# MLB: July **URL:** \ **Category:** The Game Room\ **Created:** [July 1, 2014, 2:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mlb-july/692097 "2014-07-01T14:40:28Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 11
**Author:** ![Suburban\_Plankton](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/suburban_plankton/32/219_2.png) [@Suburban\_Plankton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Suburban_Plankton)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2014, 5:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mlb-july/692097/201 "2014-07-23T05:04:25Z")
> [@Ulf\_the\_Unwashed](#): > > No, it is. He entered with the tying run in the on-deck circle, right? so if he gets them out he gets the save. Yep, you’re right. I even pulled up the rulebook before I posted :smack: …it just shows how tough those 14 inning games can be, doesn’t it? ---
**Author:** ![FoieGrasIsEvil](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foiegrasisevil/32/16638_2.png) [@FoieGrasIsEvil](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FoieGrasIsEvil)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2014, 5:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mlb-july/692097/202 "2014-07-23T05:06:02Z")
Arguing for outlawing the shift is as stupid as bitching about batters that bunt to avoid it. ---
**Author:** ![Jeff\_Lichtman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jeff_lichtman/32/1531_2.png) [@Jeff\_Lichtman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jeff_Lichtman)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2014, 5:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mlb-july/692097/203 "2014-07-23T05:37:42Z")
New strategies come into sports all the time, and they usually aren’t outlawed unless they go against the spirit of the game somehow. I don’t think defensive shifts are like that. It’s still baseball. Does anyone look at a shift and think, “I wish they’d stop screwing around and play ball the way it was meant to be played”? Defensive shifts make left-handed pull hitters less valuable. As a result, other types of hitters become relatively more valuable. Right-handed hitters, spray hitters and left-handed opposite field hitters should create a higher proportion of their teams’ runs. Is there something wrong with that? BTW, I assume someone has measured the effect of all this shifting. What do the numbers show? ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2014, 8:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mlb-july/692097/204 "2014-07-23T08:37:44Z")
> [@mhendo](#): > > Verducci says that “it is time to at least think about” such a rule. > > What do you folks think? Sure, why not think about it? Okay, I’m thinking about it… it’s ludicrous. ---
**Author:** ![madmonk28](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/madmonk28/32/20811_2.png) [@madmonk28](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/madmonk28)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2014, 1:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mlb-july/692097/205 "2014-07-23T13:28:25Z")
The shift isn’t even a new strategy. > [@](#): > > But as much as the shift is blossoming this year, it is hardly a new phenomenon. There is evidence of the shift going back more than 130 years. Artwork suggests that before the 1880s, basemen would stand on top of the bases. According to Tom Shieber, a historian at the Baseball Hall of Fame, that was because of different foul-ball rules that made first and third basemen responsible for greater swaths of foul territory. > Once those rules changed in the mid-1880s, players took up the now familiar positions. But even back then, there were innovators. Shieber said that one of his colleagues at the Hall of Fame, Bill Francis, recently discovered evidence of an infield shift in a June 25, 1870, account in The New York Clipper of a game between the Atlantics of Brooklyn and the Cincinnati Red Stockings. > > “The Cincinnati fielders moved about in the field, according as the different batsmen came to bat,” the Clipper story said, noting that it was innovative. > **[Who’s on Third? In Baseball’s Shifting Defenses, Maybe Nobody (Published 2014)](https://www.nytimes.com/2014/05/13/sports/baseball/whos-on-third-in-baseballs-shifting-defenses-maybe-nobody.html?_r=0)** > > Major league teams are embracing the shift on defense as never before, and it is radically reshaping how the infield looks and plays. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2014, 3:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mlb-july/692097/206 "2014-07-23T15:39:05Z")
> [@Jackmannii](#): > > I have a hard time figuring out “baseball etiquette” sometimes. > [@mhendo](#): > > Colby Lewis is a fucking moron, and most of the “etiquette” disputes in baseball are the result of idiotic man-children engaged in stupid pissing contests. > [@RickJay](#): > > What I’ve noticed about these “unwritten rules” is that the definitions keep expanding. I’ve noticed that, too. And that makes it more and more obvious that the unwritten rules don’t really mean anything. Usually it’s just a pitcher trying to get an advantage. ---
