# MLB Playoffs **URL:** \ **Category:** The Game Room\ **Created:** [October 5, 2012, 11:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mlb-playoffs/636791 "2012-10-05T11:22:40Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Carmady](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f04885/32.png) [@Carmady](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Carmady)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2012, 2:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mlb-playoffs/636791/41 "2012-10-06T02:34:27Z")
> [@RTFirefly](#): > > Well, that’s the whole \*point \*of the one-game playoff: to _not_ get a decent number of tries, but instead have your continued presence in the postseason be a crapshoot, so that nobody in their right mind would give up on the race for the division championship just because they could land a wild card spot. > > I’d say it’s working perfectly. It doesn’t fix all of the problems with MLB’s postseason structure, but it fixes the one big problem it was meant to fix. Pennant races are real again, and not just in the crap divisions, but in the best ones too. It isn’t quite the same as the pre-1994 era where the division champ went on and the second-place team went home for the winter, but it’s real enough. When you have to call something “real enough”, that’s a good clue that it isn’t. What the 2nd wild card does is rob us of any decent do-or-die races, including potential do-or-die division races. Texas and Oakland should not have already clinched the playoffs before the final day. There is a world of difference between do-or-die and do-or-try-again-in-a-cheap-joke-game. You know that, which is why you used the qualifier. This gimmick is the worst of both worlds. It decreases the possibility of a great playoff race, and at the same time insults the fans and damages the integrity of the game by pretending a 1-game playoff between teams which already separated themselves from each other over 162 games is anything but a bad joke. ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2012, 2:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mlb-playoffs/636791/42 "2012-10-06T02:37:00Z")
The O’s, in the late innings, with a 1-run lead. Sounds like something from a game of ‘Clue,’ doesn’t it? ---
**Author:** ![Rhiannon8404](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rhiannon8404/32/17929_2.png) [@Rhiannon8404](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rhiannon8404)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2012, 2:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mlb-playoffs/636791/43 "2012-10-06T02:43:26Z")
I hate Atlanta, but that was a stupid call. I don’t think it made a difference, though. Watching the Orioles/Rangers game now and rooting for the Orioles. How cool would it be to have two teams in orange and black in the World Series this year? (well, I think it would be cool) ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2012, 2:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mlb-playoffs/636791/44 "2012-10-06T02:52:54Z")
> [@Carmady](#): > > When you have to call something “real enough”, that’s a good clue that it isn’t. And the effort that teams assured of a wildcard spot put into trying to win their divisions took your clue and stuffed it in a wastebasket. > [@](#): > > What the 2nd wild card does is rob us of any decent do-or-die races, including potential do-or-die division races. Texas and Oakland should not have already clinched the playoffs before the final day. There is a world of difference between do-or-die and do-or-try-again-in-a-cheap-joke-game. You know that, which is why you used the qualifier. No, there’s a world of difference between do-or-die and do-or-get-a-wildcard-spot-that’s-pretty-much-equal-to-a-division-championship-spot. There’s maybe a small country’s difference (Belgium, perhaps) between do-or-die and do-or-fall-into-the-crapshoot-game. Teams clearly have a reason to try almost as hard to avoid the latter as to avoid the former. > [@](#): > > This gimmick is the worst of both worlds. It decreases the possibility of a great playoff race, and at the same time insults the fans and damages the integrity of the game by pretending a 1-game playoff between teams which already separated themselves from each other over 162 games is anything but a bad joke. Well, if what you’re saying is that you want to go back to the pre-1994 state of affairs, well, so do I. _ **But it’s not going to happen.** _ This is likely as good as it gets, in terms of motivating teams to fight for the division crown even after they’re assured of a wild card. And it’s pretty damned good in that respect. And after the Cards-Braves game tonight, it’s going to be even better in achieving its intended purpose in 2013. It dramatically weakens the value of a wild card spot. IMHO, that _improves_ the integrity of the game, relative to anything besides doing away with the wild cards. And how often has a major sport reduced the number of postseason games it has to sell to the TV and cable companies? We’re pretty much stuck with the wild card. So sure, this one-game playoff is a bit of a joke. That’s its _strength_. It’s great for the fans, and lousy for the teams that have to play in it. Sucks to be you, Braves. Sucks to be you, Rangers. Play harder next year. ---
