# MLB: Post-season **URL:** \ **Category:** The Game Room\ **Created:** [September 29, 2014, 2:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mlb-post-season/699860 "2014-09-29T14:06:10Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 49
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2014, 4:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mlb-post-season/699860/961 "2014-10-30T16:32:52Z")
Would it be fair to say the Giants won last night because they got to use the DH? What would have happened if they’d been looking at pinch-hitting for MadBum in the seventh or so? ---
**Author:** ![jsc1953](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/5daacb/32.png) [@jsc1953](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jsc1953)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2014, 4:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mlb-post-season/699860/962 "2014-10-30T16:37:31Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > Would it be fair to say the Giants won last night because they got to use the DH? What would have happened if they’d been looking at pinch-hitting for MadBum in the seventh or so? It certainly highlights the difference between the AL game and the NL game. Last night, though…given that the Giants had the lead, and Bumgarner can swing the bat, I’d say that there was no reason whatsoever to pinch-hit for Bumgarner. If the score had been reversed – maybe. They talked a lot last night about occasions where a starter has made 2 starts plus a relief appearance (eg, Randy Johnson in 2001). In 1965, Sandy Koufax and Jim Kaat both got 3 starts. ---
**Author:** ![fachverwirrt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/94ad74/32.png) [@fachverwirrt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/fachverwirrt)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2014, 4:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mlb-post-season/699860/963 "2014-10-30T16:38:08Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > Would it be fair to say the Giants won last night because they got to use the DH? What would have happened if they’d been looking at pinch-hitting for MadBum in the seventh or so? No. Of course, we can’t know how things would have turned out if everything had been different, but NL teams don’t just pinch-hit for effective pitchers without very good reason. The number nine batter only came up once after Bumgarner came in, and there was no one on base at the time. There would have been no reason to pinch hit for him. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2014, 4:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mlb-post-season/699860/964 "2014-10-30T16:39:53Z")
There’s also the more subtle effect of a pitcher cooling off too much, and losing focus on the next batters, from having to run the bases in a slow inning, the result of being _too good_ a hitter. I had thought I recalled Orel Hershiser getting a save as well as a couple of wins in a WS. ---
**Author:** ![Bullitt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bullitt/32/5725_2.png) [@Bullitt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bullitt)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2014, 4:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mlb-post-season/699860/965 "2014-10-30T16:42:19Z")
> [@fachverwirrt](#): > > As long as we’re nitpicking the details: given that Hudson didn’t make it out of the 2nd, he would have been hard pressed to give up a double in the 3rd. 🙂 Thanks for pointing that out, yeah. So, sloppy scoring by MLB? Here, [http://scores.espn.go.com/mlb/boxscore?id=341029107](http://scores.espn.go.com/mlb/boxscore?id=341029107) and here, > **[MLB.com | The Official Site of Major League Baseball](https://www.mlb.com)** > > Coverage includes audio and video clips, interviews, statistics, schedules and exclusive stories. it shows this (italics mine - see first line): > [@](#): > > BATTING > _**2B: A Gordon (3, T Hudson)**_ > RBI: A Gordon (2), O Infante (5) > S: A Escobar > SF: O Infante > GIDP: E Hosmer, S Perez > Royals RISP: 0-5 (S Perez 0-1, M Moustakas 0-1, N Aoki 0-2, L Cain 0-1) > Team LOB: 5 Are scoring mistakes usually corrected later? ---
**Author:** ![fachverwirrt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/94ad74/32.png) [@fachverwirrt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/fachverwirrt)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2014, 4:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mlb-post-season/699860/966 "2014-10-30T16:46:56Z")
> [@Bullitt](#): > > Thanks for pointing that out, yeah. So, sloppy scoring by MLB? Here, > > [http://scores.espn.go.com/mlb/boxscore?id=341029107](http://scores.espn.go.com/mlb/boxscore?id=341029107) > > and here, > > [MLB.com | The Official Site of Major League Baseball](http://m.mlb.com/game/2014/10/29/416387/giants-vs-royals?partnerId=LR_box#game=gid_2014_10_29_sfnmlb_kcamlb_1,game_state=Wrapup) > > it shows this (italics mine - see first line): > > Are scoring mistakes usually corrected later? I’m pretty sure the (3) means that it was his third double of the series, not that it was in the third inning. Notice that it also has 2B : P. Sandoval (3, W. Davis). Sandoval’s double was in the 8th. ---
**Author:** ![TroutMan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/troutman/32/6721_2.png) [@TroutMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TroutMan)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2014, 4:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mlb-post-season/699860/967 "2014-10-30T16:47:15Z")
> [@jsc1953](#): > > …and Bumgarner can swing the bat… Right, he’s not a typical pitcher at the plate (this year, at least). His batting average during the regular season was .258, with a slugging percentage of .470. He had 4 HRs, including 2 grand slams this season. It would have made more sense to use him as a pinch hitter than to pinch hit for him. ---
