# MLB Offseason Thread 2024-2025 **URL:** \ **Category:** The Game Room\ **Tags:** baseball-mlb\ **Created:** [November 1, 2024, 1:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mlb-offseason-thread-2024-2025/1009526 "2024-11-01T01:39:22Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![dalej42](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/67e7ee/32.png) [@dalej42](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dalej42)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2024, 5:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mlb-offseason-thread-2024-2025/1009526/21 "2024-11-04T17:50:17Z")
> **[Hall unveils Classic Baseball Era Committee ballot](https://www.mlb.com/news/hall-of-fame-announces-2024-classic-baseball-era-ballot?partnerID=mlbapp-iOS_article-share)** > > The National Baseball Hall of Fame announced on Monday this year’s ballot for the Era Committee, which will focus on the Classic Baseball Era -- the period prior to 1980, including Negro Leagues and pre-Negro Leagues stars. > Dick Allen, Ken Boyer,... The Era committee announces their nominees for the Hall of Fame. I remain unconvinced that there’s anyone before 1980 that hasn’t been looked at many times and found not quite Hall worthy ---
**Author:** ![What\_Exit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/what_exit/32/10652_2.png) [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2024, 5:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mlb-offseason-thread-2024-2025/1009526/22 "2024-11-04T17:54:32Z")
Tommy John is the outside shot, but only for the fame part. His stats don’t measure up. But his surgery moves him into consideration. The rest fall short in all ways. I liked Luis Tiant a lot but I can’t justify the Hall for him. Tommy John had 288 wins at least. ---
**Author:** ![BlankSlate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/blankslate/32/80_2.png) [@BlankSlate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BlankSlate)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2024, 6:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mlb-offseason-thread-2024-2025/1009526/23 "2024-11-04T18:35:57Z")
First, I don’t know why Parker and Garvey are even being considered. Second, I don’t know to assess a guy like Donaldson. Sounds like he played in a lot of pick-up games? Third, the obvious problem with putting lesser talents in the Hall is the lowering of the bar: Boyer and Allen were better than Baines, and John and Tiant were better than Morris. Tiant is the only one I’d vote for…and where the hell is Lou Whitaker? ETA: I guess Whitaker’s career started too late for inclusion. I thought of Garvey and Whitaker as being contemporaries, but Garvey debuted in '69 and Whitaker '77. ---
**Author:** ![Munch](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/munch/32/5281_2.png) [@Munch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Munch)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2024, 6:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mlb-offseason-thread-2024-2025/1009526/24 "2024-11-04T18:41:01Z")
Dave Parker should be voted in, if only based on this photograph: > **[https://i.redd.it/npd4iiy64rw51.jpg](https://i.redd.it/npd4iiy64rw51.jpg)** ---
**Author:** ![kenobi\_65](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kenobi_65/32/13178_2.png) [@kenobi\_65](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kenobi_65)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2024, 9:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mlb-offseason-thread-2024-2025/1009526/25 "2024-11-04T21:33:12Z")
> [@BlankSlate](#): > > First, I don’t know why Parker and Garvey are even being considered. I can’t speak to Parker, but I suspect Garvey’s candidacy has resurfaced because he was (rightly or wrongly) considered a big star player in the '70s, for one of the best (and most popular) teams in baseball. - In an 8-season span (1973-1980), he hit .300 seven times; the one season that he didn’t (1977), he hit .297. - He won an MVP award, four Gold Gloves, and was an All-Star for eight consecutive seasons. - He was part of what was, at that time, often considered to be one of the best infields in baseball (along with Davey Lopes, Bill Russell, and Ron Cey). - The Dodgers were consistently one of the strongest teams in baseball when he was at his peak, winning the NL pennant four times, and winning one World Series – and their rivalry against the Yankees in that era was emblematic of baseball in the latter half of the 1970s. - He was MLB’s “iron man,” prior to Cal Ripken, and played in 1207 consecutive games. - Beyond his play, he was really well-liked by fans and the press at that time: he was seen as clean-cut, friendly, and nice, and he (along with his attractive wife, Cyndi) was a frequent fixture on TV and in the press. OTOH, and much of this we only know now, looking back: - He was a good, but not particularly _great_, player. Sabermetrics were in their infancy when he played, and we didn’t have measures like WAR, but looking at it now, only once did he score a bWAR above 5 (5.1 in 1975), and only scored a 4+ in four seasons. - He won four Gold Gloves, but I’m not sure that, in retrospect, he was a particularly good fielder (someone more informed than me could comment more on that, I’m sure). Baseball Reference gives him negative defensive WAR ratings in every season during which he was a full-time player; I’m not sure how accurate those ratings are looking back 50 years, but it’s not what one might expect to see for a four-time Gold Glove winner. - When he won the NL MVP in 1974, he was one of the best