**Author:** ![Barkis\_is\_Willin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/a183cd/32.png) [@Barkis\_is\_Willin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Barkis_is_Willin)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2012, 2:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mlb-playoffs/636791/45 "2012-10-06T02:58:58Z")
> [@BobLibDem](#): > > The call was correct. The infielder was waving off the outfielder and seemingly camped under the ball. He appeared to be able to make the play with ordinary effort, thus the infield fly was called. I’m sorry, but no. The spirit of the rule is to prevent the defense from turning a cheap double play. That ball was easily far enough into the outfield that the Cards weren’t going to be able to do that, as proven by the fact that they didn’t even attempt it. That was a very bad call. ---
**Author:** ![FoieGrasIsEvil](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foiegrasisevil/32/16638_2.png) [@FoieGrasIsEvil](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FoieGrasIsEvil)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2012, 3:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mlb-playoffs/636791/46 "2012-10-06T03:20:25Z")
> [@Barkis\_is\_Willin](#): > > I’m sorry, but no. The spirit of the rule is to prevent the defense from turning a cheap double play. That ball was easily far enough into the outfield that the Cards weren’t going to be able to do that, as proven by the fact that they didn’t even attempt it. That was a very bad call. Especially as late as it was. ---
**Author:** ![Jas09](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/d07c76/32.png) [@Jas09](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jas09)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2012, 3:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mlb-playoffs/636791/47 "2012-10-06T03:23:29Z")
> [@Barkis\_is\_Willin](#): > > I’m sorry, but no. The spirit of the rule is to prevent the defense from turning a cheap double play. That ball was easily far enough into the outfield that the Cards weren’t going to be able to do that, as proven by the fact that they didn’t even attempt it. That was a very bad call. I’m far too biased to make a valid decision on this one. But from what I can tell from the rule, it clearly violates the spirit but meets the letter - Kozma with ordinary effort could have fielded the ball. All of that said, quite an entertaining game, and I can’t really say that Atlanta deserved to win with the way they threw the ball around the field (and screwed up the baserunning on that bunt). ---
**Author:** ![DCnDC](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dcndc/32/2842_2.png) [@DCnDC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DCnDC)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2012, 3:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mlb-playoffs/636791/48 "2012-10-06T03:47:07Z")
3 outs away from knocking off the Rangers. MAN do I love being wrong! ---
**Author:** ![Suburban\_Plankton](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/suburban_plankton/32/219_2.png) [@Suburban\_Plankton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Suburban_Plankton)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2012, 3:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mlb-playoffs/636791/49 "2012-10-06T03:59:39Z")
> [@Jas09](#): > > I’m far too biased to make a valid decision on this one. But from what I can tell from the rule, it clearly violates the spirit but meets the letter - Kozma with ordinary effort could have fielded the ball. I think this is a fair assessment of the situation. On that basis, I think that the wording of the rule should be changed, because that fly ball was nowhere \*near \*the infield. And as I type this, the Orioles knock off the Rangers. They’ve had a bad couple of weeks, haven’t they? ---
**Author:** ![Carmady](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f04885/32.png) [@Carmady](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Carmady)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2012, 4:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mlb-playoffs/636791/50 "2012-10-06T04:41:46Z")
> [@RTFirefly](#): > > And the effort that teams assured of a wildcard spot put into trying to win their divisions took your clue and stuffed it in a wastebasket. Wow, you didn’t think this through. Oakland and Texas would have clinched absolutely nothing before the last day of the season under the old rules. Under the new rules they had clinched the clown game. The 2nd wild card sucked the life out of that race. Baltimore would only have clinched a play-in game under the old rules, which is identical to what happened under the new rules. So I can only assume you mean the Yankees were “assured of a wildcard spot” and kept trying to win. Except you are dead wrong. The Yankees would not have clinched a wild card until beating the Red Sox in