# MLB: Legal to Slide in First? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [July 23, 2005, 11:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mlb-legal-to-slide-in-first/313865 "2005-07-23T23:55:28Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![BobT](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/8e8cbc/32.png) [@BobT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobT)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2005, 8:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mlb-legal-to-slide-in-first/313865/21 "2005-07-24T08:54:18Z")
Kenny Lofton of Cleveland was a player who injured his shoulder sliding into first base. He did it in Game 5 of an ALDS against the Red Sox. He hurt himself in the fourth inning of an 8-8 game that Boston would go on to win 12-8. The only players you see sliding head first into second or third (or perhaps the most common ones) are guys stealing a base. Rickey Henderson always slid into second headfirst when stealing because he thought it was the fastest way to get there. However, I don’t think I ever recalled seeing Henderson slide headfirst into second to break a double play. You just can’t do that well. And you are more likely to have the second baseman/shortstop step on your hand also. On a stolen base attempt, the fielder catching the ball is much more likely to be stationary. Sports medicine people disagree on which method is safer. Head first diving has a potential, albeit remote, to lead to a spinal cord or head injury. However, the more common injury is going to be to a hand or shoulder. Feet first sliding would take the spinal cord injury out of the mix, but those players are also more likely to suffer traumatic knee and ankle injuries. I’ve seen tape of both Pedro Guerrero and Robin Ventura really messing up their legs on bad slides. Derek Jeter is another prominent player to suffer a shoulder injury because of a head-first slide, but it was on a bit of a freak play because Jeter was sliding into third base and the catcher was running up the line to cover the base. The catcher caught the ball and then blocked the base with his shinguard, which Jeter’s shoulder hit and he suffered a dislocation. And the Yankees were PO’d for a long time at the Blue Jays catcher. ---
**Author:** ![cstamets](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/958977/32.png) [@cstamets](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cstamets)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2005, 1:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mlb-legal-to-slide-in-first/313865/22 "2005-07-24T13:42:50Z")
Lofton was the guy I couldn’t remember. Thanks, **BobT**. One other possible reason for the “sliding into first to mess up a throw” scenario is a runner on third, hit and run situation. Say it’s a bunt or weak grounder and it pulls the first baseman up from the bag. Runner on third is already on his way home. First baseman may decide to throw home to save the run instead of getting the easy out at first. I can see a batter trying to throw himself at the first baseman one way or another to try to prevent the out at the plate. Of course, the first baseman would have to be in the basepath for the batter to try this legally. ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2005, 2:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mlb-legal-to-slide-in-first/313865/23 "2005-07-24T14:10:03Z")
Normally the first baseman plays with his body off the baseline to avoid getting run over by the batter-runner. If, perhaps due to a bad throw to first, the baseman is going to end up on top of the bag, I can see the runner deciding to slide in as a way of avoiding the collision without having to leave the base path & forfeit any chance to beat the throw. Maybe he’ll beat the ball and maybe he won’t, but at least the two of them aren’t going to collide torso to torso. ---
**Author:** ![Cardinal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cardinal/32/4000_2.png) [@Cardinal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cardinal)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2005, 3:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mlb-legal-to-slide-in-first/313865/24 "2005-07-24T15:08:27Z")
> [@Jonathan Chance](#): > > No, there is NEVER a tag play at first. By definition there can’t be. You haven’t seen replays of when Chan Ho Park kicked Tim Belcher when he didn’t like the way he was tagged on the way to first after bunting. Number six on ESPN’s top ten baseball fights. ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2005, 10:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mlb-legal-to-slide-in-first/313865/25 "2005-07-24T22:31:12Z")
> [@BobT](#): > > Derek Jeter is another prominent player to suffer a shoulder injury because of a head-first slide, but it was on a bit of a freak play because Jeter was sliding into third base and the catcher was running up the line to cover the base. The catcher caught the ball and then blocked the base with his shinguard, which Jeter’s shoulder hit and he suffered a dislocation. And the Yankees were PO’d for a long time at the Blue Jays catcher. The catcher’s name was Ken Huckaby, a longtime minor league scrub. The play was quite clean, just an accident, and Huckaby’s treatment by the Yankees was remarkably unsportsmanlike; a few weeks later he was demoted to the minor leagues, though in fairness that had more to do with his lack of batting skill than the Yankees’ snit. I’m not sure either method of sliding is safer than the other. ---
**Author:** ![nivlac](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/3bc359/32.png) [@nivlac](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nivlac)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2005, 3:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mlb-legal-to-slide-in-first/313865/26 "2005-07-25T03:28:54Z")
Sliding into first is perfectly legal and I’ve seen it at least four times this season – once by Jeff Kent (Dodgers), twice by Omar Vizquel (Giants), and just this last Friday by Paul Lo Duca (Marlins). Vizquel, a 16-year veteran, has been asked why he does it when the conventional wisdom is that it’s faster to just run across the first base bag. He said that it was mainly to confuse the first base umpire. Admittedly, it would be a tougher call for the umpire. ---
