# MLB: May 2011 **URL:** \ **Category:** The Game Room\ **Created:** [May 1, 2011, 1:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mlb-may-2011/580379 "2011-05-01T13:14:50Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 13
**Author:** ![jsc1953](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/5daacb/32.png) [@jsc1953](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jsc1953)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2011, 5:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mlb-may-2011/580379/241 "2011-05-26T17:25:11Z")
> [@spark240](#): > > Fans _like_ the drama of collisions and the idea that the catcher must physically defend the plate. Sure, until their best offensive player is out for the season. Little League (where I umpire) has the candy-assest rules of any baseball organization, and they prohibit collisions. The wording is: if the fielder is holding the ball and waiting to make the tag, the runner must attempt to avoid. However, Posey wasn’t holding the ball on this play, so this rule wouldn’t have helped. Another option is to enforce the Obstruction rule more tightly: a defensive player can’t block the baseline unless he’s fielding the ball, or taking the throw. But again, Posey was taking the throw, and he also left Cousins with some room to get to the plate. So there’s not really a rules-based solution, other than eject anybody who collides with undue force. A collision wasn’t necessary here – Cousins would’ve been just as safe if he’d slid. ---
**Author:** ![Jas09](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/d07c76/32.png) [@Jas09](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jas09)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2011, 5:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mlb-may-2011/580379/242 "2011-05-26T17:26:59Z")
OK, I found the video. Posey set up in front of the plate towards the first-base side. As the ball arrived he attempted to catch it and swing in front of the runner. He never actually caught the ball, as far as I can tell from a 2-inch video. The runner lowered his shoulder and plowed him over. I would issue a rules clarification that collisions with defenders are not allowed and that blocking the plate without the ball is also not allowed. Quite frankly, on that play, the runner was going to be safe on a normal slide so I would put a good deal of blame on the runner - there was no need for that level of contact. Once runners know that catcher’s aren’t going to physically block them from the plate they will have less incentive to attempt to dislodge the ball (which, really, why should that be allowed? This isn’t football…). ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2011, 5:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mlb-may-2011/580379/243 "2011-05-26T17:32:06Z")
> [@jsc1953](#): > > Little League (where I umpire) has the candy-assest rules of any baseball organization, and they prohibit collisions. The wording is: if the fielder is holding the ball and waiting to make the tag, the runner must attempt to avoid. And if the catcher is anywhere near the plate, you’re out if you don’t slide. Or that’s how it was in my Little League playing days. From what I saw, the only thing that would have helped is a rule against launching yourself into the catcher, and that may be what the agent has in mind. ---
**Author:** ![jsc1953](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/5daacb/32.png) [@jsc1953](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jsc1953)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2011, 5:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mlb-may-2011/580379/244 "2011-05-26T17:36:51Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > And if the catcher is anywhere near the plate, you’re out if you don’t slide. Or that’s how it was in my Little League playing days. That’s the kind of local-rule made-up-shit that drives umpires crazy. But I digress. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Peremensoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ce7236/32.png) [@Peremensoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peremensoe)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2011, 5:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mlb-may-2011/580379/245 "2011-05-26T17:49:50Z")
> [@Jas09](#): > > My position would be that if protecting the catcher is more important than the “fan interest” of watching people get injured… It’s not the fans’ interest in watching people get injured, it’s the interest in all the interrelated dynamics of plays at the plate, and the anticipation of all the possibilities. Very few baseball fans _want_ to see even opposing players actually get hurt. But occasional injuries are a byproduct of the rules and customs environment which enables all the fun outcomes. > [@jsc1953](#): > > A collision wasn’t necessary here – Cousins would’ve been just as safe if he’d slid. Maybe. But maybe he’s not so good at the hook slide behind the plate. Maybe Posey would have handled the ball more cleanly without Cousins bearing down on him. Or if these factors don’t apply here, they certainly apply to other plays at the plate. Changing the rules (or directives to umpires) doesn’t just change these few regrettable instances where somebody is seriously hurt; it changes _all_ those plays. It will be to the benefit of some players and the detriment of others, depending on their skill sets; and it will change fans’ perceptions of the _potential_ of all such plays. I’m not against considering it, just saying that there’s a lot more to it than looking at one bad outcome and saying “that was bad, we shouldn’t let them do _that_.” ---
