial-judge-declares-mistrial) ---
**Author:** ![mhendo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mhendo/32/3159_2.png) [@mhendo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mhendo)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2011, 4:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mlb-july-2011/587663/112 "2011-07-15T04:50:17Z")
Pretty amazing first inning in Toronto today. Colon allowed a hit and a walk but also got the first 2 outs, and was one strike away from getting out of the inning. Instead, Aaron Hill fought back to get a single and the Blue Jays went on to score 8 runs in the inning, all with 2 outs. If Colon got that third strike on Hill, the whole game could have been very different. Especially since the Blue Jays got all sorts of luck after that. The Yankees should have had the third out, but the Jays survived on an error by Nunez, and then the Jays got two swinging-bunt infield hits in a row. ---
**Author:** ![mhendo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mhendo/32/3159_2.png) [@mhendo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mhendo)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2011, 2:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mlb-july-2011/587663/113 "2011-07-18T02:23:49Z")
Jim Thome hit a 490-foot homer today. Delmon Young was on deck at the time, and i took a [screen grab](https://jshare.johnshopkins.edu/mhender4/public_html/gen_images/thome_hr.jpg) of his reaction. ---
**Author:** ![Munch](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/munch/32/5281_2.png) [@Munch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Munch)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2011, 3:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mlb-july-2011/587663/114 "2011-07-18T03:27:36Z")
Man, Josh Beckett and Jeff Niemann sure don’t know how to win, do they? ---
**Author:** ![Invisible\_Chimp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/f05b48/32.png) [@Invisible\_Chimp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Invisible_Chimp)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2011, 3:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mlb-july-2011/587663/115 "2011-07-18T03:59:56Z")
The M’s are not going to finish around .500 after all. Dropped 9 straight games. ---
**Author:** ![chizzuk](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e36b37/32.png) [@chizzuk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/chizzuk)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2011, 6:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mlb-july-2011/587663/116 "2011-07-18T06:33:08Z")
Tropicana Field is such a joke. Foul ball hit a light bulb on a catwalk and huge shards of broken glass rained on the ground next to third base. They had to halt play for several minutes to clean up. How do you not have some shield in place to keep that from happening? Someone could have been seriously injured, either from the falling pieces or from trying to pick them up barehanded. Baseball is not meant to be played indoors. ---
**Author:** ![Telemark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/telemark/32/372_2.png) [@Telemark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Telemark)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2011, 1:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mlb-july-2011/587663/117 "2011-07-18T13:38:07Z")
> [@chizzuk](#): > > Baseball is not meant to be played indoors. Well, certainly not in that stadium (I won’t call it a ballpark, because it isn’t one). ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2011, 2:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mlb-july-2011/587663/118 "2011-07-18T14:06:28Z")
> [@mhendo](#): > > Jim Thome hit a 490-foot homer today. > > Delmon Young was on deck at the time, and i took a [screen grab](https://jshare.johnshopkins.edu/mhender4/public_html/gen_images/thome_hr.jpg) of his reaction. [Crash Davis] anything travels that far oughta have a damn stewardess on it, don’t you think? [/Crash] ---
**Author:** ![Tanbarkie](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/a698b9/32.png) [@Tanbarkie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tanbarkie)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2011, 2:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mlb-july-2011/587663/119 "2011-07-18T14:54:15Z")
> [@mhendo](#): > > Jim Thome hit a 490-foot homer today. > > Delmon Young was on deck at the time, and i took a [screen grab](https://jshare.johnshopkins.edu/mhender4/public_html/gen_images/thome_hr.jpg) of his reaction. His expression is somewhere between exultation and horror (“OH GOD THAT POOR BALL”). ---
**Author:** ![Peremensoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ce7236/32.png) [@Peremensoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peremensoe)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2011, 5:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mlb-july-2011/587663/120 "2011-07-18T17:30:28Z")
> [@chizzuk](#): > > Tropicana Field is such a joke. Foul ball hit a light bulb on a catwalk and huge shards of broken glass rained on the ground next to third base. They had to halt play for several minutes to clean up. How do you not have some shield in place to keep that from happening? Someone could have been seriously injured, either from the falling pieces or from trying to pick them up barehanded. > > Baseball is not meant to be played indoors. Generally agree with the last, but I used to like the old Trop ground rules (catwalk ball is in play, etc.). Baseball fields are meant to be _different_ from one another. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mlb-july-2011/587663.md?page=5) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mlb-july-2011/587663.md?page=7)