**Author:** ![Garfield226](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/9e8a1a/32.png) [@Garfield226](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Garfield226)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2005, 8:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mlb-legal-to-slide-in-first/313865/27 "2005-07-25T08:05:39Z")
> [@cstamets](#): > > Say it’s a bunt or weak grounder and it pulls the first baseman up from the bag. Runner on third is already on his way home. First baseman may decide to throw home to save the run instead of getting the easy out at first. > > I can see a batter trying to throw himself at the first baseman one way or another to try to prevent the out at the plate. Of course, the first baseman would have to be in the basepath for the batter to try this legally. I don’t even know that he would have to be IN the basepath. I’ve seen double plays where the guy forced out at second’s feet are two or three feet to the side of the bag, trying to take out a shortstop or second baseman. In that situation, he almost always touches the bag with his hand to prove to the umpire he wasn’t maliciously going after the fielder (which I think is illegal). ---
**Author:** ![ftg](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ftg/32/2801_2.png) [@ftg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ftg)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2005, 3:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mlb-legal-to-slide-in-first/313865/28 "2005-07-25T15:02:23Z")
There was a _successful_ head first slide into first in the first inning of Sunday’s Braves-D’backs game. The runner (Clark?) slid under the tag of pitcher Ortiz who was too slow getting over to firstbase to properly reach the bag. Announcer Don Sutton said it was one of the rare times he’s seen when a slide into first worked. ---
**Author:** ![bradministrator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/a698b9/32.png) [@bradministrator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bradministrator)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2005, 7:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mlb-legal-to-slide-in-first/313865/29 "2005-07-25T19:31:33Z")
It was legal on the elementary school playground: When you’re sliding into first and your pants are about to burst, diarrhea (pfft pfft), diarrhea (pfft pftt) ---
**Author:** ![jsc1953](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/5daacb/32.png) [@jsc1953](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jsc1953)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2005, 10:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mlb-legal-to-slide-in-first/313865/30 "2005-07-25T22:28:35Z")
> [@cstamets](#): > > Lofton was the guy I couldn’t remember. Thanks, **BobT**. > > One other possible reason for the “sliding into first to mess up a throw” scenario is a runner on third, hit and run situation. > > Say it’s a bunt or weak grounder and it pulls the first baseman up from the bag. Runner on third is already on his way home. First baseman may decide to throw home to save the run instead of getting the easy out at first. > > I can see a batter trying to throw himself at the first baseman one way or another to try to prevent the out at the plate. Of course, the first baseman would have to be in the basepath for the batter to try this legally. If the batter-runner does throw himself in the path of the ball intentionally, that’s interference, and the batter’s out (7.08(b)). If it was with the intent to break up a double play, they’re both out (7.09(h)). ---
**Author:** ![RaftPeople](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/6f9a4e/32.png) [@RaftPeople](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RaftPeople)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2005, 11:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mlb-legal-to-slide-in-first/313865/31 "2005-07-25T23:09:17Z")
Does anyone have stats indicating that a head first “slide” (jump might be a better term) is slower than just running? I personally have used it many times in my life and if timed properly you touch the bag with outstretched hands at the moment of impact so there is no slow down due to the “slide” itself. Some might argue that you just lost 2 steps of continued forward motion, but when I’ve done it, it “felt” like I got there faster. Any data? ---
**Author:** ![Xema](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/x/9de053/32.png) [@Xema](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Xema)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2005, 11:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mlb-legal-to-slide-in-first/313865/32 "2005-07-25T23:16:18Z")
> [@cstamets](#): > > One other possible reason for the “sliding into first to mess up a throw” scenario is a runner on third, hit and run situation… > I can see a batter trying to throw himself at the first baseman one way or another to try to prevent the out at the plate. In this situation the guy on third is essentially always going to be much farther along toward home than the batter is toward first. So it isn’t likely that a slide into first will do much - the play at the plate will have long since been decided. ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2005, 11:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mlb-legal-to-slide-in-first/313865/33 "2005-07-25T23:28:45Z")
> [@bradministrator](#): > > It was legal on the elementary school playground: > > When you’re sliding into first and your pants are about to burst, diarrhea (pfft pfft), diarrhea (pfft pftt) That would be Rule 2.22 (b). ---
