# MLB: Postseason 2015 **URL:** \ **Category:** The Game Room\ **Created:** [September 30, 2015, 1:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mlb-postseason-2015/733030 "2015-09-30T13:04:49Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 14
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2015, 11:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mlb-postseason-2015/733030/261 "2015-10-11T23:32:11Z")
> [@txtumbleweed](#): > > The blankety blank blanks have the Astros - Royals scheduled for a noon start tomorrow? It’s a blanking elimination game! What the blankety?!?! Is MLB TV scheduling run by complete morons or just total ones? Do they not realize people have to effin work!! 13 letter cuss word! You know they set these schedules before any of the games are played, right? So if you have a complaint about a day game being an elim game, take it up with the team that is losing. If they weren’t choking, it wouldn’t be an elim game! ---
**Author:** ![mhendo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mhendo/32/3159_2.png) [@mhendo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mhendo)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2015, 11:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mlb-postseason-2015/733030/262 "2015-10-11T23:38:33Z")
> [@Rick\_Kitchen](#): > > There are four games scheduled. \*Somebody \*has to play a day game. Has to? I wonder. The regional nature of so much baseball fandom means that they could probably put a lot of games on at the same time and not actually lose too much of the audience. I know that there are people (like many of us in this thread) who keep watching the playoffs for the sheer thrill of playoff baseball, even if their own team isn’t playing, but there also seem to be millions of baseball fans who turn off as soon as their team is eliminated, or who only really care about playoff games so long as their own team is still involved. I’d be interested to see how TV ratings would go if you held all four games in two evening timeslots (early and late). Yes, it would mean that some people could not watch all the games, but that might be offset by a larger audience among people who actually have regular 9-5 jobs and who can’t watch a game in the middle of the afternoon. ---
**Author:** ![wonky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wonky/32/393_2.png) [@wonky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wonky)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2015, 12:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mlb-postseason-2015/733030/263 "2015-10-12T00:20:08Z")
> [@mhendo](#): > > I’d be interested to see how TV ratings would go if you held all four games in two evening timeslots (early and late). Yes, it would mean that some people could not watch all the games, but that might be offset by a larger audience among people who actually have regular 9-5 jobs and who can’t watch a game in the middle of the afternoon. Flashback to the 90s when they tried that. ---
**Author:** ![mhendo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mhendo/32/3159_2.png) [@mhendo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mhendo)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2015, 12:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mlb-postseason-2015/733030/264 "2015-10-12T00:23:17Z")
> [@jsgoddess](#): > > Flashback to the 90s when they tried that. What happened? I was living in Australia and spending most of my summers watching cricket. ---
**Author:** ![wonky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wonky/32/393_2.png) [@wonky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wonky)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2015, 12:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mlb-postseason-2015/733030/265 "2015-10-12T00:32:39Z")
> [@mhendo](#): > > What happened? I was living in Australia and spending most of my summers watching cricket. All I remember is that both Ohio teams were in the playoffs, so the networks randomly decided which viewers got which games. I’m an Indians fan, but the area I was in was pretty evenly split and my brother who was living with me at the time was a Reds fan. I was lucky in that my cable package included two NBCs. The Columbus channel carried the Reds and Zanesville channel the Indians, so we had one TV tuned to each. My dad was an Indians fan and he was only going to have the Reds so he came over. ---
**Author:** ![Raygun99](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/6f9a4e/32.png) [@Raygun99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Raygun99)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2015, 1:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mlb-postseason-2015/733030/266 "2015-10-12T01:27:01Z")
So as a result of Utley’s totally legal, just part of the game slide, that resulted in 3 runs for the Dodgers, he’s been suspended for the next two games. ---
**Author:** ![Barkis\_is\_Willin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/a183cd/32.png) [@Barkis\_is\_Willin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Barkis_is_Willin)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2015, 1:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mlb-postseason-2015/733030/267 "2015-10-12T01:44:29Z")
Wow, that surprises me. So Joe Torre basically admits the Mets got completely screwed because if Utley’s slide was illegal, the batter should have been out. And obviously Utley should not have been sent back to 2nd base. ---