the 2nd to last game. So now I can only ask, what the heck are you talking about, and did you even watch the regular season? Please tell me you aren’t saying it was worth having worse races in the AL so we could have the spectacular Nationals vs Braves race? > [@](#): > > There’s maybe a small country’s difference (Belgium, perhaps) between do-or-die and do-or-fall-into-the-crapshoot-game. Sorry, no. I don’t even think you believe this. It may not be a galaxy of difference, but it is at least a world and maybe several small moons. > [@](#): > > So sure, this one-game playoff is a bit of a joke. That’s its _strength_. It’s great for the fans, and lousy for the teams that have to play in it. It’s lousy for this fan (who doesn’t care about either team that lost). I don’t think making a joke of baseball is “great.” But even if I ignore that, it also makes the races themselves less interesting to me. I’m not good enough at fooling myself to believe do-or-get-a-second-chance-playing-horseshoes-for-a-spot is anywhere near do-or-die. ---
**Author:** ![wolfman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/a8b319/32.png) [@wolfman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wolfman)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2012, 4:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mlb-playoffs/636791/51 "2012-10-06T04:50:56Z")
> [@Jman](#): > > Ok, I had no idea Jim Thome was an Oriole now. As a Tiger fan that scares the shit out of me. The Detroit Zip code is like the yellow sun to Superman to Thome. I hope we don’t have to see them. ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2012, 10:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mlb-playoffs/636791/52 "2012-10-06T10:05:12Z")
> [@Carmady](#): > > Wow, you didn’t think this through. > > Oakland and Texas would have clinched absolutely nothing before the last day of the season under the old rules. Under the new rules they had clinched the clown game. The 2nd wild card sucked the life out of that race. Maybe we’re in different universes? “The 2nd wild card sucked the life out of that race.” It did? _Really??_ I mean, if your perceptions and mine are that far off from one another, I’m not sure we can have a successful conversation. > [@](#): > > So now I can only ask, what the heck are you talking about, and did you even watch the regular season? Please tell me you aren’t saying it was worth having worse races in the AL so we could have the spectacular Nationals vs Braves race? What color is the sky, and all that. > [@](#): > > I’m not good enough at fooling myself to believe do-or-get-a-second-chance-playing-horseshoes-for-a-spot is anywhere near do-or-die. Again, I’d like do-or-die too. If those are the ‘old rules’ you’re talking about, could you at least say so? At this point, the ‘old rules’ to most of us are those that applied from 1995 through 2011. Use years, for instance. I think the new rules are a vast improvement over the 1995-2011 rules, but not as good as the 1969-1993 rules that aren’t ever coming back. That’s my HO; can you do a similar statement comparing the three, just for shits and giggles? ---
**Author:** ![Morgenstern](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Morgenstern](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Morgenstern)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2012, 2:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mlb-playoffs/636791/53 "2012-10-06T14:26:12Z")
I really like this Wild Card sudden death playoff game they started this year. I hope they continue it. I am surprised to see Texas out already. Many people had picked them to make the WS. My crystal ball shows the Yankees vs. the Giants in the WS. ---
**Author:** ![Yookeroo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/yookeroo/32/323_2.png) [@Yookeroo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Yookeroo)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2012, 3:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mlb-playoffs/636791/54 "2012-10-06T15:02:04Z")
> [@Carmady](#): > > Oakland and Texas would have clinched absolutely nothing before the last day of the season under the old rules. Under the new rules they had clinched the clown game. The 2nd wild card sucked the life out of that race. You’re joking, right? ---
**Author:** ![jsc1953](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/5daacb/32.png) [@jsc1953](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jsc1953)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2012, 3:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mlb-playoffs/636791/55 "2012-10-06T15:07:11Z")
> [@Suburban\_Plankton](#): > > I think this is a fair assessment of the situation. > > On that basis, I think that the wording of the rule should be changed, because that fly ball was nowhere \*near \*the infield. But that’s not the criteria. The criteria is: can the ball be caught by an infielder? Not \*in \*the infield, _by_ an infielder. So in that sense, it was absolutely a good call. Holbrook screwed up, though, by calling it so late – I think he saw that it was going to drop, and decided (in 0.05 seconds of reflection) that the least ugly way to handle this would be to get his hand in the air. ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2012, 3:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mlb-playoffs/636791/56 "2012-10-06T15:29:55Z")