**Author:** ![jsc1953](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/5daacb/32.png) [@jsc1953](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jsc1953)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2005, 11:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mlb-legal-to-slide-in-first/313865/34 "2005-07-25T23:47:35Z")
> [@freakstasy](#): > > IANAU, but umpires, **particularly on force-out plays** , rely on the sound of the ball hitting the glove in reference to the sound of the player’s foot hitting the base. (bolding mine) Your statement is 100% true on force plays. On tag plays, however…not so much. Given the nature of the play, sound of foot and ball and glove is not so relevant. Just giving you a hard time… 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![CC](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f1d935/32.png) [@CC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CC)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2005, 11:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mlb-legal-to-slide-in-first/313865/35 "2005-07-25T23:53:49Z")
a) Rayman - was going to cite that instance myself. And the only thing that makes Stoney’s absence tolerable is the charm and knowledge of Brenley. b) as to the question of speed to the bag, the instant you stop running - i.e. begin to dive for the bag - you begin to slow down. Diving for the bag gives you one last bit of force, and then you’re gliding and slowing down for the rest of the trip. Running for the bag allows you to continue to add force to your forward motion with each step, up to the last couple of feet, if necessary. Gotta be faster to keep running. ---
**Author:** ![Gangster\_Octopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a8b319/32.png) [@Gangster\_Octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gangster_Octopus)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2005, 12:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mlb-legal-to-slide-in-first/313865/36 "2005-07-26T00:31:34Z")
Players slide/dive into first base all the time, it happens many times a game, sometimes, many times with the same baserunner. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![tracer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tracer/32/20578_2.png) [@tracer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tracer)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2005, 2:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mlb-legal-to-slide-in-first/313865/37 "2005-07-26T02:01:00Z")
> [@cstamets](#): > > there’s never a tag to avoid (if you go past first and then have to scramble back, that a different story). You misspelled “if you go past first **and make a move toward second** and then have to scramble back”. Hope this helps. ---
**Author:** ![freakstasy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/c57346/32.png) [@freakstasy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/freakstasy)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2005, 3:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mlb-legal-to-slide-in-first/313865/38 "2005-07-26T03:26:21Z")
> [@RaftPeople](#): > > Does anyone have stats indicating that a head first “slide” (jump might be a better term) is slower than just running? Some might argue that you just lost 2 steps of continued forward motion, but when I’ve done it, it “felt” like I got there faster. Batters often must adjust their last couple of strides in order to hit a base exactly. I see this all the time during homerun trots since it’s more noticeable when the player isn’t running hard. Sliding headfirst is a way to avoid this “tap-stepping,” and if you feel that you are able to slide in a such a way that your speed is not inhibited by your body dragging on the ground, that’s enough reason to question the untested wisdom that the best way to reach first base is to run through it. ---
**Author:** ![Jeff\_Lichtman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jeff_lichtman/32/1531_2.png) [@Jeff\_Lichtman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jeff_Lichtman)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2005, 3:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mlb-legal-to-slide-in-first/313865/39 "2005-07-26T03:29:32Z")
> [@BobT](#): > > The only players you see sliding head first into second or third (or perhaps the most common ones) are guys stealing a base. Pete Rose used to slide head first all the time, even when he wasn’t stealing. Actually, in his case it was more of a dive than a slide - he looked like he was trying to tackle the base. ---
**Author:** ![freakstasy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/c57346/32.png) [@freakstasy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/freakstasy)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2005, 4:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mlb-legal-to-slide-in-first/313865/40 "2005-07-26T04:07:13Z")
> [@Jeff Lichtman](#): > > Pete Rose used to slide head first all the time, even when he wasn’t stealing. Actually, in his case it was more of a dive than a slide - he looked like he was trying to tackle the base. Since Pete Rose was the worst baserunner of all-time in terms of caught stealing (198-for-347), maybe that’s not an argument in favor of sliding head first, whether stealing or running to first, as it certainly didn’t help him. He was slow, but not exactly in Edgar Martinez territory. I mean, that’s a 43% failure rate. To put that in comparison, only two catchers from Rose’s era (Clay Dalrymple and Joe Azcue) managed to throw out over 45% of baserunners for their careers ([source](http://members.tripod.com/bb_catchers/catchers/thieves_smith.htm)) In fairness to Charlie Hustle, his career coincided nearly exactly with the most prolific stolen base years on record. Everyone else was doing it, but most of them actually had speed to do it. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mlb-legal-to-slide-in-first/313865.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mlb-legal-to-slide-in-first/313865.md?page=3)