**Author:** ![wonky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wonky/32/393_2.png) [@wonky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wonky)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2014, 6:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mlb-july/692097/207 "2014-07-23T18:08:17Z")
> [@running\_coach](#): > > Imagine a pitcher who throws overhand and his manager suddenly demands he throw submarine style. I agree that this is quite difficult and, especially for a pitcher, would likely lead to injury. But in keeping with the idea of outlawing the shift, imagine that baseball decided to protect over the top pitchers by requiring that teams not do any scouting on them and not adjust their lineup or pitch selection for fear that those pitchers will be at a disadvantage. ---
**Author:** ![Ulf\_the\_Unwashed](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/b4bc9f/32.png) [@Ulf\_the\_Unwashed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ulf_the_Unwashed)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2014, 7:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mlb-july/692097/208 "2014-07-24T19:12:38Z")
The Yankees just hit a sacrifice fly off Colby Lewis. Now I ask you, is that FAIR?? ---
**Author:** ![wonky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wonky/32/393_2.png) [@wonky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wonky)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2014, 7:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mlb-july/692097/209 "2014-07-24T19:14:26Z")
> [@Ulf\_the\_Unwashed](#): > > The Yankees just hit a sacrifice fly off Colby Lewis. > > Now I ask you, is that FAIR?? The Yankees have always been a passel of right BASTARDS. ---
**Author:** ![Asimovian](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asimovian/32/172_2.png) [@Asimovian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Asimovian)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2014, 2:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mlb-july/692097/210 "2014-07-25T02:36:40Z")
So that was one of the weirdest plays of the year (Indians v. KC). Corey Kluber was pitching a masterful game, having only given up one hit through 7. Mike Moustakas loops one into left field with a shifted outfield. Ryan Raburn hauls ass all the way over to the left field foul line, so much so that he just slightly overruns the ball, having it bounce off his wrist instead of into his glove, and is then a little surprised the ball was called fair (which was the right call). He hustles over to pick up the missed ball, and then somehow spikes the ball during his attempt to throw into second, instead losing it into center field. Moustakas comes around to score the only run of the game. It looked weirder than it sounds. ---
**Author:** ![Asimovian](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asimovian/32/172_2.png) [@Asimovian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Asimovian)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2014, 3:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mlb-july/692097/211 "2014-07-25T03:28:08Z")
> [@Asimovian](#): > > It looked weirder than it sounds. [Video evidence](http://m.mlb.com/video/v34780729/clekc-moustakas-rounds-bases-on-double-and-error/?query=mike%2Bmoustakas), though it fails to show the throw itself. ---
**Author:** ![Ulf\_the\_Unwashed](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/b4bc9f/32.png) [@Ulf\_the\_Unwashed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ulf_the_Unwashed)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2014, 3:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mlb-july/692097/212 "2014-07-25T03:30:01Z")
Sounds pretty weird to me! And it just proves what people have been saying, that there’s no way for a lefty pull hitter like Moustakas to beat any kind of shift as learning to hit to left is clearly impossible! ---
**Author:** ![Asimovian](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asimovian/32/172_2.png) [@Asimovian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Asimovian)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2014, 4:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mlb-july/692097/213 "2014-07-26T04:21:15Z")
Weird tidbits from from tonight’s Dodgers-Giants game: [ul] [li]Zack Grienke has a four-strikeout inning[/li][li]The Dodgers have had a three-triple inning[/li][li]Yasiel Puig has hit three triples through six innings[/li][/ul] Apparently, Puig’s 11 total bases without a home run is a Dodger record. ---
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2014, 4:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mlb-july/692097/214 "2014-07-26T04:54:40Z")