**Author:** ![Locrian](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/locrian/32/14146_2.png) [@Locrian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Locrian)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2015, 2:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mlb-postseason-2015/733030/268 "2015-10-12T02:24:12Z")
Here’s the MLB link with Torre’s quote: [http://m.mlb.com/news/article/154097810/dodgers-chase-utley-suspended-for-slide](http://m.mlb.com/news/article/154097810/dodgers-chase-utley-suspended-for-slide) ---
**Author:** ![Club\_33](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/df705f/32.png) [@Club\_33](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Club_33)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2015, 3:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mlb-postseason-2015/733030/269 "2015-10-12T03:28:26Z")
> [@Colibri](#): > > Straw man. No one has said that, or anything remotely like that. What you said was " these plays have the potential for causing injury even if the defensive player was taking precautions." My point is, a foul ball has the potential for causing injury. A broken bat has the potential for causing injury, running into a wall has the potential for causing injury. The whole game has the potential for causing injury. Is that where you personally draw the line - plate collisions and hard slides - or are there additional potential causes for injury that we should consider banning? And how do you reconcile it with this: > [@](#): > > And again, I’m not saying that players shouldn’t play aggressively, nor that they shouldn’t try to break up a double play. That’s exactly what Utley did. It is what any “aggresive” MLB player would have done in that situation. It is what every MLB manager would have expected their player to do in that situation. Unfortunately, a player who was trying to be a hero used poor judgement and got caught in the middle. I don’t “blame” Tejada, but he took a major risk and it didn’t work out well for him. We don’t need to change the game of baseball because of it, just like we didn’t need to when Posey screwed up. And, while I’m unlikely to convince any naysayer here, I bet if there was a way to take an anonymous poll among MLB players and managers, you would find that they would do the same thing without hesitation under similar circumstances. You would also find that the majority of them do not want the rules changed. That is, of course, just my opinion. ---
**Author:** ![Locrian](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/locrian/32/14146_2.png) [@Locrian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Locrian)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2015, 3:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mlb-postseason-2015/733030/270 "2015-10-12T03:45:58Z")
From the article, Joe Torre states: > [@](#): > > However, after thoroughly reviewing the play from all conceivable angles, I have concluded that Mr. Utley’s action warrants discipline. While I sincerely believe that Mr. Utley had no intention of injuring Ruben Tejada, and was attempting to help his Club in a critical situation, I believe his slide was in violation of Official Baseball Rule 5.09 (a)(13), which is designed to protect fielders from precisely this type of rolling block that occurs away from the base. Hmmmm… ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2015, 3:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mlb-postseason-2015/733030/271 "2015-10-12T03:51:01Z")
> [@Club\_33](#): > > What you said was " these plays have the potential for causing injury even if the defensive player was taking precautions." My point is, a foul ball has the potential for causing injury. A broken bat has the potential for causing injury, running into a wall has the potential for causing injury. The whole game has the potential for causing injury. Is that where you personally draw the line - plate collisions and hard slides - or are there additional potential causes for injury that we should consider banning? None of the actions you cite involve an intentional act by an opposing player. > [@](#): > > That’s exactly what Utley did. It is what any “aggresive” MLB player would have done in that situation. It is what every MLB manager would have expected their player to do in that situation. It’s evidently not what the Chief Officer of Baseball, someone who was a player and manager for 50 years, expected a player should do in that situation. > [@](#): > > And, while I’m unlikely to convince any naysayer here, I bet if there was a way to take an anonymous poll among MLB players and managers, you would find that they would do the same thing without hesitation under similar circumstances. You would also find that the majority of them do not want the rules changed. That is, of course, just my opinion. Torre says he will be meeting with the Player’s Union concerning a possible rule change, so I suppose we’ll find out what the opinion of the players is. And my bet is that they’ll prefer a policy that minimizes the potential for injury. ---
