# MLB: July 2012 **URL:** \ **Category:** The Game Room\ **Created:** [July 1, 2012, 4:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mlb-july-2012/626913 "2012-07-01T16:14:07Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 11
**Author:** ![FoieGrasIsEvil](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foiegrasisevil/32/16638_2.png) [@FoieGrasIsEvil](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FoieGrasIsEvil)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2012, 4:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mlb-july-2012/626913/201 "2012-07-26T16:16:15Z")
> [@Barkis\_is\_Willin](#): > > I think we could set a loftier goal for a team that’s 1/2 game off the best record in the league. The NL is not spectacular, this is a great window for the Reds to make some serious noise in the playoffs. I’m talking World Series. > > I’m interested to see if they make a move before the deadline. I read they’re one of the teams interested in Cody Ross from Boston. This is modern-era Cincinnati sports we’re talking here…baby steps! 😃 > [@Acsenray](#): > > Of course with so many rounds of playoffs, there’s always the chance of multiple flukes. Hey! :mad: 😉 ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2012, 4:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mlb-july-2012/626913/202 "2012-07-26T16:39:30Z")
After sweeping the Mets, the Nats are now 19 games over .500, tying their previous high since coming to DC. And the NL West race seems to have come down to just the Nats and Braves. ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2012, 5:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mlb-july-2012/626913/203 "2012-07-26T17:31:00Z")
Last night’s 16-0 defeat at the hands of the red hot A’s was the worst shutout loss in the 36-year history of the Blue Jays franchise. Oh, and the starting catcher broke his hand. Now they have nine pitchers on the DL, plus the team’s best position player, plus its catcher. Wheeeee. ---
**Author:** ![Barkis\_is\_Willin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/a183cd/32.png) [@Barkis\_is\_Willin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Barkis_is_Willin)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2012, 6:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mlb-july-2012/626913/204 "2012-07-26T18:14:38Z")
Well, the A’s are red hot right now. The Jays might have a favorable stretch coming up including a series with Detroit where they’ll miss Verlander and then a series in Seattle. The Red Sox, on the other hand, have a series with the Yankees on the horizon. ---
**Author:** ![Ike\_Witt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ike_witt/32/283_2.png) [@Ike\_Witt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ike_Witt)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2012, 8:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mlb-july-2012/626913/205 "2012-07-26T20:06:21Z")
> [@RickJay](#): > > Last night’s 16-0 defeat at the hands of the red hot A’s was the worst shutout loss in the 36-year history of the Blue Jays franchise. All the injured pitchers, and not one of them is Romero. ---
**Author:** ![etv78](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/d78d45/32.png) [@etv78](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/etv78)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2012, 8:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mlb-july-2012/626913/206 "2012-07-26T20:24:40Z")
> [@RTFirefly](#): > > After sweeping the Mets, the Nats are now 19 games over .500, tying their previous high since coming to DC. And the NL West race seems to have come down to just the Nats and Braves. I think you mean East. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2012, 8:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mlb-july-2012/626913/207 "2012-07-26T20:46:36Z")
It’s a forgivable error, since Atlanta and Cincinnati were in the _western_ throughout the two-division era. Crazy. ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2012, 10:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mlb-july-2012/626913/208 "2012-07-27T10:05:17Z")
> [@etv78](#): > > I think you mean East. 😉 D’oh! 🙂 I think because the Braves were in the NL West for so long, my fingers didn’t want to type ‘East’ in a sentence involving them. Anyway, the Nats beat up on the Brewers last night - 8 runs, Jackson pitched 7 shutout innings (he and Jordan Zimmerman are understandably overshadowed, but they’re about as good a pair of 3 and 4 starters as you’re likely to find), and are now 20 games over .500. You know when the last time was that a Washington, DC MLB team was 20 games over .500? 1945. ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2012, 5:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mlb-july-2012/626913/209 "2012-07-27T17:33:11Z")
Also, the Nats are currently tied with the Yankees for the best record in baseball, just ahead of the Rangers (19 games over .500) and Reds (18 games over). ---
