# MLB: September 2011 **URL:** \ **Category:** The Game Room\ **Created:** [September 1, 2011, 12:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mlb-september-2011/594832 "2011-09-01T12:18:58Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 16\ **Page:** 12
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2011, 1:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mlb-september-2011/594832/221 "2011-10-01T01:57:20Z")
Nope. 🙂 But we can still be friends. ---
**Author:** ![Frank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Frank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frank)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2011, 1:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mlb-september-2011/594832/222 "2011-10-01T01:59:48Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > “It just didn’t work out” is hardly a useful explanation for _anything_. It’s baseball, dude, it’s like politics–shit happens. It’s not like they were the Orioles; they didn’t stink up the joint. They lost the wild-card by one game. Better luck next year. Who are you, George Steinbrenner? ---
**Author:** ![Southern\_Yankee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/southern_yankee/32/2800_2.png) [@Southern\_Yankee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Southern_Yankee)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2011, 2:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mlb-september-2011/594832/223 "2011-10-01T02:08:18Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > Which is good, but, I think you’ll agree, not notable. It might be for a Billy Beane team, of course. > > Your point, please? My point is that they played at a clip in September that would put them at 102 -60 for the year. That’s notable. ---
**Author:** ![chizzuk](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e36b37/32.png) [@chizzuk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/chizzuk)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2011, 4:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mlb-september-2011/594832/224 "2011-10-01T04:44:19Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > It’s hard to tell which moves have been Epstein’s and which Larry Lucchino’s or even John Henry’s, with the notable exception of the Beckett-Lowell deal, without which there probably wouldn’t have been those 2 WS wins. That was Lucchino’s (Epstein’s contract wasn’t renewed, he left the office on Halloween wearing a gorilla suit to disguise himself from the press, and didn’t get rehired for months later), and Epstein has said he wouldn’t have done it. > > Anybody could spend Henry’s money on useless free agents just as stupidly. Boston’s strength had been scouting/drafting/player development, until the last year or two when there was nobody left to help the big club. > > As a Jays fan, you should envy Boston’s _revenue_, not its GM. Eh, this is a little strong. The big-ticket free agent signings have been undeniably weak, but almost everything else has been good. Internal development has been fantastic, he’s made some pretty decent and bold trades, signed some good lesser free agents (hello, Ortiz), etc. Let’s not overreact and throw the whole thing out the window just because the most recent month was awful. I will say, though, after watching that press conference, that I’m a bit concerned about Theo. He looked completely zoned out and lifeless and just kind of sat there with a blank stare unless he was directly addressed by name. Only in the last minute did he muster anything more than a low monotone. Basically, he looked as bad or worse than Francona did yesterday, and we all saw how that ended. Maybe he just needed some sleep, but I’m not convinced he’s sticking around if the Cubs call. It was pretty clear that he disagreed with Francona’s departure and wasn’t feeling too good about things. I know a lot of people are calling for heads on a pike, but losing the manager and the GM in the same offseason will create tremendously chaotic upheaval and that’s rarely a good thing. ---
**Author:** ![NAF1138](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/naf1138/32/3245_2.png) [@NAF1138](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NAF1138)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2011, 11:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mlb-september-2011/594832/225 "2011-10-01T11:54:10Z")
> [@chizzuk](#): > > Hey, I’m a Red Sox fan and I’m livid over this. This collapse about lack of performance by the players, with the exception of Jacoby Ellsbury and Marco Scutaro. Francona doesn’t play on the field. Everyone bears responsibility for what happened, but it is mostly on the players. > > Scapegoating Francona is the stupidest thing this ownership group has done in 10 years at the helm. I’m incredibly upset over this and I don’t think they’re going to find an adequate replacement. > > The only way this offseason could get worse is if the rumors of Theo being interested in Chicago are true. This could turn the whole organization upside down. Changes need to be made, for sure, but not this kind. You are not the type of Red Sox fan I have a problem with, but I also think that you aren’t the most typical (or at least the most visible) type of fan. You I like, you I feel sorry for because this September sucked and the offseason is going to suck too by all indications. It’s the “get the statheads out of power and reinstate people with balls” contingent that I take issue with. I hope \*they \*get just what they ask for, another 100+ years without a title. It’s the Cubs turn, let them get some good leadership. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2011, 12:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mlb-september-2011/594832/226 "2011-10-01T12:49:52Z")
