# MLB: Postseason 2015 **URL:** \ **Category:** The Game Room\ **Created:** [September 30, 2015, 1:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mlb-postseason-2015/733030 "2015-09-30T13:04:49Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 26
**Author:** ![Tom\_Scud](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/f08c70/32.png) [@Tom\_Scud](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tom_Scud)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2015, 8:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mlb-postseason-2015/733030/501 "2015-10-16T20:37:34Z")
> [@mhendo](#): > > As for the issue of the Jays’ celebrations, i don’t even know how that’s a question. Who gives a flying fuck about their celebrations? I’d also be willing to bet that the “great teams” of yesteryear probably also had some humdinger parties when they advanced; the only difference was they didn’t have cellphones and Twitter and Vine accounts to post their videos. Oh, back in the 50s Mickey Mantle and the Yankees never wsdfsdf okay actually can’t finish the sentence. ---
**Author:** ![Peremensoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ce7236/32.png) [@Peremensoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peremensoe)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2015, 8:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mlb-postseason-2015/733030/502 "2015-10-16T20:45:26Z")
> [@RickJay](#): > > The Jays this year are a franchise that hadn’t won anything since Jose Bautista was in seventh grade. They have a lot of players who’ve never seen the postseason, some of whom have been with the team a long time and watched as the city and indeed a whole country sort of grunted in frustration at year after year of 83-79 and 75-87. They were 50-51 at one point this year and were two bad weeks from the year being another dreary writeoff in an endless parade of dreary writeoffs in a beautiful city ESPN barely knows exist, and the players know they’re ignored, and they want to be winners but year after year it’s one disappointment after another. Some of these guys are running out of time; Bautista is 34, which is way old for a ballplayer. If he’s going to win it has to be soon or he has to leave a city he reportedly adores. And then… suddenly all hell breaks loose and they go 43-18 and they win a division, and they’re many people’s favourites to go all the way, holy shit, the city is going crazy and the stadium is packed with shrieking fans and it’s heaven. And then they lose two at home and it looks like they’ve blown the ALDS and all they did in August and September was kind of wasted, and then they come back, and then The Seventh Inning. The emotions of elation and victory are so tangible you can feel it pushing on you as you walk down the street in Toronto. > > Among a million other things, this is why baseball is the best game ever invented; it brings your emotions up and down over the course of years and distills them into moments. The seventh inning was so emotionally charged not just because of the events in it but because of the context and story of Toronto baseball - hell, Toronto SPORTS - over the course of 22 years led to those moments. As one writer, whose name I shamefully forget, wrote about it, “They say baseball is boring. Of course it’s boring. Until it isn’t. That’s why it’s so great.” > > And why should the players not get wrapped up in that? Jose Bautista shouldn’t flip his bat? Screw that. Why play the game at all, then? Yeah. And thanks for this. ---
**Author:** ![arseNal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ecae2f/32.png) [@arseNal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/arseNal)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2015, 8:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mlb-postseason-2015/733030/503 "2015-10-16T20:50:49Z")
> [@RealityChuck](#): > > Even if were 0-2, a long fly ball or grounder to the right side would have had the same effect. So you don’t gain much by dropping it. But you do gain. The chance of either a harmless out or the same outcome (D’Arnaud out but Murphy scores) is IMO a lot greater than the chance of D’Arnaud reaching safely in that situation. Still, the most compelling argument to me is that if you froze time just as that ball leaves D’Arnaud’s bat, and then polled the Mets and all their fans about what they would want to happen, the overwhelming majority say take the run and the out. I think you’d be out of your mind to say, “No, I like D’Arnaud’s chances of doing some REAL damage – let it drop foul and let’s see what he can do with an 0-2 count against Greinke.” ---
**Author:** ![Suburban\_Plankton](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/suburban_plankton/32/219_2.png) [@Suburban\_Plankton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Suburban_Plankton)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2015, 9:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mlb-postseason-2015/733030/504 "2015-10-16T21:36:22Z")
> [@K364](#): > > Have the Jays celebrations been out of line? > > When they clinched a playoff, and when they won the ALDS were both occasions for huge self-congratulatory parties by the team itself. Is this SOP in 2015? > > Historically, the great teams realized that advancing at each step was only one more step towards the Pennant and the World Series and they stayed focussed and didn’t allow themselves to prematurely celebrate. I have no problem with it…the Giants celebrated 4 different times last year (5 if you count the ‘celebration’ when they clinched the second wild-card spot, but I don’t recall any champagne for that one). Why shouldn’t the team celebrate? ---
**Author:** ![Barkis\_is\_Willin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/a183cd/32.png) [@Barkis\_is\_Willin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Barkis_is_Willin)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2015, 10:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mlb-postseason-2015/733030/505 "2015-10-16T22:07:58Z")
> [@arseNal](#): > > But you do gain. The chance of either a harmless out or the same outcome (D’Arnaud out but Murphy scores) is IMO a lot greater than the chance of D’Arnaud reaching safely in that situation. > > Still, the most compelling argument to me is that if you froze time just as that ball leaves D’Arnaud’s bat, and then polled the Mets and all their fans about what they would want to happen, the overwhelming majority say take the run and the out. I think you’d be out of your mind to say, “No, I like D’Arnaud’s chances of doing some REAL damage – let it drop foul and let’s see what he can do with an 0-2 count against Greinke.” Of course the Mets would take the sac fly. That doesn’t make it a bad play for the Dodgers. Anytime you, on defense, have a man on 3rd with less than 2 outs in the 4th, it’s acceptable to limit the damage to one run. ---