**Author:** ![OldGuy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/3bc359/32.png) [@OldGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/OldGuy)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2015, 3:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mlb-postseason-2015/733030/272 "2015-10-12T03:54:19Z")
> [@txtumbleweed](#): > > The blankety blank blanks have the Astros - Royals scheduled for a noon start tomorrow? It’s a blanking elimination game! What the blankety?!?! Is MLB TV scheduling run by complete morons or just total ones? Do they not realize people have to effin work!! 13 letter cuss word! Come now. There is an LA team playing a NY team who do you think is getting the evening spot. It is always that way ---
**Author:** ![Club\_33](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/df705f/32.png) [@Club\_33](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Club_33)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2015, 5:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mlb-postseason-2015/733030/273 "2015-10-12T05:22:42Z")
> [@Colibri](#): > > None of the actions you cite involve an intentional act by an opposing player. But Utley’s intention wasn’t to injure anyone, it was to break up a double play. When a pitcher throws at a batter, that is an intent to injure. If Tejada had been facing him (like he should have) and jumped out of the way (like he should have) we wouldn’t even still be talking about this. > [@](#): > > It’s evidently not what the Chief Officer of Baseball, someone who was a player and manager for 50 years, expected a player should do in that situation. Torre would have done the same thing as a player and would have chewed the head off of any player on his team that didn’t try to break up a double play. But he now has to be diplomatic here and is mindful of the media attention that the play has received. I take what he said with a grain of salt. I suspect his actions are meant to be preventative as well. A two game suspension may appease the Mets enough that it prevents a brawl (or worse) tomorrow night. Having said that, I will not be surprised in the least if a Dodger player is injured (perhaps seriously) in retaliation for what happened before the series end, whether Utley’s action was intentional or not. I hope that is not the case, and I hope that the players recognize that there was no intent there, even if the fans don’t agree. We shall see. > [@](#): > > Torre says he will be meeting with the Player’s Union concerning a possible rule change, so I suppose we’ll find out what the opinion of the players is. And my bet is that they’ll prefer a policy that minimizes the potential for injury. It will be interesting to see what happens. I think the players want to play the game the way they were taught to play it rather than a safer version, but we’ll see. ---
**Author:** ![Locrian](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/locrian/32/14146_2.png) [@Locrian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Locrian)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2015, 8:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mlb-postseason-2015/733030/274 "2015-10-12T08:56:29Z")
We should find out tomorrow before the start of the game. I think he’ll sit out tomorrow, somehow. Maybe the MLB is having a case of press paranoia. Hey, these NL games are featuring bench clearers as much as McDonald’s feature french fries! 😃 I am a Chase Utley fan. He’s a long time veteran of this silly and crazy pastime and I didn’t blink when I heard he was suspended. It wasn’t on purpose, but damn, Chase, your knee was over my head and I’m 5’9"! Besides, Dodger fans (and I live in L.A.), shouldn’t the bats be effective on such a good team with talented players like, Gonzalez, Ethier, Rollins (where the hell is he?)?? Utley’s not needed that much-- that is if they start swinging at 3-2 pitches with men on base… (trust me, the Blue love doing that.) Regardless, tomorrow’s game will feature at least ten visits to the bullpen for the teams combined, maybe 14 visits. ---
**Author:** ![John\_DiFool](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_difool/32/19543_2.png) [@John\_DiFool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_DiFool)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2015, 12:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mlb-postseason-2015/733030/275 "2015-10-12T12:44:54Z")
> [@Club\_33](#): > > But Utley’s intention wasn’t to injure anyone, it was to break up a double play. The road to hell is paved with good intentions. ---
**Author:** ![storyteller0910](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecae2f/32.png) [@storyteller0910](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/storyteller0910)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2015, 1:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mlb-postseason-2015/733030/276 "2015-10-12T13:45:43Z")
> [@Club\_33](#): > > Torre would have done the same thing as a player and would have chewed the head off of any player on his team that didn’t try to break up a double play. But he now has to be diplomatic here and is mindful of the media attention that the play has received. I take what he said with a grain of salt. This is my favorite argument, any time it comes up in any context: “Expert X totally agrees with me, even though (s)he _explicitly and publicly stated that (s)he disagrees_. (S)he’s just intimidated by the media - (a well-known characteristic of _Joe Fucking Torre_, by the way). That’s much more likely than that Joe Torre just doesn’t agree with me.” ---
