# MLB: September 2011 **URL:** \ **Category:** The Game Room\ **Created:** [September 1, 2011, 12:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mlb-september-2011/594832 "2011-09-01T12:18:58Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 11
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2011, 3:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mlb-september-2011/594832/201 "2011-09-30T15:04:39Z")
> [@wheresgeorge04](#): > > Agreed, but whattaya gonna do? SOMEONE’S head is gonna roll for the most epic collapse in baseball history, right? I can think of some players who should be sent out of town. ---
**Author:** ![Yorikke](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/yorikke/32/4335_2.png) [@Yorikke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Yorikke)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2011, 7:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mlb-september-2011/594832/202 "2011-09-30T19:23:14Z")
Yeah, well Zito should be kicked out of here, but they just can’t seem to stomach eating that salary. Same with Rowand… Joe ---
**Author:** ![Asimovian](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asimovian/32/172_2.png) [@Asimovian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Asimovian)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2011, 7:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mlb-september-2011/594832/203 "2011-09-30T19:25:57Z")
I’m just wondering if anyone will give the Dodgers anything for Eugenio Velez. Anything at all. Hello? \ ---
**Author:** ![Southern\_Yankee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/southern_yankee/32/2800_2.png) [@Southern\_Yankee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Southern_Yankee)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2011, 7:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mlb-september-2011/594832/204 "2011-09-30T19:44:11Z")
84 minutes until the playoffs! That is all. ---
**Author:** ![NAF1138](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/naf1138/32/3245_2.png) [@NAF1138](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NAF1138)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2011, 7:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mlb-september-2011/594832/205 "2011-09-30T19:58:27Z")
> [@Asimovian](#): > > I’m just wondering if anyone will give the Dodgers anything for Eugenio Velez. > > Anything at all. > > Hello? > > \ With his historic record setting talent? I think other teams would be foolish not to try to trade for him after the remarkable record he set. Matt Kemp may have missed 40-40 and the tripple crown but Eugeni0 for 43 made even bigger history by shattering the record for the worst hitless streak in major league history. He’s a freakshow. Some team will snap him right up. Think of the draw! ---
**Author:** ![Asimovian](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asimovian/32/172_2.png) [@Asimovian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Asimovian)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2011, 9:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mlb-september-2011/594832/206 "2011-09-30T21:28:42Z")
Apparently, it’s official now that Francona’s option will not be picked up (just heard that during the broadcast of the Rays/Rangers game). ---
**Author:** ![chizzuk](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e36b37/32.png) [@chizzuk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/chizzuk)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2011, 9:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mlb-september-2011/594832/207 "2011-09-30T21:32:58Z")
> [@NAF1138](#): > > Fredi getting fired would make infinitely more sense than Francona being dismissed makes. His overuse of the bullpen is almost directly responsible for their loss on Wednesday. That said, yes it would be stupid. Francona being fired is MASSIVELY stupid. Hope he lands with the Cubs and that Theo goes with him and turns that club around so that Boston fans can look out at Chicago and kick themselves. > > The fallout from this game has made me really dislike Boston fans. Hey, I’m a Red Sox fan and I’m livid over this. This collapse about lack of performance by the players, with the exception of Jacoby Ellsbury and Marco Scutaro. Francona doesn’t play on the field. Everyone bears responsibility for what happened, but it is mostly on the players. Scapegoating Francona is the stupidest thing this ownership group has done in 10 years at the helm. I’m incredibly upset over this and I don’t think they’re going to find an adequate replacement. The only way this offseason could get worse is if the rumors of Theo being interested in Chicago are true. This could turn the whole organization upside down. Changes need to be made, for sure, but not this kind. ---
**Author:** ![Asimovian](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asimovian/32/172_2.png) [@Asimovian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Asimovian)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2011, 9:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mlb-september-2011/594832/208 "2011-09-30T21:34:20Z")
> [@NAF1138](#): > > With his historic record setting talent? I think other teams would be foolish not to try to trade for him after the remarkable record he set. Matt Kemp may have missed 40-40 and the tripple crown but Eugeni0 for 43 made even bigger history by shattering the record for the worst hitless streak in major league history. He’s a freakshow. Some team will snap him right up. Think of the draw! It is difficult for me to imagine the Dodgers letting him go. But I’ll get over it. Somehow. ---
**Author:** ![Southern\_Yankee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/southern_yankee/32/2800_2.png) [@Southern\_Yankee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Southern_Yankee)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2011, 9:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mlb-september-2011/594832/209 "2011-09-30T21:59:26Z")
I hate the TBS graphic. It’s too busy and cramped. ---
**Author:** ![mhendo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mhendo/32/3159_2.png) [@mhendo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mhendo)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2011, 10:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mlb-september-2011/594832/210 "2011-09-30T22:10:01Z")
Can i just say that, after forking over $120 for [MLB.TV](http://MLB.TV), i’m pretty fucking annoyed that they want to ding me for another 6 bucks just for the extra camera angles during the playoffs. ---