**Author:** ![RealityChuck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/realitychuck/32/195_2.png) [@RealityChuck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RealityChuck)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2015, 11:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mlb-postseason-2015/733030/506 "2015-10-16T23:23:27Z")
> [@arseNal](#): > > But you do gain. The chance of either a harmless out or the same outcome (D’Arnaud out but Murphy scores) is IMO a lot greater than the chance of D’Arnaud reaching safely in that situation. No reason why it should be any different. In fact, it’s likely that D’Arnaud would have shortened his swing and gone for a grounder to second base, which would have scored the run anyway. > [@](#): > > Still, the most compelling argument to me is that if you froze time just as that ball leaves D’Arnaud’s bat, and then polled the Mets and all their fans about what they would want to happen, the overwhelming majority say take the run and the out. I think you’d be out of your mind to say, “No, I like D’Arnaud’s chances of doing some REAL damage – let it drop foul and let’s see what he can do with an 0-2 count against Greinke.” Sure, Mets fans loved it, but that doesn’t make it a good idea. Outs are good for the defense. You just don’t know what happens if you give a batter another swing. Heck, if Ethier had camped under the ball and dropped it, it would have been scored an error since it extended the time at bat, even though Murphy couldn’t have scored. ---
**Author:** ![robardin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/43a26b/32.png) [@robardin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/robardin)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2015, 12:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mlb-postseason-2015/733030/507 "2015-10-17T00:09:03Z")
> [@RealityChuck](#): > > Outs are good for the defense. You just don’t know what happens if you give a batter another swing. > > Heck, if Ethier had camped under the ball and dropped it, it would have been scored an error since it extended the time at bat, even though Murphy couldn’t have scored. Also, high fly balls tend to carry in funny ways. He had to stay with the play to catch it - drifting only at the end into foul territory - and of course couldn’t look down to see where the chalk line was near his feet without taking his eye off the ball. If he ran towards the line, decided to let it fall, and it somehow dropped right on the line or just inside it for a pop fly double, he’d have rightfully been crucified (figuratively) for such a cavalier attitude. ---
**Author:** ![OldGuy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/3bc359/32.png) [@OldGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/OldGuy)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2015, 12:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mlb-postseason-2015/733030/508 "2015-10-17T00:46:09Z")
> [@RealityChuck](#): > > Heck, if Ethier had camped under the ball and dropped it, it would have been scored an error since it extended the time at bat, even though Murphy couldn’t have scored. Nope. Rule 10.14e e) No error shall be charged against any fielder who permits a foul fly to fall safe with a runner on third base before two are out, if in the scorer’s judgment the fielder deliberately refuses the catch in order that the runner on third shall not score after the catch. ---
**Author:** ![harmonicamoon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/65b543/32.png) [@harmonicamoon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/harmonicamoon)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2015, 2:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mlb-postseason-2015/733030/509 "2015-10-17T02:39:46Z")
Great site. And timely, too. ---
**Author:** ![Peremensoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ce7236/32.png) [@Peremensoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peremensoe)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2015, 2:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mlb-postseason-2015/733030/510 "2015-10-17T02:45:27Z")
> [@OldGuy](#): > > Nope. Rule 10.14e > e) No error shall be charged against any fielder who permits a foul fly to fall safe with a runner on third base before two are out, if in the scorer’s judgment the fielder deliberately refuses the catch in order that the runner on third shall not score after the catch. I take “camped under the ball and dropped it” to mean catching, then dropping. Not visibly deliberately not-catching. ---
**Author:** ![Lamar\_Mundane](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/85f322/32.png) [@Lamar\_Mundane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lamar_Mundane)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2015, 3:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mlb-postseason-2015/733030/511 "2015-10-17T03:20:06Z")
It’s hard to believe how useless Troy Tulowitzki has been for the Blue Jays. He’s not just a Coors Field product, either. While he’s had some crazy good home stats, his road stats have been excellent as well. Where are all these strikeouts coming from? ---
**Author:** ![4d3fect](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/4d3fect/32/9728_2.png) [@4d3fect](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/4d3fect)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2015, 3:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mlb-postseason-2015/733030/512 "2015-10-17T03:22:35Z")
> [@RickJay](#): > > It was the damnedest inning. I’ve never seen a play like that. I’ve never seen a team make three errors in a row to start an inning. Just bizarre. Baseball is so wonderful, really. It’s the same for 130 years but still it’s always different. I can hear Vin Scully saying “just when you think you’ve seen everything…” ---
