# MLB offseason thread **URL:** \ **Category:** The Game Room\ **Tags:** baseball-mlb\ **Created:** [January 3, 2009, 8:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mlb-offseason-thread/479733 "2009-01-03T20:16:46Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 7
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2009, 4:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mlb-offseason-thread/479733/121 "2009-02-04T04:40:43Z")
> [@storyteller0910](#): > > by the way, from whence comes this weird idea that Manny will play poorly with a big contract? Isn’t that premise contradicted by, you know, _every year during which Manny has ever had a big contract?_) The “B” on a Boston fan’s cap stands for “bitching.” MAnny is weird, blah blah blah. He wins ball games. ---
**Author:** ![VarlosZ](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/d78d45/32.png) [@VarlosZ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/VarlosZ)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2009, 4:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mlb-offseason-thread/479733/122 "2009-02-04T04:40:59Z")
Ollie Perez re-ups with the Mets for $36M over 3 years. They needed a starter so this isn’t terrible, but that’s a little pricey for someone so inconsistent. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2009, 5:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mlb-offseason-thread/479733/123 "2009-02-04T17:55:39Z")
> [@RickJay](#): > > The “B” on a Boston fan’s cap stands for “bitching.” MAnny is weird, blah blah blah. He wins ball games. Is that why your Jays are so heavily involved in the heated bidding, then? It says a lot that the only Sox player who spoke up in favor of keeping him was Ortiz, and that was only lukewarm for him. **Story** , the last story I read about the Mets possibility had Omar laughing it off. The concern isn’t over his having a big contract, btw, but a long one. He behaved with LA because he was focused on free agency and a monster cash-in. Boras had something to do with that, and (may well have) helped stage his exit from Boston to set that up - and how’s that workin’ out for ya, Dreadlock Boy? ---
**Author:** ![Munch](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/munch/32/5281_2.png) [@Munch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Munch)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2009, 6:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mlb-offseason-thread/479733/124 "2009-02-04T18:06:28Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > It says a lot that the only Sox player who spoke up in favor of keeping him was Ortiz, and that was only lukewarm for him. I’m curious - what \*does \*it say? That the rest of the team isn’t concerned so much about winning as they are about all being comfortable around each other in the locker room or something? That they don’t want another big contract on the roster because \*they \*want a big contract next year? I honestly don’t know what “it says a lot” means these days. ---
**Author:** ![Hawkeyeop](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/958977/32.png) [@Hawkeyeop](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hawkeyeop)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2009, 6:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mlb-offseason-thread/479733/125 "2009-02-04T18:33:50Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > Is that why your Jays are so heavily involved in the heated bidding, then? I’m guessing it has something to do with his giant contract demands. Oh and a little bit that the Blue Jay GM is a dolt. > [@](#): > > It says a lot that the only Sox player who spoke up in favor of keeping him was Ortiz, and that was only lukewarm for him. Who cares if his teammates like him? > [@](#): > > **Story** , the last story I read about the Mets possibility had Omar laughing it off. There are players who are almost as good who will be much cheaper. Plus he is 37 and probably doesn’t have too many great years left. Possibly none. If I’m Omar I’d pass too. It has nothing to do with how good a teammate I think he’d be, or how hard he would try. You don’t become a hall of fame hitter without a strong work ethic. > [@](#): > > The concern isn’t over his having a big contract, btw, but a long one. He behaved with LA because he was focused on free agency and a monster cash-in. Boras had something to do with that, and (may well have) helped stage his exit from Boston to set that up - and how’s that workin’ out for ya, Dreadlock Boy? Yeah that worked out terribly. In a depressed market, he is only being offered 25 million for next season. Man is he screwed. Maybe he hit better in LA because he got to face NL pitching. Maybe because he was no longer distracted by his issues with his front office. Maybe he felt better in the weather. Discerning a player’s motivation is a silly and pointless exercise for an outsider. ---
**Author:** ![dalej42](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/67e7ee/32.png) [@dalej42](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dalej42)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2009, 2:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mlb-offseason-thread/479733/126 "2009-02-06T02:32:15Z")
Wow, Saturday is the Diamondbacks fan fest. Yeah, I know it is a marketing tool to sell tickets for the upcoming season. Still, it will be nice to step inside the stadium and see the field where the Diamondback will win the World Series! 😛 Anyone else having one in their city? ---
**Author:** ![Least\_Original\_User\_Name\_Ever](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e480ec/32.png) [@Least\_Original\_User\_Name\_Ever](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Least_Original_User_Name_Ever)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2009, 2:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mlb-offseason-thread/479733/127 "2009-02-06T02:38:14Z")
> [@dalej42](#): > > Wow, Saturday is the Diamondbacks fan fest. Yeah, I know it is a marketing tool to sell tickets for the upcoming season. Still, it will be nice to step inside the stadium and see the field where the Diamondback will win the World Series! 😛 > > Anyone else having one in their city? We have this thing called “snow”. The baseball itch is still there, but we just hear about it through Lakeland, Florida. ---