**Author:** ![Barkis\_is\_Willin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/a183cd/32.png) [@Barkis\_is\_Willin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Barkis_is_Willin)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2015, 2:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mlb-postseason-2015/733030/277 "2015-10-12T14:05:24Z")
I don’t even think a rule change is necessary. Here is the rule Joe Torre referenced: A batter is out when: A preceding runner shall, in the umpire’s judgment, intentionally interfere with a fielder who is attempting to catch a thrown ball or to throw a ball in an attempt to complete any play; Rule 5.09(a)(13) Comment (Rule 6.05(m) Comment ): The objective of this rule is to penalize the offensive team for deliberate, unwarranted, unsportsmanlike action by the runner in leaving the baseline for the obvious purpose of crashing the pivot man on a double play, rather than trying to reach the base. Obviously this is an umpire’s judgment play. The rule is already there and Utley was, correctly IMO, judged to have broken it. ---
**Author:** ![Peremensoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ce7236/32.png) [@Peremensoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peremensoe)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2015, 3:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mlb-postseason-2015/733030/278 "2015-10-12T15:16:26Z")
The fact that there _is_ a debate suggests that either a rule change, or an interpretive note, and accompanying umpire directive, would be recommended, if MLB intends to make a shift in game culture stick. Regardless that Torre was able to find a written theoretical basis for Utley being in the wrong (albeit a rule which explicitly makes it a judgement call of the umpire of the moment), the fact is that common practice and game culture have not previously held a runner in Utley’s position in the wrong _for that reason_. As has been noted, crashing the pivot man, or at least throwing him off balance, is not only tolerated but expected by all parties. Players who have been objecting have done so largely on the basis of _how_ Utley went about this–too late and too high (which essentially amount to the same thing). > [@jsgoddess](#): > > I don’t see him trying to touch the bag. He’s a long way above the bag when he begins his slide, and then he gets slammed to the ground by the impact. No idea where you’re seeing him attempting to touch it. Yes, he’s too far above. That’s my first point–that it’s a matter of height, angle, and timing, not of being “wide.” He was clearly close enough to the bag to touch it, had the height and angle been better calibrated to that end.[His hand is right there.](https://mlblogsdodgers.files.wordpress.com/2015/10/utley-gettyimages-492203732.jpg?w=555&h=381) > [@txtumbleweed](#): > > And according to the rules, there’s no requirement that the runner has to not touch the bag to be considered interference. It’s strictly a judgement call by the umpire as to whether the runner made a willfull and deliberate attempt to break up the double play. > > Utley had no intention of contacting the bag as he slid. He was going directly for Tejada the entire time. I agree, except I think that he meant to appear to be reaching for the bag, as runners typically do even when they know they’re out. Contrast this with [the Holliday-Scutaro maneuver](https://cbsnewyork.files.wordpress.com/2014/06/matt-hollidays-dirty-slide.jpg), in which Holliday kind of hopped over the bag in the process of egregiously throwing his body into Scutaro’s legs, and didn’t even gesture at touching the bag. > [@Rysto](#): > > The purpose of a slide is to reach base faster. If you’re going in with a feet first slide, your feet need to touch base or you’re not making a serious attempt to reach base. The general purpose of sliding is to evade the tag; takeout slides in double-play situations are an informal adaptation. Consider [this image of a model hook slide](http://content5.videojug.com/ae/aead97b2-a8a0-68c5-b637-ff0008c99c52/how-to-execute-a-hook-slide-in-baseball.WidePlayer.jpg), from an instructional site, in which the runner is feet first, feet and body angled away from the bag, reaching to touch the corner with his hand. His center of mass is much farther out than in most of these tackles. ---
**Author:** ![Rysto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ecccb3/32.png) [@Rysto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rysto)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2015, 3:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mlb-postseason-2015/733030/279 "2015-10-12T15:22:18Z")
It’s a force play. What tag? ---
**Author:** ![Peremensoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ce7236/32.png) [@Peremensoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peremensoe)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2015, 3:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mlb-postseason-2015/733030/280 "2015-10-12T15:29:36Z")
> [@Rysto](#): > > It’s a force play. What tag? No shit. I’m saying, that’s what sliding was invented for. Not for getting to the bag faster, because you don’t. That’s why players generally don’t slide into first. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mlb-postseason-2015/733030.md?page=13) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mlb-postseason-2015/733030.md?page=15)