**Author:** ![Bullitt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bullitt/32/5725_2.png) [@Bullitt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bullitt)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2014, 5:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mlb-post-season/699860/968 "2014-10-30T17:33:13Z")
> [@fachverwirrt](#): > > I’m pretty sure the (3) means that it was his third double of the series, not that it was in the third inning. Notice that it also has 2B : P. Sandoval (3, W. Davis). Sandoval’s double was in the 8th. Ah, okay, thanks for that! ---
**Author:** ![Bullitt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bullitt/32/5725_2.png) [@Bullitt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bullitt)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2014, 5:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mlb-post-season/699860/969 "2014-10-30T17:38:38Z")
I looked up salary info and found this. I hope the Giants stay where they’ve been, right about 8th-highest, so just about in the top third of teams. ([http://www.breitbart.com/Breitbart-Sports/2014/10/30/World-Series-Payroll](http://www.breitbart.com/Breitbart-Sports/2014/10/30/World-Series-Payroll)) > [@](#): > > Here’s the last fifteen champions—four teams account for ten of those victories—with the winners’ MLB payroll ranking listed to the right. Five times (2001, 2002, 2003, 2005, and 2012) the World Series team with the lower of the two payrolls beat its opponent. Just two of the fifteen winners also topped all 29 other clubs in salaries, too. Tellingly, just won champion in fifteen years fell in the bottom half in payroll. > > 2014: San Francisco Giants, 7 > 2013: Boston Red Sox, 4 > 2012: San Francisco Giants, 8 > 2011: St. Louis Cardinals, 11 > 2010: San Francisco Giants, 10 > 2009: New York Yankees, 1 > 2008: Philadelphia Phillies, 12 > 2007: Boston Red Sox, 2 > 2006: St. Louis Cardinals, 11 > 2005: Chicago White Sox, 13 > 2004: Boston Red Sox, 2 > 2003: Florida Marlins, 25 > 2002: Anaheim Angels, 15 > 2001: Arizona Diamondbacks, 8 > 2000: New York Yankees, 1 Also: > [@](#): > > Had the small-market Royals triumphed—not such a far-fetched scenario given Alex Gordon’s proximity to home plate to end the game—they would have been the only team in the last decade to win a World Series with a payroll in the lower half of all MLB clubs. ---
**Author:** ![fachverwirrt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/94ad74/32.png) [@fachverwirrt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/fachverwirrt)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2014, 5:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mlb-post-season/699860/970 "2014-10-30T17:43:48Z")
> [@fachverwirrt](#): > > Again, that’s not what the rule says. [Here](http://mlb.mlb.com/mlb/downloads/y2014/official_baseball_rules.pdf) is the MLB Rulebook (PDF). The relevant rule, 10.17, is on page 113. > > Rule 10.17(b), which people keep quoting, deals specifically to the situation in which the winning run scored while the starter was in the game, and the starter pitched fewer than 5 innings. It has no relevance to this game, as the winning run scored after Hudson left the game. > > The only scenarios in which the pitcher who was in the game when the winning run scored does not get the win are: he is the starter and pitched less than 5 innings (rule 10.17(b)), or he was “ineffective in a brief appearance” (rule 10.17(c)). > > Unless you want to claim that two and a third innings of no-run, one-hit pitching is “brief and ineffective”, there is no way to assign the win to anyone except Affeldt. Period. There is no other way to read the rules. I should probably point out that “winning run” isn’t really right. It’s the pitcher who was in the game when his team took a lead which is not relinquished. In this case, that’s also the winning run. But it doesn’t have to be. ---
**Author:** ![cmkeller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cmkeller/32/118_2.png) [@cmkeller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cmkeller)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2014, 7:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mlb-post-season/699860/971 "2014-10-30T19:17:18Z")
Munch: > [@](#): > > cmkeller, I have an ALDS Royals rally towel to send you. Fire me your address when you get a chance. That’s so nice of you! Much as I appreciate the thought, you can save yourself the trouble and the postage, because…I got my rally towel before Game 6 at the K! Yes, I was actually there! (Major props to my 16-year-old son, who had the idea to surprise me with the gift of a World Series ticket!) What an amazing, awesome time that was, he couldn’t have picked a better game to send me to. But, I totally appreciate your keeping this out-of-town Royals fan in mind! Thank you! ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2014, 7:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mlb-post-season/699860/972 "2014-10-30T19:31:14Z")
Soooo ummm … ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Greenjeans](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mr.greenjeans/32/551_2.png) [@Mr.Greenjeans](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Greenjeans)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2014, 7:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mlb-post-season/699860/973 "2014-10-30T19:51:06Z")
> [@fachverwirrt](#): > > Clearly Affeldt’s stint was neither “brief” nor “ineffective”, especially in light of the rule comment. Affeldt clearly gets the win. Nothing wrong with that. I like the idea of Bumgarner getting a 5-inning save. It goes along well with the 4 HRs he hit this year. ---