**Author:** ![Invisible\_Chimp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/f05b48/32.png) [@Invisible\_Chimp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Invisible_Chimp)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2012, 12:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mlb-july-2012/626913/210 "2012-07-28T00:03:59Z")
It looks like the Angels have won the Greinke sweepstakes. ---
**Author:** ![FoieGrasIsEvil](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foiegrasisevil/32/16638_2.png) [@FoieGrasIsEvil](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FoieGrasIsEvil)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2012, 3:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mlb-july-2012/626913/211 "2012-07-28T03:02:11Z")
Reds 3-0 through 8 innings against the Rockies…even with Arroyo. C’mon Redleggers, win that 8th straight game! ---
**Author:** ![mhendo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mhendo/32/3159_2.png) [@mhendo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mhendo)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2012, 3:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mlb-july-2012/626913/212 "2012-07-28T03:13:25Z")
> [@FoieGrasIsEvil](#): > > The Reds keep chugging away. 14 games over .500 now…and this in spite of Bronson Arroyo being on the roster and Joey Votto rehabbing from a knee injury. > [@FoieGrasIsEvil](#): > > Reds 3-0 through 8 innings against the Rockies…even with Arroyo. C’mon Redleggers, win that 8th straight game! You seem to have a bit of a hard-on for Arroyo, but as far as i can tell, he’s doing perfectly decently this year. He’s having a year that is right about his career average (slightly better, actually), and he is, at worst, the third-best performer among Cincinnati’s starting pitchers. He’s third in ERA, second in WHIP, and third in WAR. Basically, the Reds starting pitchers consist of Johnny Cueto, then everyone else. I don’t see Arroyo as deserving of any special attention for dragging the team down. If he’s behind the other pitchers in W-L stats, it probably has more to do with run support than anything else. ---
**Author:** ![FoieGrasIsEvil](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foiegrasisevil/32/16638_2.png) [@FoieGrasIsEvil](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FoieGrasIsEvil)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2012, 3:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mlb-july-2012/626913/213 "2012-07-28T03:27:55Z")
> [@mhendo](#): > > You seem to have a bit of a hard-on for Arroyo, but as far as i can tell, he’s doing perfectly decently this year. He’s having a year that is right about his career average (slightly better, actually), and he is, at worst, the third-best performer among Cincinnati’s starting pitchers. > > He’s third in ERA, second in WHIP, and third in WAR. > > Basically, the Reds starting pitchers consist of Johnny Cueto, then everyone else. I don’t see Arroyo as deserving of any special attention for dragging the team down. If he’s behind the other pitchers in W-L stats, it probably has more to do with run support than anything else. Nah. Arroyo is what he is. A guy that can eat innings if he doesn’t get destroyed, but often gets destroyed. Usually around the fifth inning. His problem is that his stuff is junk. If he can’t get batters to chase after his sinking junkball, then he gets into trouble and gives up the meat. His fastball tops out at about 88mph right now and its straight and fools only those that are chasing his junkball stuff. He is what he is. Yes, he gets you about 13-15 wins a season, but loses the same amount and has an ERA of close to 5. He’s not great. By his own recent admission, he’s the weakest link in the rotation now. ---
**Author:** ![mhendo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mhendo/32/3159_2.png) [@mhendo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mhendo)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2012, 3:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mlb-july-2012/626913/214 "2012-07-28T03:35:05Z")
> [@FoieGrasIsEvil](#): > > He is what he is. Yes, he gets you about 13-15 wins a season, but loses the same amount and has an ERA of close to 5. If by “close to 5” you mean “less than 4”. ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2012, 3:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mlb-july-2012/626913/215 "2012-07-28T03:59:15Z")