> [@Carmady](#): > > Wow, you didn’t think this through. > > Oakland and Texas would have clinched absolutely nothing before the last day of the season under the old rules. Under the new rules they had clinched the clown game. The 2nd wild card sucked the life out of that race. I found the final series absolutely thrilling. I could not disagree more. It added a tremendous drama to that race and we saw why yesterday; losing the division race is now basically the difference between surviving, or being asking to play Russian roulette with three bullets in the gun. Of course, as it turned out on the final day, the result would have bene the same under the old rules, since Baltimore won 93 games and so they and Texas would have played anyway. But it was knowing that that might not have happened that made the final series compelling; you had no idea what would happen. Now, personally, I admit I find every playoff system has drawbacks. Personally, as I’ve said before, in an ideal world where I was a multibillionaire and could pulls this shit off, I’d add more teams to MLB, at least 6-10 more, and have a 16-team playoff. But, as I have also pointed out before, I’m stupid. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2012, 3:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mlb-playoffs/636791/57 "2012-10-06T15:42:42Z")
The ball was at least 50 feet behind the infield. That’s not an ordinary effort- Kozma had to wave off Holliday, who arguably had a better angle on the thing in the first place. We can’t tell if the ball was going to drop anyway (in which case it’s a horrendous call that really fucked the Braves) or if Kozma let it drop because he heard the ump call something and didn’t know what was going on (in which case the runners got an extra base but underscores how late and unexpected the call was). The Braves had plenty of chances to win anyway: they left a lot of runners on base and their defense was uncharacteristically bad. But this call just leaves a cloud over the game. ---
**Author:** ![dalej42](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/67e7ee/32.png) [@dalej42](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dalej42)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2012, 4:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mlb-playoffs/636791/58 "2012-10-06T16:12:59Z")
So Oakland isn’t going to remove the tarp at their stadium to sell more seats? Is there any real reason behind this except for more of the, “I want a new stadium” wrangling by the A’s ownership? [Story](http://www.sfgate.com/default/article/A-s-refuse-to-remove-tarp-3923932.php) ---
**Author:** ![FoieGrasIsEvil](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foiegrasisevil/32/16638_2.png) [@FoieGrasIsEvil](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FoieGrasIsEvil)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2012, 4:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mlb-playoffs/636791/59 "2012-10-06T16:43:52Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > The ball was at least 50 feet behind the infield. That’s not an ordinary effort- Kozma had to wave off Holliday, who arguably had a better angle on the thing in the first place. We can’t tell if the ball was going to drop anyway (in which case it’s a horrendous call that really fucked the Braves) or if Kozma let it drop because he heard the ump call something and didn’t know what was going on (in which case the runners got an extra base but underscores how late and unexpected the call was). The Braves had plenty of chances to win anyway: they left a lot of runners on base and their defense was uncharacteristically bad. But this call just leaves a cloud over the game. I think the thing that bothers me so much is how it stalled the Braves momentum with such a huge delay. Not to mention that it would have been bases loaded with one out instead of two with the go-ahead run at the plate, which is a remarkably more favorable situation to be in than what the Braves ended up with. Add to that the fact that the ump put his hand in the air so damn late in the play, and had I been a Braves fan I would be absolutely livid. As a baseball fan I hate to see this, having the outcome of the game potentially altered like this. ---
**Author:** ![pseudotriton\_ruber\_ruber](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/a9a28c/32.png) [@pseudotriton\_ruber\_ruber](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pseudotriton_ruber_ruber)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2012, 4:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mlb-playoffs/636791/60 "2012-10-06T16:49:51Z")
Frustrating, sure, but at least it DID happen to the Braves. Tomahawk-chop THAT, you assholes! [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mlb-playoffs/636791.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mlb-playoffs/636791.md?page=4)