**Author:** ![Suburban\_Plankton](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/suburban_plankton/32/219_2.png) [@Suburban\_Plankton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Suburban_Plankton)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2014, 8:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mlb-post-season/699860/974 "2014-10-30T20:20:48Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > Panda is going to cost the Red Sox big-time now, but he’s worth it. There’s no way the Giants can let Sandoval go anywhere after this postseason. They haven’t yet let a free agent get away that they really wanted to keep (in the Brian Sabean era). They don’t have a replacement in their farm system, and there’s not another third baseman in the free-agent market who’s better, so it makes good baseball sense to resign him…and the fan appeal, dugout/clubhouse likability, and the massive amount of Panda Hats sales makes it a good move from a business sense as well. They may (almost certainly will) ‘overpay’, but they’ll resign him. ---
**Author:** ![Suburban\_Plankton](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/suburban_plankton/32/219_2.png) [@Suburban\_Plankton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Suburban_Plankton)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2014, 8:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mlb-post-season/699860/975 "2014-10-30T20:48:06Z")
> [@Acsenray](#): > > We need a good solid decade or two in which the Yankees, Giants, Cardinals, and Red Sox don’t win any championships. Hey, the Giants already held up their end of that bargain for 5 solid decades! ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2014, 8:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mlb-post-season/699860/976 "2014-10-30T20:55:12Z")
Two championships within a decade reset that clock. ---
**Author:** ![Carmady](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f04885/32.png) [@Carmady](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Carmady)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2014, 9:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mlb-post-season/699860/977 "2014-10-30T21:11:50Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > Would it be fair to say the Giants won last night because they got to use the DH? What would have happened if they’d been looking at pinch-hitting for MadBum in the seventh or so? I don’t think they would have pinch hit for him anyway. Bochy said after the game that he was avoiding MadBum between innings, not wanting to hear that he was tired. They would have been forced to pinch hit for Affeldt though, so either somebody else would have had to pitch an inning, or MadBum comes in one inning earlier and may not be able to finish. I would say “definitely isn’t able to finish”, but I didn’t think he could finish the game as it was. ---
**Author:** ![jsc1953](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/5daacb/32.png) [@jsc1953](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jsc1953)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2014, 9:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mlb-post-season/699860/978 "2014-10-30T21:21:49Z")
> [@Carmady](#): > > I don’t think they would have pinch hit for him anyway. Bochy said after the game that he was avoiding MadBum between innings, not wanting to hear that he was tired. > > They would have been forced to pinch hit for Affeldt though, so either somebody else would have had to pitch an inning, or MadBum comes in one inning earlier and may not be able to finish. I would say “definitely isn’t able to finish”, but I didn’t think he could finish the game as it was. This is what made the game so insanely stressful (to a Giants fan; I wonder how the casual fan felt). Every inning Bumgarner came out, I wondered if this was going to be when his arm fell off and he got rocked. Every inning on offense I was begging for an insurance run, but the KC bullpen kept putting up matching zeros. With hindsight it seemed inevitable – MB was unhittable and the game was over when he came out of the bullpen. At the moment, it was far from it. ---
**Author:** ![Rick\_Kitchen](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rick_kitchen/32/522_2.png) [@Rick\_Kitchen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rick_Kitchen)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2014, 10:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mlb-post-season/699860/979 "2014-10-30T22:35:13Z")
> [@](#): > > They got beat by the Dodgers 17-0 in September. Ugh, don’t remind me. I was there. ☹ ---
**Author:** ![mhendo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mhendo/32/3159_2.png) [@mhendo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mhendo)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2014, 10:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mlb-post-season/699860/980 "2014-10-30T22:50:51Z")
> [@jsc1953](#): > > As said above, the Giants are the least likely of champions, but (the motto of this postseason) I’ll Take It. They were 13 games under .500 in June. They got shut out 8 times in July. What is this, some sort of Monty Python Yorkshiremen sketch? “When aaaah was a lad, we had to walk uphill both ways to school.” Neither of the things that you have written here are true, as far as I can tell. The Giants were never, at any stage, 13 games under .500 in June, and even their mediocre June record (10-16) is only 6 games under .500. And they were shut out six times, not eight, in July. I have no axe to grind with the Giants, but this was not some scrappy team of unheralded misfits that pulled off the biggest upset of the century, which is the story some Giants fans seem to be writing at the moment. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mlb-post-season/699860.md?page=48) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mlb-post-season/699860.md?page=50)