players on the NL pennant winner. But, when we look back at the MVP race, there were very likely other players who deserved it more, including Mike Schmidt, Johnny Bench, and Joe Morgan. - Looking at his “similarity scores” to other first basemen on Baseball Reference, his best matches are Garret Anderson, Al Oliver, John Olerud, and Ruben Sierra, all of whom, IMO, belong in the Hall of Very Good, rather than the Hall of Fame. - His clean-cut persona turned out to be not as it appeared to the public: Cyndi left him, and he had been having an affair with his secretary. Later in the '80s, he apparently got two different women (one of them his fiancee) pregnant at the same time. I think he’s being considered once more because he played for the Dodgers, in an era that they were very good, and he won a fair amount of hardware for that era (though, again, a fair amount of those awards may have been due to popularity and visibility as much as performance). ---
**Author:** ![Jaycat.again](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jaycat.again/32/11525_2.png) [@Jaycat.again](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jaycat.again)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2024, 10:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mlb-offseason-thread-2024-2025/1009526/26 "2024-11-04T22:41:56Z")
> [@kenobi\_65](#): > > he apparently got two different women (one of them his fiancee) pregnant at the same time. That is certainly a noteworthy feat. ---
**Author:** ![Railer13](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/railer13/32/9742_2.png) [@Railer13](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Railer13)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2024, 10:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mlb-offseason-thread-2024-2025/1009526/27 "2024-11-04T22:44:04Z")
> [@kenobi\_65](#): > > he apparently got two different women (one of them his fiancee) pregnant at the same time. > [@Jaycat.again](#): > > That is certainly a noteworthy feat. But is it HOF-worthy? ---
**Author:** ![kenobi\_65](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kenobi_65/32/13178_2.png) [@kenobi\_65](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kenobi_65)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2024, 10:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mlb-offseason-thread-2024-2025/1009526/28 "2024-11-04T22:45:00Z")
> [@Railer13](#): > > But is it HOF-worthy? I can’t remember if his eligibility window for the Jerk Hall of Fame had lapsed. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![kenobi\_65](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kenobi_65/32/13178_2.png) [@kenobi\_65](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kenobi_65)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2024, 11:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mlb-offseason-thread-2024-2025/1009526/29 "2024-11-04T23:27:22Z")
> [@kenobi\_65](#): > > I can’t speak to Parker I went back and looked at Parker. - Excellent player for five seasons (1975-79); during that span, he won two batting titles, led the NL in slugging twice, won an MVP (and finished in the top 3 two other times), and won three Gold Gloves. - His performance fell off a cliff in 1980, due to, AIUI, a combination of injuries and drug use, and he was playing at just above replacement level from 1980-84. - He moved to his hometown Reds in '84, and he had a great season in '85: he hit .312, and led the NL in doubles and RBIs. - He played for another six years, but again, pretty much at replacement level. Parker was one of the players who received a one-year suspension in 1986 as a result of the “[Pittsburgh drug trials](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pittsburgh_drug_trials),” though his suspension was commuted when he paid fines and did community service. His backers maintain that his implication in the drug trial has prevented voters from considering him for the Hall, but I think that, ultimately, he just wasn’t good enough for long enough – essentially, he had 6 really good seasons, and another 13 average-to-poor ones. ---
**Author:** ![Loach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/loach/32/350_2.png) [@Loach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loach)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2024, 2:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mlb-offseason-thread-2024-2025/1009526/30 "2024-11-05T02:03:01Z")
> [@What\_Exit](#): > > Tough call for the Yanks. He’s vital to the team, but the back end of the contract is likely to be wasted money. He will be earning $36m per year for 2025 to 2029. He’ll be 34 next year. So ages 34-38. > > Let him walk and spend the money on Juan Soto maybe. Now reports are that he’s agreed to the same deal as he previously had. I’m not sure what the purpose of opting out was. It happened immediately so it seems like this was the plan. He did genuinely seem to like being a Yankee which is his childhood team. > **[MLB Rumors: Gerrit Cole to Stay With Yankees on 4-Year, $144M Contract After...](https://syndication.bleacherreport.com/amp/10141962-mlb-rumors-gerrit-cole-to-stay-with-yankees-on-4-year-144m-contract-after-opt-out.amp.html)** > > New York Yankees pitcher Gerrit Cole is set to spend the next four seasons in the Bronx after the two sides agreed to stay together on Monday. Despite… ---
**Author:** ![What\_Exit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/what_exit/32/10652_2.png) [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2024, 2:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mlb-offseason-thread-2024-2025/1009526/31 "2024-11-05T02:09:12Z")
Crazy, cool. ---