And that’s just through 7. Maybe we can get some more, just to rub it in. ---
**Author:** ![Jeff\_Lichtman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jeff_lichtman/32/1531_2.png) [@Jeff\_Lichtman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jeff_Lichtman)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2014, 5:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mlb-july/692097/215 "2014-07-26T05:20:45Z")
> [@Asimovian](#): > > [ul] > [li]The Dodgers have had a three-triple inning[/li][li]Yasiel Puig has hit three triples through six innings[/li][/ul] AT&T Park has the second-highest triples factor in MLB, next to Comerica Park. You can see the rankings [here](http://espn.go.com/mlb/stats/parkfactor/_/sort/triplesFactor). AT&T is very deep to right center, and the right field wall has some weird angles and a scoreboard that can cause the ball to bounce in odd directions. ---
**Author:** ![Truman\_Burbank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ecc23a/32.png) [@Truman\_Burbank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Truman_Burbank)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2014, 8:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mlb-july/692097/216 "2014-07-27T08:18:41Z")
Dodgers nose back into First Place with a nifty complete-game (2-hits allowed, I think I saw) shutout from the Kershaw guy. Tomorrow’s Ryu vs the recently-acquired Peavy ought to be interesting. ---
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2014, 4:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mlb-july/692097/217 "2014-07-28T04:48:27Z")
The Dodgers sweep the Giants to cement themselves atop the NLWest. Peavy looked mighty shaky in his Giant’s debut tonight. ---
**Author:** ![mhendo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mhendo/32/3159_2.png) [@mhendo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mhendo)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2014, 5:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mlb-july/692097/218 "2014-07-28T05:28:39Z")
> [@silenus](#): > > Peavy looked mighty shaky in his Giant’s debut tonight. It’s nothing really new. He’s looked pretty shaky all year. His ERA is about 4.72 and, perhaps even more telling, his WHIP is about 1.42, which is his worst WHIP numbers since his rookie season. The Orioles came out of the All-star Break with a tough west coast road trip against the three top teams in the strong AL West. They took one of three against Oakland, two of three against the Angels, and three of four against the Mariners, giving them a 6-4 record for the trip. I think most O’s fans would be happy with that, especially away from home against those teams. Baltimore’s still on top of the AL East, three games ahead of the Blue Jays, who just took two of three from the Yankees to move back into second place. Tampa has won nine of their last ten, and must now be considered back in contention. A while back **RickJay** picked the Red Sox to win the division. I don’t think i’d count them out yet, but they’re 10.5 back now, and haven’t (yet) been able to put together the sort of run that would make them a threat. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2014, 2:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mlb-july/692097/219 "2014-07-28T14:11:27Z")
Peavy has lost something off his fastball, sure, but I suspect his poor record in Boston this year was mostly due to getting no run support whatever, causing him to press and get too fine. He’ll always be remembered kindly here for \*buying \*the Duck Boat he rode in the parade. Boston should have been the best bet to take the East, due to having the deepest pitching, but it hasn’t worked that way. They do have a big enough stockpile of prospects to get a difference-maker, especially after getting \*two \*good prospects for Peavy, but who’s available now, really? Realistically, they’re done. Gotta pick the O’s now, and in hindsight the Nelson Cruz signing was fucking genius. ---
**Author:** ![Truman\_Burbank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ecc23a/32.png) [@Truman\_Burbank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Truman_Burbank)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2014, 3:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mlb-july/692097/220 "2014-07-28T15:32:07Z")
I have to say that but for a couple of passed balls/wild pitches, and Uggla letting a routine grounder go through his wickets unmolested, Peavy would have had a much better outcome. I know Posey is a good offensive player, but how is he rated as a defensive catcher? He seemed to have trouble with plays AJ seems to make routinely. I’m hoping this sweep crushed the Giants’s spirits a bit. 😃 [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mlb-july/692097.md?page=10) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mlb-july/692097.md?page=12)