# MLB: July 2015 **URL:** \ **Category:** The Game Room\ **Created:** [July 1, 2015, 6:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mlb-july-2015/723972 "2015-07-01T18:07:21Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![Rick\_Kitchen](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rick_kitchen/32/522_2.png) [@Rick\_Kitchen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rick_Kitchen)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2015, 9:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mlb-july-2015/723972/101 "2015-07-26T21:28:19Z")
> [@](#): > > if the Royals want to pursue Ben Zobrist Apparently the man being sought after is Josh Reddick, by Yankees, Mets and Royals. Why not? Billy Beane is getting rid of everybody else. Why bother fielding a team that you know, can actually _ **win** _? ---
**Author:** ![Southern\_Yankee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/southern_yankee/32/2800_2.png) [@Southern\_Yankee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Southern_Yankee)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2015, 10:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mlb-july-2015/723972/102 "2015-07-26T22:01:50Z")
I didn’t see a HOF induction thread, but I was just reading an article that said that Pedro Martinez is the first Red Sox pitcher ever elected to the HOF. Can that be accurate? ESPN [link](http://espn.go.com/mlb/story/_/id/13322292/pedro-martinez-craig-biggio-randy-johnson-john-smoltz-enshrined-baseball-hall-fame) > [@](#): > > Martinez, 219-100 for his career, was the first Red Sox pitcher inducted. ---
**Author:** ![Ulf\_the\_Unwashed](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/b4bc9f/32.png) [@Ulf\_the\_Unwashed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ulf_the_Unwashed)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2015, 10:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mlb-july-2015/723972/103 "2015-07-26T22:20:33Z")
> [@Southern\_Yankee](#): > > I didn’t see a HOF induction thread, but I was just reading an article that said that Pedro Martinez is the first Red Sox pitcher ever elected to the HOF. Can that be accurate? > > ESPN [link](http://espn.go.com/mlb/story/_/id/13322292/pedro-martinez-craig-biggio-randy-johnson-john-smoltz-enshrined-baseball-hall-fame) Well, there was this fella named Babe Ruth… Also, Lefty Grove played for a number of years with the Red Sox after the A’s couldn’t afford him. For that matter, John Smoltz pitched briefly for Boston. So did Red Ruffing. And Tom Seaver. Probably what was meant was “the first HOF pitcher to spend his most productive years with the Red Sox.” ---
**Author:** ![Superdude](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/superdude/32/13450_2.png) [@Superdude](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Superdude)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2015, 10:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mlb-july-2015/723972/104 "2015-07-26T22:26:09Z")
Maybe the first pitcher to go into the HoF in a Red Sox hat? ---
**Author:** ![Southern\_Yankee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/southern_yankee/32/2800_2.png) [@Southern\_Yankee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Southern_Yankee)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2015, 10:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mlb-july-2015/723972/105 "2015-07-26T22:27:14Z")
Yes, they (and I) obviously meant “inducted as a member of the Red Sox,” not just “had ever pitched for them.” Still, it’s surprising to me. ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2015, 10:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mlb-july-2015/723972/106 "2015-07-26T22:28:32Z")
> [@Southern\_Yankee](#): > > I didn’t see a HOF induction thread, but I was just reading an article that said that Pedro Martinez is the first Red Sox pitcher ever elected to the HOF. Can that be accurate? Babe Ruth comes to mind. He spent 6 years as a Red Sox pitcher, and Pedro spent 7. ---
**Author:** ![Munch](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/munch/32/5281_2.png) [@Munch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Munch)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2015, 10:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mlb-july-2015/723972/107 "2015-07-26T22:34:55Z")
The Hall lists players with a “primary team”, which these days makes less sense than it likely did back in the days before free agency when the Hall was erected. Here’s [the Red Sox](http://baseballhall.org/explorer?name=&team=93&induction=All&pos=All&state=All&born%5Bvalue%5D%5Bdate%5D=&bats=All&throws=All). IMO, there’s no reason to not cross-reference this - no reason to make Mets and Expos fans fight over Gary Carter, or Red/White Sox fans over Pudge. (But I can see a reason to maybe limit it - not a lot of Phillies fans out there cheering Pedro on today…) ---
**Author:** ![Superdude](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/superdude/32/13450_2.png) [@Superdude](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Superdude)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2015, 10:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mlb-july-2015/723972/108 "2015-07-26T22:47:06Z")
> [@Colibri](#): > > Babe Ruth comes to mind. He spent 6 years as a Red Sox pitcher, and Pedro spent 7. I’m not sure if Ruth had a logo on this cap when he was inducted, but if he did, it would have been a Yankee cap. ---