**Author:** ![ShibbOleth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/848f3c/32.png) [@ShibbOleth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ShibbOleth)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2011, 10:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mlb-september-2011/594832/211 "2011-09-30T22:19:54Z")
> [@Hawkeyeop](#): > > Everyone who said the Red Sox were doomed after a 0-6 start was right! Nobody says anything about the Rays 0-6 start? ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2011, 10:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mlb-september-2011/594832/212 "2011-09-30T22:57:54Z")
Right, people (like me) said the Rays were doomed _last winter_, after losing so many key players to free agency. The system turned out to be deeper than most of us thought, though. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2011, 11:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mlb-september-2011/594832/213 "2011-09-30T23:00:25Z")
> [@Southern\_Yankee](#): > > The Rays went 17 - 10 in September, with two 5-game winning streaks. Which is good, but, I think you’ll agree, not notable. It might be for a Billy Beane team, of course. Your point, please? ---
**Author:** ![Frank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Frank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frank)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2011, 12:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mlb-september-2011/594832/214 "2011-10-01T00:02:37Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > Which is good, but, I think you’ll agree, not notable. It might be for a Billy Beane team, of course. > > Your point, please? I suspect his point is that regardless of how crummy the Red Sox played in September, Tampa still had to play well enough to _catch_ them. Which they did. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2011, 12:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mlb-september-2011/594832/215 "2011-10-01T00:19:54Z")
I suspect his point is something else, but the point is that Boston collapsed much more than TB got hot. Hard to see Tito go, he’s still the best manager in the game, but the fact is still that he lost control of the clubhouse, and, remarkably, has said so. The players, especially the ones Tito should have been able to count on to provide leadership, are still primarily at fault, for lacking sufficient determination and team spirit, sure. The exceptions are so few that it only emphasizes the problem. The front office saddled him with too many guys who had enticing numbers in their spreadsheets, and were willing to radically overpay for to the extent that they had to stint on too many other guys they needed. Theo needs to go too, taking his “new school” loser staffers with him, and then the team needs restore the scouts and baseball people who can read a guy’s heart back into power. Too many guys got lazy and fat and injured, just like last year although not as badly. Too many vets forgot they had to work to win, instead of coasting on their World Series glory, now receding into history. Wake, Papi, Tek, this is on you, too. ---
**Author:** ![Frank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Frank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frank)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2011, 12:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mlb-september-2011/594832/216 "2011-10-01T00:33:56Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > I suspect his point is something else, but the point is that Boston collapsed much more than TB got hot. Six of one; half a dozen of the other. I dunno, if you want to put heads on the guillotine because shit happened, that’s up to you, but it seems to me that that is your point. You want someone to blame, and you want heads to roll. The Red Sox are a fine team, and it just didn’t work out for them this year. But maybe if you cut off some heads, it will act as encouragement for the others. Firing a manager who won you two world series and has a .574 winning percentage in Boston should certainly improve things. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2011, 1:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mlb-september-2011/594832/217 "2011-10-01T01:31:01Z")
“It just didn’t work out” is hardly a useful explanation for _anything_. ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2011, 1:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mlb-september-2011/594832/218 "2011-10-01T01:37:03Z")
> [@Frank](#): > > Firing a manager who won you two world series and has a .574 winning percentage in Boston should certainly improve things. As a fan of another AL East team, if the Red Sox want to fire the GM who built the best teams and the only World Championships they’ve had in any of our lifetimes, after firing the manager to managed them, I am A-OK with that. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2011, 1:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mlb-september-2011/594832/219 "2011-10-01T01:47:51Z")
It’s hard to tell which moves have been Epstein’s and which Larry Lucchino’s or even John Henry’s, with the notable exception of the Beckett-Lowell deal, without which there probably wouldn’t have been those 2 WS wins. That was Lucchino’s (Epstein’s contract wasn’t renewed, he left the office on Halloween wearing a gorilla suit to disguise himself from the press, and didn’t get rehired for months later), and Epstein has said he wouldn’t have done it. Anybody could spend Henry’s money on useless free agents just as stupidly. Boston’s strength had been scouting/drafting/player development, until the last year or two when there was nobody left to help the big club. As a Jays fan, you should envy Boston’s _revenue_, not its GM. ---
**Author:** ![Thudlow\_Boink](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thudlow_boink/32/320_2.png) [@Thudlow\_Boink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thudlow_Boink)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2011, 1:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mlb-september-2011/594832/220 "2011-10-01T01:54:11Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > “It just didn’t work out” is hardly a useful explanation for _anything_. How about “It’s not you; it’s me”? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mlb-september-2011/594832.md?page=10) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mlb-september-2011/594832.md?page=12)