**Author:** ![Munch](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/munch/32/5281_2.png) [@Munch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Munch)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2015, 3:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mlb-postseason-2015/733030/513 "2015-10-17T03:48:56Z")
> [@Lamar\_Mundane](#): > > It’s hard to believe how useless Troy Tulowitzki has been for the Blue Jays. He’s not just a Coors Field product, either. While he’s had some crazy good home stats, his road stats have been excellent as well. > > Where are all these strikeouts coming from? Looks like he simply hasn’t recovered from his broken scapula from one month ago. ---
**Author:** ![Rysto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ecccb3/32.png) [@Rysto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rysto)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2015, 4:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mlb-postseason-2015/733030/514 "2015-10-17T04:10:26Z")
> [@Munch](#): > > Looks like he simply hasn’t recovered from his broken scapula from one month ago. He was pretty bad before the injury, but has taken it to a new low since then. I was infuriated by that at-bat where he struck out on three fastballs looking with two on and two outs. He’s pretty much an automatic out right now. Fortunately Martin draws back into the lineup now, but Encarnacion is a question mark with a recurrence of a finger injury that’s been bothering him since July. ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2015, 4:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mlb-postseason-2015/733030/515 "2015-10-17T04:21:54Z")
That was a truly amateurish at bat. Tulowitzski is obviously hurt to the point they’d be better off with Pennington playing in his place and Kawasaki on the roster. God bless him but his shoulder is messed up. Pennington and Kawasaki are quadruple A players but they’re better than this. I mean I am not overreacting to them losing Game 1; hell, the way they come back it barely bothers me and theyd have lost with Honus Wagner at short. Tulo was awful in the ALDS too, despite the home run, and you can see his shoulder bothers him. He’s sixty percent at best, and sixty percent makes him maybe the 65th best player in the Jays organization. ---
**Author:** ![Barkis\_is\_Willin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/a183cd/32.png) [@Barkis\_is\_Willin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Barkis_is_Willin)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2015, 4:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mlb-postseason-2015/733030/516 "2015-10-17T04:28:39Z")
I like Tulo but that AB was putrid. Volquez was about gassed having thrown over 100 pitches and he can’t get the bat off his shoulder? ---
**Author:** ![VarlosZ](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/d78d45/32.png) [@VarlosZ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/VarlosZ)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2015, 7:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mlb-postseason-2015/733030/517 "2015-10-17T07:31:01Z")
> [@Barkis\_is\_Willin](#): > > Of course the Mets would take the sac fly. That doesn’t make it a bad play for the Dodgers. > [@RealityChuck](#): > > Sure, Mets fans loved it, but that doesn’t make it a good idea. That Mets fans wanted him to catch the ball doesn’t **make** it a bad play for the Dodgers, but it’s a very good indication that it **is** a bad play. A baseball game is zero sum: if something is good for the Mets, that means it’s bad for the Dodgers in equal measure. And our gut (along with the numbers and history) suggests that not letting the ball drop was good for the Mets. We know intuitively that this is so, and I see no reason to think we’re wrong in this case. That’s not to say it isn’t understandable (or even expected) for Ethier to take the out, but strictly speaking it was a mistake. ---
**Author:** ![Spoons](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spoons/32/3141_2.png) [@Spoons](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spoons)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2015, 10:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mlb-postseason-2015/733030/518 "2015-10-17T10:45:30Z")
> [@RickJay](#): > > The Jays this year are a franchise that hadn’t won anything since Jose Bautista was in seventh grade. They have a lot of players who’ve never seen the postseason, some of whom have been with the team a long time and watched as the city and indeed a whole country sort of grunted in frustration at year after year of 83-79 and 75-87. They were 50-51 at one point this year and were two bad weeks from the year being another dreary writeoff in an endless parade of dreary writeoffs in a beautiful city ESPN barely knows exist, and the players know they’re ignored, and they want to be winners but year after year it’s one disappointment after another. Some of these guys are running out of time; Bautista is 34, which is way old for a ballplayer. If he’s going to win it has to be soon or he has to leave a city he reportedly adores. And then… suddenly all hell breaks loose and they go 43-18 and they win a division, and they’re many people’s favourites to go all the way, holy shit, the city is going crazy and the stadium is packed with shrieking fans and it’s heaven. And then they lose two at home and it looks like they’ve blown the ALDS and all they did in August and September was kind of wasted, and then they come back, and then The Seventh Inning. The emotions of elation and victory are so tangible you can feel it pushing on you as you walk down the street in Toronto. Beautifully stated, **Rick**. ---
**Author:** ![Ike\_Witt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ike_witt/32/283_2.png) [@Ike\_Witt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ike_Witt)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2015, 10:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mlb-postseason-2015/733030/519 "2015-10-17T22:04:32Z")
We are now seeing the David Price that the Blue Jays wanted. ---
**Author:** ![Ulf\_the\_Unwashed](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/b4bc9f/32.png) [@Ulf\_the\_Unwashed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ulf_the_Unwashed)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2015, 10:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mlb-postseason-2015/733030/520 "2015-10-17T22:41:21Z")
> [@Ike\_Witt](#): > > We are now seeing the David Price that the Blue Jays wanted. Followed closely by the Price they weren’t so thrilled about. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mlb-postseason-2015/733030.md?page=25) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mlb-postseason-2015/733030.md?page=27)