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2009, 2:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mlb-offseason-thread/479733/128 "2009-02-06T02:45:12Z")
> [@dalej42](#): > > Still, it will be nice to step inside the stadium and see the field where the Diamondback will win the World Series! Field of Dreams? Loge seats? Right this way, sir. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2009, 2:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mlb-offseason-thread/479733/129 "2009-02-06T14:38:18Z")
> [@Munch](#): > > I’m curious - what \*does \*it say? That the rest of the team isn’t concerned so much about winning as they are about all being comfortable around each other in the locker room or something? Do you think those are mutually exclusive? ISTM winning is what makes a locker room enjoyable. That comes from players knowing they can depend on each other, that they’re all doing their best, that nobody’s hard work is being sabotaged. And I don’t doubt for a moment that they’d have continued to put up with “Manny Being Manny” if he hadn’t been dogging it. There certainly are plenty of a-holes in sports that nevertheless do their best and never attract the same negativity. **hawkeyepop** , maybe you should set your sights on Adam Dunn. As for Manny’s contract offers, remember that he staged his exit from a contract that would have given him 2 years for $40M, and now the best he can do is 1 at $25M (and the LA offer may actually be lower, if it even exists by the time this is over). Meanwhile, it’s Truck Day at Fenway Park - AKA the official start of the season! Bunches of fans gather on Yawkey Way to see moving guys loading the vans for Ft. Myers. No, I’m not kidding. ---
**Author:** ![Munch](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/munch/32/5281_2.png) [@Munch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Munch)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2009, 2:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mlb-offseason-thread/479733/130 "2009-02-06T14:50:53Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > And I don’t doubt for a moment that they’d have continued to put up with “Manny Being Manny” if he hadn’t been dogging it. As storyteller mentioned above, Manny put up a 136 OPS while with the Sox last year. That’s “dogging it”?!? > [@](#): > > Meanwhile, it’s Truck Day at Fenway Park - AKA the official start of the season! Bunches of fans gather on Yawkey Way to see moving guys loading the vans for Ft. Myers. No, I’m not kidding. Man I wished I lived in a MLB city… I have to put up with a Pirates minor league team! (Actually, they’re pretty good, and the games are cheaper and a lot of fun.) ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2009, 3:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mlb-offseason-thread/479733/131 "2009-02-06T15:30:21Z")
> [@Munch](#): > > As storyteller mentioned above, Manny put up a 136 OPS while with the Sox last year. That’s “dogging it”?!? There’s one hell of a lot more to baseball than numbers can show, but this isn’t the thread to get into that again. ---
**Author:** ![Munch](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/munch/32/5281_2.png) [@Munch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Munch)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2009, 3:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mlb-offseason-thread/479733/132 "2009-02-06T15:56:44Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > There’s one hell of a lot more to baseball than numbers can show, but this isn’t the thread to get into that again. How about wins? Manny was traded on August 1. At the time, the Red Sox were 3 games behind the Rays, with a 61-48 record (.560 percentage). If “winning is what makes a locker room enjoyable”, then you’d think everyone would have been crapping rainbows they were all so happy at the time. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2009, 4:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mlb-offseason-thread/479733/133 "2009-02-06T16:10:57Z")
:shrug: Okay, since Manny is the greatest hitter of our time, according to the numbers (whichever ones you wish to trot out), why isn’t every team in the bigs and Japan slobbering all over their shirts in their zeal to get him? Why is the very idea outright laughable to so many teams? Are they all just stupid for not running their teams the same way fantasy geeks do? ---
**Author:** ![Munch](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/munch/32/5281_2.png) [@Munch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Munch)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2009, 4:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mlb-offseason-thread/479733/134 "2009-02-06T16:15:55Z")
Because he’s 37 years old and asking for too much money? ---
**Author:** ![Asimovian](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asimovian/32/172_2.png) [@Asimovian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Asimovian)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2009, 4:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mlb-offseason-thread/479733/135 "2009-02-06T16:17:48Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > Meanwhile, it’s Truck Day at Fenway Park - AKA the official start of the season! Bunches of fans gather on Yawkey Way to see moving guys loading the vans for Ft. Myers. No, I’m not kidding. That’s tomorrow for the Dodgers. They have a Dodger Caravan week where they go around different parts of the metropolitan area meeting with sick kids and signing fan autographs and making various appearances, and it concludes tomorrow when they pack up and drive to Arizona. I will be meeting them there in about three weeks, and I am positively giddy about it. ---
**Author:** ![Munch](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/munch/32/5281_2.png) [@Munch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Munch)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2009, 4:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mlb-offseason-thread/479733/136 "2009-02-06T16:19:50Z")
And hell, if you want to win the argument, you just need to say, “Once the Red Sox got rid of Manny, they went 34-19, an almost 10% increase in winning.” Sure, there are probably a few other things that can be attributed to that, but your original argument was crap - whether it was filled with nerd stats or not. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2009, 4:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mlb-offseason-thread/479733/137 "2009-02-06T16:36:14Z")