**Author:** ![Ulf\_the\_Unwashed](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/b4bc9f/32.png) [@Ulf\_the\_Unwashed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ulf_the_Unwashed)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2015, 11:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mlb-july-2015/723972/109 "2015-07-26T23:03:09Z")
> [@Southern\_Yankee](#): > > Yes, they (and I) obviously meant “inducted as a member of the Red Sox,” not just “had ever pitched for them.” Still, it’s surprising to me. Ah. Wasn’t obvious to me; “first Red Sox pitcher” sounds like, well, first Red Sox pitcher. Since it isn’t–given that the Red Sox have been more noted for their hitters than for their pitchers over the years, and given the refusal of the voters to elect Roger Clemens, I wouldn’t think of it as so surprising; obviously, your mileage varies. Worth emphasizing, though, is that as **Munch** points out the whole thing is kind of arbitrary. \*Martinez actually spent more time in the majors (seasons, games, and IP) in uniforms other than Boston’s, though of course he had a plurality as a Red Sock. \*Cy Young played a long time with the Red Sox. \*Grove, as mentioned, was very successful for them as well. \*Dennis Eckersley pitched more seasons with Oakland but had a plurality of his innings with Boston. Any of them, it could be argued, were “Red Sox pitchers” already in the Hall. (Just to note that even before free agency it wasn’t always easy to decide who went in from which team: Grove, Jimmie Foxx, Pete Alexander, Eddie Collins–there were a bunch for whom you could justify two or sometimes even more teams.) ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2015, 2:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mlb-july-2015/723972/110 "2015-07-27T02:40:29Z")
> [@Superdude](#): > > I’m not sure if Ruth had a logo on this cap when he was inducted, but if he did, it would have been a Yankee cap. “First Red Sox pitcher ever elected” (which is what **Southern Yankee** posted) is different from “First pitcher ever inducted as a Red Sox.” However, if the latter is the sense, it’s wrong, since Lefty Grove wears a Red Sox cap on his [HOF plaque.](http://waswatching.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/10/Left-Grove-Plaque.jpg) Ruth does wear a Yankee cap on [his HOF plaque.](http://baseballhall.org/sites/default/files/Ruth%20Babe%20Plaque_NBL.png) According to Wiki, this is the [list of HOF players who played for the Red Sox.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Boston_Red_Sox_Hall_of_Famers) > [@](#): > > Players listed in bold are depicted on their Hall of Fame plaques wearing a Red Sox cap insignia. > > - Wears Red Sox cap on Hall Of Fame plaque, but spent more time on other teams Luis Aparicio **Wade Boggs** Lou Boudreau Jesse Burkett Orlando Cepeda Jack Chesbro **Jimmy Collins Joe Cronin Bobby Doerr** Dennis Eckersley **Rick Ferrell \* Carlton Fisk \* Jimmie Foxx \* Lefty Grove \* Harry Hooper** Waite Hoyt Ferguson Jenkins George Kell Heinie Manush Juan Marichal Herb Pennock Tony Pérez **Jim Rice** Red Ruffing Babe Ruth Tom Seaver Al Simmons Tris Speaker Dick Williams **Ted Williams Carl Yastrzemski** Cy Young ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2015, 2:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mlb-july-2015/723972/111 "2015-07-27T02:48:33Z")
Incidentally, [Cy Young wears a cap with a “C” on it for Cleveland](http://historysstory.blogspot.com/2014/03/march-27-baseball-great-cy-young-is-born.html), although it’s not clear if this is for the NL Cleveland Spiders or the later AL Cleveland Naps (Indians). He played more years for the former, and won almost half his games with them. ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2015, 3:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mlb-july-2015/723972/112 "2015-07-27T03:03:56Z")
5 days left for Toronto to get a pitcher. Loup blew another one. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2015, 12:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mlb-july-2015/723972/113 "2015-07-27T12:36:36Z")
> [@Southern\_Yankee](#): > > I didn’t see a HOF induction thread, but I was just reading an article that said that Pedro Martinez is the first Red Sox pitcher ever elected to the HOF. Can that be accurate? If it means “first pitcher to perform for the Red Sox for more seasons than any other team”. ---
**Author:** ![Barkis\_is\_Willin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/a183cd/32.png) [@Barkis\_is\_Willin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Barkis_is_Willin)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2015, 4:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mlb-july-2015/723972/114 "2015-07-27T16:25:21Z")
> [@Colibri](#): > > Incidentally, [Cy Young wears a cap with a “C” on it for Cleveland](http://historysstory.blogspot.com/2014/03/march-27-baseball-great-cy-young-is-born.html), although it’s not clear if this is for the NL Cleveland Spiders or the later AL Cleveland Naps (Indians). He played more years for the former, and won almost half his games with them. It’s for the Spiders, according to the HOF website. I was surprised Cy didn’t have a Boston hat. > **[Young, Cy | Baseball Hall of Fame](https://baseballhall.org/hall-of-famers/young-cy)** > > Cy Young left a legacy as a pitcher that is unlikely to ever be matched. The right-hander won 511 games during his tenure in baseball, almost 100 more than any other pitcher in history. He recorded 30 victories on five occasions and won 20-or-more... ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2015, 4:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mlb-july-2015/723972/115 "2015-07-27T16:53:47Z")