**Author:** ![Jas09](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/d07c76/32.png) [@Jas09](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jas09)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2011, 6:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mlb-may-2011/580379/246 "2011-05-26T18:02:04Z")
> [@spark240](#): > > I’m not against considering it, just saying that there’s a lot more to it than looking at one bad outcome and saying “that was bad, we shouldn’t let them do _that_.” Agreed. To me the collisions at the plate always seemed extra-legal anyways. Contact between players doesn’t really fit in with my aesthetic of baseball. So I’d prefer a directive and enforcement of these types of encounters to encourage plays at the plate to look more like plays at the other bases. As to the excitement of a play at the plate, other than the potential of a run scoring I don’t see much difference between that and a close play at third on a potential triple. The ball and runner arrive at the same time and the fielder must catch it and apply a tag on a runner who is attempting to avoid him. Adding physical contact to me seems a perversion of a graceful play. YMMV, of course. ---
**Author:** ![Southern\_Yankee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/southern_yankee/32/2800_2.png) [@Southern\_Yankee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Southern_Yankee)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2011, 6:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mlb-may-2011/580379/247 "2011-05-26T18:21:14Z")
> [@gonzomax](#): > > Boston is beginning a 3 game series in Detroit. It is unlikely they will get any of it in. It has been raining over and over. Thunderstorms are expected for the next 3 days. Boston seems to getting in the first one OK… ---
**Author:** ![Telemark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/telemark/32/372_2.png) [@Telemark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Telemark)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2011, 8:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mlb-may-2011/580379/248 "2011-05-26T20:01:30Z")
> [@Southern\_Yankee](#): > > Boston seems to getting in the first one OK… 🙂 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Suburban\_Plankton](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/suburban_plankton/32/219_2.png) [@Suburban\_Plankton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Suburban_Plankton)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2011, 8:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mlb-may-2011/580379/249 "2011-05-26T20:09:29Z")
As a die hard Giants fan, I have to say that Posey getting hurt last night was bad luck, and nothing more. I don’t think there was anything wrong with the play from either side. the ball arrived before the runner so there was no problem with Posey blocking the plate (I think the fact that he didn’t handle the throw well is immaterial to this particular point of discussion). The runner came in hard but didn’t do anything out of the norm. This was nothing more than a ‘routine’ play at the plate, that happened to go very bad for the Giants because Posey got his foot caught underneath him. It sucks, but that’s baseball. I’m not sure exactly how the Giants plan to field a team over the next few weeks, though. Pablo Sandoval is out for probably 2 more weeks at 3rd. They’ve recalled Brandon Belt from AAA for his hitting, but if they put him in the lineup they either have to move Aubrey Huff (or sit him down, which is not likely to happen). I’m not sure where else he’s going to fit; they don’t want to put him back in the outfield, especially now that the starters there are all healthy, so that might mean moving him to 3rd, which frightens me. ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2011, 8:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mlb-may-2011/580379/250 "2011-05-26T20:21:29Z")
> [@jsc1953](#): > > Sure, until their best offensive player is out for the season. > > Little League (where I umpire) has the candy-assest rules of any baseball organization, and they prohibit collisions. The wording is: if the fielder is holding the ball and waiting to make the tag, the runner must attempt to avoid. I’m not sure if you oppose this or not, but it seems to me that it’s a pretty good rule for kids. Adding contact isn’t really necessary at the 11/12 year old level. ---
**Author:** ![jsc1953](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/5daacb/32.png) [@jsc1953](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jsc1953)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2011, 9:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mlb-may-2011/580379/251 "2011-05-26T21:35:16Z")
> [@RickJay](#): > > I’m not sure if you oppose this or not, but it seems to me that it’s a pretty good rule for kids. Adding contact isn’t really necessary at the 11/12 year old level. I agree. I just felt it ironic that applying this rule to MLB wouldn’t have prevented the injury. In other Giant news, Ryan Vogelsong just gave up his first earned run in like his last 3 starts – and the way the Giants are hitting, that will probably mean an L. Vogelsong is a great story. Barry Zito (0-1, 6.23) sprains his foot in April, and the Giants bring up Vogelsong to take his spot. He hadn’t pitched in the majors since 2006. He proceeds to go 3-0, 1.93. Zito will probably not get back into the rotation for a long time. ---
**Author:** ![Suburban\_Plankton](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/suburban_plankton/32/219_2.png) [@Suburban\_Plankton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Suburban_Plankton)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2011, 10:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mlb-may-2011/580379/252 "2011-05-26T22:35:37Z")
> [@jsc1953](#): > > I agree. I just felt it ironic that applying this rule to MLB wouldn’t have prevented the injury. > > In other Giant news, Ryan Vogelsong just gave up his first earned run in like his last 3 starts – and the way the Giants are hitting, that will probably mean an L. > > Vogelsong is a great story. Barry Zito (0-1, 6.23) sprains his foot in April, and the Giants bring up Vogelsong to take his spot. He hadn’t pitched in the majors since 2006. He proceeds to go 3-0, 1.93. Zito will probably not get back into the rotation for a long time. Zito could always replace Madison Bumgarner, who has angered the gods such that the Giants are incapable of scoring runs for him this year (something that Zito is more than familiar with)… …and the Giants go down 1-0 today. the June Swoon is starting a week early ☹ ---
