Plus, Gary dropped the ball during that play at the plate!
What’s your take on the aural experience at the Stadium? Just watching on TV, I’m annoyed at the constant burps of music and other sound effects. I’ve heard it’s obnoxiously loud in person.
I am only a casual baseball fan but was surprices at what an overwhelming favorite Judge is for MVP when compared to what Cal Rayleigh has done.
Yes Judge does have the highest batting average in the lead and also leads in OBP, slugs and OPS, though all thoses are strongly correlated, but the stats are not unpresidated Bonds managed to get full season stats above Judge’s current figures in all of these in 2002.
On the other hand Cal Rayleigh leads the league in HR and is very likely to have the most HR ever before the all star game. To have a catcher hold such a record seems unbelievable, he broke the record for home runs before the all star game in 14 games fewer than Bench and his home ground isn’t particularly HR friendly. Defensively he is one of the better Catchers standing 6th in fielding percentage.
I realise HRs is only part of what what matters for batting and someing like OPS might be the best measure of overall batting performance (where Judge leads and Rayleigh is second) but shouldn’ t the fact that Cal Rayleigh is a catcher and a decent one at that make him at least a coin flip for MVP?
Is it down to Judge being a Yankee meaning he is more likely to get votes?
While it helps to be a Yankee, no, in this case, Judge is pretty clearly both the best offensive player in the AL and someone that really carries his team.
Here are the leader boards. Judge is 1st or 2nd in far too many too ignore.
So little or no consideration is given to defensive ability in MVP votes.
Judge leads 23 categories which is a lot(though a lot of strongly correlated), in 16 of those Rayleigh is second. Rayleigh leads in 5 categories (which judge is secnd in all of them).
If is is a given that Judge is the best batter in the AL I think it is also a geven that Rayleigh is the 2nd best batter which I find remarkable for a catcher, has any other catcher come close to Rayleigh in defensive ability. Judge isn’t bad at RF but it is hard to be anything significantly above replacement level at fielding their while Rayleigh make a significant contributuion to his team defensively. I would have thought if MVP was for the best player overall it would be at least equal odds for who would be MVP but yeah, if it is a best batter award it should go to Judge.
I was in a suite so the noise isn’t a factor. When I’m in a regular seat it doesn’t bother me. A common complaint about the new stadium is the design means it’s considerably quieter than the old stadium.
Judge has had a significant downturn in performance lately. It’s nowhere near a sure thing at this point.
Saying Judge isn’t bad at RF is really selling him short. Teams have to change how they run based because of him. Seeing his arm in person is very impressive. No spectacular plays yesterday when I was there but a couple that were way closer than they should have been. He also covers a hell of a lot of ground in the outfield. Not surprising since this is a guy who has no problem playing center.
Cal Raleigh
While a lot of hitting metrics are correlated, two measures that aren’t are batting average and home runs, which makes sense because if a player is trying to hit a home run, they are going to strikeout or fly out often. And indeed the list of top ten AL players by batting average and home runs has no overlap. Except Aaron Judge, who is first in average and second in home runs.
Sad but true.
It might make a difference if the top vote-getters played the same position, but otherwise it’s primarily the offensive numbers that earn votes.
Now, there are obviously MVPs who also excelled at their defensive position–Mike Schmidt, Johnny Bench, and Willie Mays come to mind. And there are certainly others as well.
Generally, no. And Raleigh isn’t all that much better than average at catcher. He’s 20th in strike rate, 7th in framing, and is replacement level in blocking. He’s extremely slow getting rid of the ball (45th), and has only caught 7 steal attempts on 38 tries.
Also, those odds include how much people expect Judge and Raleigh to continue their performances. I expect regression from both, but regression for Judge still looks like a 55 HR season slashing .325/.450/.725. Big Dumper could optimistically be relied for 45 HR, and a .260/.370/.650 line. Judge is simply in another tier.
Many, many MVPs have clearly had defensive prowess be a big part of why they won the Award. If anything, the days of “just give it to the RBI leader” that gave us some really bad choices like Hank Sauer or George Bell are over.
Yeah, I’m a little puzzled nobody is mentioning WAR, which includes defense. The accuracy of WAR is a different discussion, but it’s definitely a factor in MVP voting these days.
If the season ended today, Judge would most likely win the MVP, but there’s plenty of season left. If Raleigh has a better second half than Judge, he could take the award.
Here’s an update on All Star balloting. Looks like we will see a lot of Dodgers
Raleigh is also pretty much carrying the Mariners this year. I wish that wasn’t the case but the team lives or dies by him right now.
I also see nobody mentioning that not only is Cal (so far) the best slugging catcher in MLB, but he’s also a switch-hitter and doing it from both sides of the plate, which is also a record.
He’s a legitimate MVP candidate if he can keep it up.
I mean, I can see the argument for Raleigh now if you think WAR doesn’t sufficiently account for positional value.
It’d help his case if the Mariners made the playoffs. They are currently tied for the last wild card.
Man, reading this thread, you’d think the only teams worth anything this year are the Yankees and Dodgers. Tigers have been the top team in baseball for going on a month (and top five for longer than that), and will likely have just as many starters in the all-star game as the Dodgers and four times as many as the Yankees, yet nary a peep here.
The Tigers are absolutely dominating this season (this past weekend notwithstanding), and Skubal is looking great as he moves toward his second Cy Young in as many years. Javy Baez? Holy shit, what a season, might be the comeback of the decade. Torkelson too, a year ago he was moved down to Toledo and I wondered if he was done, but he’s having a solid year. Dillon Dingler has done some incredible stuff behind the plate, just a laser for an arm.
Tigers do need some help with pitching, especially out of the bullpen, and Jack Flaherty has been looking like hot garbage recently too, but hopefully they’ll get Reese Olsen and Alex Lange back soon and maybe pick up some pitching before the trade deadline.
nice … once he gets started up …
So get some Detroit fans in here.
BTW Judge just hit number 28.
Indeed so.
Ozzie Smith is widely considered to have been the best defensive shortstop of his generation, and on the short list of the best of all time. Smith once finished in the top 10 in MVP voting: in 1987, he was in second place for the NL MVP, behind the Cubs’ Andre Dawson, who hit 49 home runs and batted in 137, for a last-place Cubs team; in that season, Ozzie hit .303 (the only time in his career he hit .300+), with 182 hits, for a Cardinals team that won the NL pennant, and on which Smith was likely the best player.
I don’t disagree with this statement, but I stand behind what I said, which was that offensive numbers trump defensive abilities when the MVP votes are counted. If the offensive numbers are close, then, sure, the defense is a major factor, but the best offensive player will almost always finish ahead of the best defensive player.
@kenobi_65 just gave probably the best example of this.