> [@Munch](#): > > Because he’s 37 years old and asking for too much money? If he’s the transcendent player you seem to think he is, he is not too old and that is not too much money. But the very idea is, as I said, laughable to almost every team. What do you understand that the people who do this for a living do not? ---
**Author:** ![Hawkeyeop](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/958977/32.png) [@Hawkeyeop](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hawkeyeop)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2009, 4:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mlb-offseason-thread/479733/138 "2009-02-06T16:42:13Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > If he’s the transcendent player you seem to think he is, he is not too old and that is not too much money. But the very idea is, as I said, laughable to almost every team. What do you understand that the people who do this for a living do not? Transient players don’t age or you get a discount on? I don’t understand your point That they understand that betting on 37 year old to be as good as they were in their prime is a poor bet? Betting Manny will be as good at 39 is an even worse bet? I don’t want Manny on my fantasy team. The risk is too great for price he will command. Do you think that is because I’m worried about my fantasy team chemistry? Despite all this the Dodgers have offered him 1 year for 25 million or 2 years for 45 million. Those are pretty huge offers for a guy who no one wants. The fact that the Dodgers won’t go longer means they understand that guaranteeing millions to a 39 year is a bad idea. See Shefield, Gary for a prime example of the risk. ---
**Author:** ![storyteller0910](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecae2f/32.png) [@storyteller0910](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/storyteller0910)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2009, 4:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mlb-offseason-thread/479733/139 "2009-02-06T16:44:31Z")
> [@Munch](#): > > And hell, if you want to win the argument, you just need to say, “Once the Red Sox got rid of Manny, they went 34-19, an almost 10% increase in winning.” Sure, there are probably a few other things that can be attributed to that, but your original argument was crap - whether it was filled with nerd stats or not. Forget it, **Munch,** it’s Beantown. Look, the Red Sox fans have an awkward situation here. Their management ultimately decided that they really didn’t much want Manny around forever, and Manny’s agent decided that Manny shouldn’t be there because Manny’s agent wanted extra money, and so everyone acted like a bunch of assholes for a while. Now, the Red Sox fan has to deal with the fact that for no particularly good reason, the best right-handed hitter in a generation, a guy who gave them six and a half years of production in left field that literally every other team other than San Francisco would have killed for in the same period, a guy who was an absolutely essential and beloved contributor to _two_ World Championships for a team that was starved for one, is gone, and is never coming back. They’ll have to live with Jason Bay now, and Jason Bay is a good player but he will probably not produce like Manny Ramirez did. Their team is quite good, but no one really knows how well this lineup is going to produce now that Youkilis starts his first full season as the #1 guy in the offense. So the fans are embracing this irrational stance: _he wasn’t really that good his antics killed our chemistry never mind that our chemistry won us two World Series in four years he was still hurting us without him we would have won five World Series in four years and fuck Manny he sometimes didn’t run out a routine pop fly and took an extra day or two off during the year and that totally outweighs the fact that he was a better hitter than any left fielder the Yankees or Rays ever could have hoped to put out there he ruins chemistry I swear you can see it in all the losing his teams have historically done fuck Manny he wasn’t that pretty anyway and I bet he gets the syph._ Because if they don’t buy into that, then it’s just: we had the best right-handed hitter in a generation, and now we don’t. And that kind of sucks, as a fan. ---
**Author:** ![storyteller0910](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecae2f/32.png) [@storyteller0910](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/storyteller0910)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2009, 4:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mlb-offseason-thread/479733/140 "2009-02-06T16:49:37Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > If he’s the transcendent player you seem to think he is, he is not too old and that is not too much money. But the very idea is, as I said, laughable to almost every team. What do you understand that the people who do this for a living do not? I love lobster. I consider it to be “transcendant,” insofar as a food can be described as such. _Love_ that lobster. And when I go to a restaurant, if the lobster is $32 and the steak is $25, I pay the extra $8 because the lobster has tremendous value to me. Now if the owner of my local Surf-N-Turf place decides that he’s going to start selling the lobster for $1000, while the steak remains at $28, I’m skipping the lobster. Doesn’t mean I like it any less. Even the transcendant has an upper limit in value. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mlb-offseason-thread/479733.md?page=6) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mlb-offseason-thread/479733.md?page=8)