Being the weakest link in the Reds rotation isn’t a real insult by any means. You can call them “Johnny Cueto and everyone else” but here is a full list of all Cincinnati starters, by starts made, in 2012: Johnny Cueto, 20 Homer Bailey, 20 Mat Latos, 20 Mike Leake, 19 Bronson Arroyo, 19 That’s it. Nobody else has started a single game. They have run the same 5-man rotation since Opening Day with not a burp, not an injury, not so much as a single missed start. The four guys after Cueto haven’t been spectacular but they have been consistent, dependable starters who give the Reds a chance to win. How many other teams have had just five men start games for them this season? If your answer is “none,” you are of course correct. It’s actually kind of amazing to have your rotation get a hundred games into the season without anyone missing a start. The Giants are the only team close, having had to use just Eric Hacker for a start. By way of comparison, the Padres have used 13 starting pitchers this year. The Blue Jays have used 10, the Rangers 10, the Nationals 7, the Pirates 7, the Yankees 8. There is a lot to be said for being able to send guys out there you know will pitch decently day in and day out. ---
**Author:** ![mhendo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mhendo/32/3159_2.png) [@mhendo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mhendo)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2012, 4:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mlb-july-2012/626913/216 "2012-07-28T04:21:43Z")
> [@RickJay](#): > > You can call them “Johnny Cueto and everyone else” but here is a full list of all Cincinnati starters, by starts made, in 2012 I’m well aware of that. As should have been clear from my post, what i meant by “Johnny Cueto, then everyone else” is that, in terms of performance, Cueto is the clear standout starting pitcher in the organization, while all the others have quite similar stats. Cueto’s ERA is 2.23; the other four are all over 3.50. Cueto’s WHIP is 1.17; the other four are all over 1.24. Cueto’s WAR is 4.5; all the others are 1.5 or less. Cueto has 12 wins despite having the second-worst run support among starting pitchers in the whole National League. My point was simply to note that Arroyo has not been bad this year, and (despite **FoieGrasIsEvil** ’s insistence that he’s the dud of the bunch) has really been about as good as the other starters, with the exception of Cueto. The only reason that Arroyo’s W-L record is so poor is that he’s had run support almost as bad as Cueto’s, but he’s not the stud pitcher Cueto is. Here’s the Reds’ starting pitchers’ run support for the year (Run support per 9 innings): Cueto: 4.73 Arroyo: 5.14 Leake: 6.41 Bailey: 6.64 Latos: 7.09 ---
**Author:** ![mhendo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mhendo/32/3159_2.png) [@mhendo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mhendo)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2012, 5:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mlb-july-2012/626913/217 "2012-07-28T05:11:23Z")
> [@RickJay](#): > > How many other teams have had just five men start games for them this season? If your answer is “none,” you are of course correct. Actually, Miami has also used just 5 starters for its 98 games. ---
**Author:** ![FoieGrasIsEvil](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foiegrasisevil/32/16638_2.png) [@FoieGrasIsEvil](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FoieGrasIsEvil)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2012, 10:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mlb-july-2012/626913/218 "2012-07-28T10:20:29Z")
Yeah, the five man thing for the entire season is pretty remarkable. And the Reds own the longest win streak in MLB right now with 8. They aren’t playing a tough schedule right now by any stretch, but its still pretty cool to rattle off 8 in a row. **Mhendo** , you’re right…I thought Arroyo’s ERA was a full point higher than it actually is. I’m kinda extrapolating his stats this season into every other year he’s pitched here, and he’s just always been decidedly average. I suppose what I am forgetting is that so is every other MLB teams 4th and 5th pitchers! 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Mister\_Rik](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mister_rik/32/491_2.png) [@Mister\_Rik](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mister_Rik)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2012, 3:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mlb-july-2012/626913/219 "2012-07-28T15:12:04Z")
> [@mhendo](#): > > Here’s the Reds’ starting pitchers’ run support for the year (Run support per 9 innings): > > Cueto: 4.73 > Arroyo: 5.14 > Leake: 6.41 > Bailey: 6.64 > Latos: 7.09 What my Mariners’ pitchers could do with that kind of run support… ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2012, 6:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mlb-july-2012/626913/220 "2012-07-28T18:08:53Z")
> [@mhendo](#): > > Actually, Miami has also used just 5 starters for its 98 games. My mistake; after Anibal Sanchez was traded I assumed they’d used someone else, but it was more recently than I’d thought and his turn doesn’t come up until today. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mlb-july-2012/626913.md?page=10) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mlb-july-2012/626913.md?page=12)