**Author:** ![jsc1953](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/5daacb/32.png) [@jsc1953](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jsc1953)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2011, 10:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mlb-may-2011/580379/253 "2011-05-26T22:50:49Z")
Speaking of angering the baseball gods: since bragging (#184) about the Giants stellar home record and 1-run-game record, they’ve dropped 3 straight at home, including 2 straight 1-run losses. I’m sorry! ---
**Author:** ![Suburban\_Plankton](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/suburban_plankton/32/219_2.png) [@Suburban\_Plankton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Suburban_Plankton)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2011, 10:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mlb-may-2011/580379/254 "2011-05-26T22:52:51Z")
> [@jsc1953](#): > > Speaking of angering the baseball gods: since bragging (#184) about the Giants stellar home record and 1-run-game record, they’ve dropped 3 straight at home, including 2 straight 1-run losses. > > I’m sorry! I’d be willing to forgive you if you can play catcher… ---
**Author:** ![Peremensoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ce7236/32.png) [@Peremensoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peremensoe)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2011, 10:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mlb-may-2011/580379/255 "2011-05-26T22:54:15Z")
> [@Suburban\_Plankton](#): > > As a die hard Giants fan, I have to say that Posey getting hurt last night was bad luck, and nothing more. I don’t think there was anything wrong with the play from either side. the ball arrived before the runner so there was no problem with Posey blocking the plate (I think the fact that he didn’t handle the throw well is immaterial to this particular point of discussion). The runner came in hard but didn’t do anything out of the norm. This was nothing more than a ‘routine’ play at the plate, that happened to go very bad for the Giants because Posey got his foot caught underneath him. It sucks, but **that’s baseball**. Bolding mine. I agree, and it’s good of you to say so. And good luck to your Giants. ---
**Author:** ![gonzomax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e8c25b/32.png) [@gonzomax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzomax)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2011, 2:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mlb-may-2011/580379/256 "2011-05-27T02:10:18Z")
> [@Southern\_Yankee](#): > > Boston seems to getting in the first one OK… Not OK. ---
**Author:** ![gonzomax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e8c25b/32.png) [@gonzomax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzomax)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2011, 11:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mlb-may-2011/580379/257 "2011-05-28T23:23:42Z")
The Tigers gave up on Sizemore and traded him to Oakland for a reliever, Purcey. Sizemore was supposed to hit. he as over 400 in the minors are did not perform in the bigs. I suspect they pulled the trigger too early. But the middle relief has been horrible, the worst in the AL. ---
**Author:** ![Least\_Original\_User\_Name\_Ever](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e480ec/32.png) [@Least\_Original\_User\_Name\_Ever](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Least_Original_User_Name_Ever)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2011, 2:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mlb-may-2011/580379/258 "2011-05-29T02:28:53Z")
> [@gonzomax](#): > > The Tigers gave up on Sizemore and traded him to Oakland for a reliever, Purcey. Sizemore was supposed to hit. he as over 400 in the minors are did not perform in the bigs. I suspect they pulled the trigger too early. But the middle relief has been horrible, the worst in the AL. Here’s the problem: good lefties in the bullpen cost you an arm and a leg. Nobody’s giving up their non-closer lefties up. This guy was already traded from Toronto to Oakland this year. They gave up on Sizemore with pretty limited at-bats, yet still cling to Brandon Inge. The Tigers have nothing in the minors at all for second base, and this is Dave Dombrowski’s contract year, so he’s interested in winning now. So far, I don’t see how that works. ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2011, 3:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mlb-may-2011/580379/259 "2011-05-29T03:02:23Z")
> [@gonzomax](#): > > The Tigers gave up on Sizemore and traded him to Oakland for a reliever, Purcey. Sizemore was supposed to hit. he as over 400 in the minors are did not perform in the bigs. He got what, 240 at bats? In any case Sizemore is 26, so it’s not like he was a Grade A prospect anyway. Purcey’s 29. This is two quadruple-A players being traded for each other. ---
**Author:** ![gonzomax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e8c25b/32.png) [@gonzomax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzomax)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2011, 3:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mlb-may-2011/580379/260 "2011-05-29T03:37:08Z")
The Tigers are putting Raeburn at 2nd. His strikeouts and batting average is horrid. But Leyland likes him. His stats are much worse than Sizemores. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mlb-may-2011/580379.md?page=12) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mlb-may-2011/580379.md?page=14)