> [@Munch](#): > > The Hall lists players with a “primary team”, which these days makes less sense than it likely did back in the days before free agency when the Hall was erected. Here’s [the Red Sox](http://baseballhall.org/explorer?name=&team=93&induction=All&pos=All&state=All&born%5Bvalue%5D%5Bdate%5D=&bats=All&throws=All). I didn’t check this before posting. Interestingly, Carlton Fisk, Jimmy Foxx, and Lefty Grove all wear Red Sox caps on their HOF plaques even though the HOF doesn’t officially consider it their primary team. ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2015, 5:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mlb-july-2015/723972/116 "2015-07-27T17:39:15Z")
> [@Barkis\_is\_Willin](#): > > It’s for the Spiders, according to the HOF website. I was surprised Cy didn’t have a Boston hat. > [http://baseballhall.org/hof/young-cy](http://baseballhall.org/hof/young-cy) That would be a great trivia question. I wonder how many people would answer “Cleveland Spiders” when asked what team Cy Young represents in the Hall. Most people would probably guess Red Sox, with a few for the Indians. ---
**Author:** ![Barkis\_is\_Willin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/a183cd/32.png) [@Barkis\_is\_Willin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Barkis_is_Willin)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2015, 7:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mlb-july-2015/723972/117 "2015-07-27T19:52:46Z")
Technically, Cy Young never even played for the Indians. They were the Cleveland Naps until 1915. Young’s last year was 1911. And he was only with the Naps for 2.5 seasons. The Spiders seem to have been contracted and completely separate from the Naps/Indians franchise. Of course, by similar technicality, Young only played one year with the Red Sox as they were previously called the Americans, but at least it was the same franchise. ---
**Author:** ![Ulf\_the\_Unwashed](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/b4bc9f/32.png) [@Ulf\_the\_Unwashed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ulf_the_Unwashed)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2015, 9:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mlb-july-2015/723972/118 "2015-07-27T21:22:39Z")
> [@Colibri](#): > > I didn’t check this before posting. Interestingly, Carlton Fisk, Jimmy Foxx, and Lefty Grove all wear Red Sox caps on their HOF plaques even though the HOF doesn’t officially consider it their primary team. Fisk I get; he played better for the Red Sox and was certainly more famous for what he did with Boston (hi, 1975 World Series). But Grove and Foxx don’t make a lot of sense. I had been following baseball for many years before I knew that they had played for Boston at all–all the stories about them I’d heard were as part of those great Philadelphia teams of the late twenties and early thirties. Also, they were better for the Athletics. As on example: Grove, among other stats, won 20+ games eight times: seven times for the A’s and once (exactly 20) for Boston. So why were they inducted “as Red Sox”? Anyone know? ---
**Author:** ![Tom\_Scud](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/f08c70/32.png) [@Tom\_Scud](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tom_Scud)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2015, 12:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mlb-july-2015/723972/119 "2015-07-28T00:21:45Z")
Maybe they were both pissed at the way Connie Mack got rid of them? Players used to have the final say as to what cap they wore into the Hall (the HOF declared that it had final say after it was rumored that Wade Boggs had signed up for a bonus with the Rays based on wearing a Rays hat into the Hall.) ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2015, 1:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mlb-july-2015/723972/120 "2015-07-28T01:58:00Z")
> [@Barkis\_is\_Willin](#): > > Technically, Cy Young never even played for the Indians. They were the Cleveland Naps until 1915. Young’s last year was 1911. And he was only with the Naps for 2.5 seasons. The Spiders seem to have been contracted and completely separate from the Naps/Indians franchise. That’s why I put Indians in parentheses. (The Naps were at least the same franchise.) And yes, the Spiders were a NL team that had no direct connection to the Indians. The Indians do, however, honor Cy Young with a [plaque](http://image2.stadiumjourney.com/images/stadiums/8_Cy_Young_Plaque_in_Heritage_Park.jpg) in their Heritage Park. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mlb-july-2015/723972.md?page=5) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mlb-july-2015/723972.md?page=7)