**Author:** ![zimaane](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/a3d4f5/32.png) [@zimaane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zimaane)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2024, 6:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mlb-offseason-thread-2024-2025/1009526/32 "2024-11-05T18:16:13Z")
I guess the Yankees are covering their bases here. 😀 ---
**Author:** ![Superdude](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/superdude/32/13450_2.png) [@Superdude](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Superdude)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2024, 10:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mlb-offseason-thread-2024-2025/1009526/33 "2024-11-08T22:39:46Z")
And they’ve picked up the option on Manager [Aaron Boone](https://www.espn.com/mlb/story/_/id/42269230/aaron-boone-return-manager-yankees-pick-option). ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2024, 1:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mlb-offseason-thread-2024-2025/1009526/34 "2024-11-09T01:09:28Z")
> [@kenobi\_65](#): > > He won four Gold Gloves, but I’m not sure that, in retrospect, he was a particularly good fielder (someone more informed than me could comment more on that, I’m sure). Baseball Reference gives him negative defensive WAR ratings in ev Garvey was a better defensive player than that would suggest. For starters, almost all first basemen, even good ones, have negative defensive WAR on BBRef. Keith Hernandez is only 1.3 for his whole career and is almost universally regarded as the greatest fielder in the history of the position. ---
**Author:** ![BlankSlate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/blankslate/32/80_2.png) [@BlankSlate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BlankSlate)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2024, 2:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mlb-offseason-thread-2024-2025/1009526/35 "2024-11-09T02:26:06Z")
I’ve noticed that whenever I happen to be looking at WAR for first baseman. How can that make any sense? Who are they being measured against? I’m not convinced that dWAR, as compiled by baseball-reference, has any utility as a statistic. ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2024, 2:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mlb-offseason-thread-2024-2025/1009526/36 "2024-11-09T02:38:28Z")
I don’t grasp their system, either, but I think it compares players to ALL OTHER defensive players. In fairness you do have to account for the inescapable fact that some positions are more valuable than others. A league average defensive first baseman is not contributing as much to his team as a league average second baseman. The way BBRef does it hides it, though, in a way that makes it really, really hard to see what t he hell they did. They credit Garvey with 36.8 career offensive WAR and -11.7 defensive WAR, which adds up to his career total of… uh, 38 WAR? ---
**Author:** ![BlankSlate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/blankslate/32/80_2.png) [@BlankSlate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BlankSlate)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2024, 2:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mlb-offseason-thread-2024-2025/1009526/37 "2024-11-09T02:42:57Z")
Well, that would explain it. Why do these slow-footed guys who can’t play any other position have no range? I wonder who among modern first baseman has or had the greatest range. (I know there are a zillion other measurements of defensive worth, but this is the on that I assume disadvantages first basemen the most. ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2024, 2:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mlb-offseason-thread-2024-2025/1009526/38 "2024-11-09T02:43:46Z")
Keith Hernandez. No contest. He was AWESOME. Garvey actually moved pretty well. He started as a third baseman, but was moved to first because he couldn’t throw. ---
**Author:** ![BlankSlate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/blankslate/32/80_2.png) [@BlankSlate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BlankSlate)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2024, 2:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mlb-offseason-thread-2024-2025/1009526/39 "2024-11-09T02:52:15Z")
Just for fun, here are some Keith Hernandez defensive highlights: [![](https://img.youtube.com/vi/36udha-x3k8/maxresdefault.jpg "Keith Hernandez was TOO SMOOTH in the field! (Career defensive highlights!)") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=36udha-x3k8) ---
**Author:** ![Railer13](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/railer13/32/9742_2.png) [@Railer13](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Railer13)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2024, 3:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mlb-offseason-thread-2024-2025/1009526/40 "2024-11-09T03:55:53Z")
One overlooked (and undervalued) asset of a first baseman is the ability to catch a bad throw while holding his foot on the bag. I wish there was some metric that would measure the ‘errors saved’ by a first baseman on errant throws by the other infielders. Eric Hosmer, who won four Gold Gloves while playing first base for the Royals, was a master at catching such throws. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mlb-offseason-thread-2024-2025/1009526.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mlb-offseason-thread-2024-2025/1009526.md?page=3)