> [@chizzuk](#): > > Internal development has been fantastic Not lately. There have been a few unexpected surprises, like Reddick suddenly developing plate patience and being a productive hitter (he forgot it again), and Lavarnway suddenly clicking, but the team still had to start Kyle Weiland down the stretch and had to depend on Darnell McDonald all frickin’ year. The key younger players all were drafted years ago. You’re referring in every case to actions taken some years ago, not recently. It’s a “what have you done for me lately” business, and the answer lately has been “not much”. I agree Theo looked bad, like a man who knew somebody else was taking the fall for his own failures, and was looking for a way not to lose his own job over it too. > [@](#): > > I know a lot of people are calling for heads on a pike, but losing the manager and the GM in the same offseason will create tremendously chaotic upheaval and that’s rarely a good thing. Sometimes it’s _necessary_. The dynamic has become poisonous and needs to be broken. One rule of business is that, if you decide you need to make a change, you make it _immediately_. But I don’t expect Henry, based on the integrity-less statements he made yesterday, to do it. ---
**Author:** ![Happy\_Lendervedder](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/happy_lendervedder/32/8488_2.png) [@Happy\_Lendervedder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Happy_Lendervedder)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2011, 12:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mlb-september-2011/594832/227 "2011-10-01T12:53:17Z")
The Sox aren’t even in the damn playoffs and people can’t stop talking about them. Yeesh. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2011, 12:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mlb-september-2011/594832/228 "2011-10-01T12:53:57Z")
There are a lot of New Englanders on the board, as you may know. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2011, 12:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mlb-september-2011/594832/229 "2011-10-01T12:59:22Z")
> [@Southern\_Yankee](#): > > My point is that they played at a clip in September that would put them at 102 -60 for the year. That’s notable. It’s pretty much what the best teams do all year long, every year. And don’t forget how much of TB’s September schedule was against inferior opposition. ☹ ---
**Author:** ![mhendo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mhendo/32/3159_2.png) [@mhendo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mhendo)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2011, 3:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mlb-september-2011/594832/230 "2011-10-01T15:52:40Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > And don’t forget how much of TB’s September schedule was against inferior opposition. ☹ 😕 Tampa Bay, September 2011 @TEX x 1 BAL x 3 TEX x 3 BOS x 3 @BAL x 3 @BOS x 4 @NYY x 4 TOR x 3 NYY x 3 So, they played 27 games. Of those 27, 7 were against the best team in the American League (NYY), another 4 were against an AL Division-wining team (TEX), while 7 were against a team that was ahead of them in the standings and that was leading the Wild Card (BOS). They also played another 3 against a solid .500 team (TOR). The only truly inferior opposition they faced for the whole month was the Orioles. ---
**Author:** ![Jas09](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/d07c76/32.png) [@Jas09](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jas09)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2011, 4:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mlb-september-2011/594832/231 "2011-10-01T16:04:56Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > And don’t forget how much of TB’s September schedule was against inferior opposition. ☹ > [@mhendo](#): > > 😕 > > So, they played 27 games. Of those 27, 7 were against the best team in the American League (NYY), another 4 were against an AL Division-wining team (TEX), while 7 were against a team that was ahead of them in the standings and that was leading the Wild Card (BOS). They also played another 3 against a solid .500 team (TOR). > > The only truly inferior opposition they faced for the whole month was the Orioles. [Yakety Sax](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=14299732&postcount=56)! ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2011, 4:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mlb-september-2011/594832/232 "2011-10-01T16:12:57Z")
> [@wheresgeorge04](#): > > Yeah, well Zito should be kicked out of here, but they just can’t seem to stomach eating that salary. Just noticed that - one Boston sportswriter (can’t remember which one) suggested a few weeks ago that they trade Lackey for Zito (similar contract): “What’s the worst that could happen? Zito might suck?” Sounds good to me. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2011, 7:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mlb-september-2011/594832/233 "2011-10-01T19:56:45Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > Just noticed that - one Boston sportswriter (can’t remember which one) suggested a few weeks ago that they trade Lackey for Zito (similar contract): “What’s the worst that could happen? Zito might suck?” It’s actually an intriguing idea. You’re basically exchanging players at the same position who’re equally anchor-like, same age more or less, but you never know, a change of scenery could help one or both players. Why not? Kind of a no-lose proposition. ---
**Author:** ![What\_Exit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/what_exit/32/10652_2.png) [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2011, 10:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mlb-september-2011/594832/234 "2011-10-01T22:48:02Z")
> [@RickJay](#): > > It’s actually an intriguing idea. You’re basically exchanging players at the same position who’re equally anchor-like, same age more or less, but you never know, a change of scenery could help one or both players. > > Why not? Kind of a no-lose proposition. Zito contract is pretty awful. 2012: $19.0 million. 2013: $20.0 million. 2014: $18.0 million club option w/ $7.0 million buyout (vests w/ 200 IP in 2013, 400 IP in 2012-13 or 600 IP in 2011-13) (voidable by player). 2015: Free Agent John Lackey is not as bad: 12/16/09: Signed five-year, $82.5 million contract w/ conditional option for 2015 (includes $3.5 million signing bonus). 2011: $15.25 million, 2012: $15.25 million, 2013: $15.25 million, 2014: $15.25 million. 2015 club option at Major League minimum if Lackey misses significant time with surgery for pre-existing elbow injury in 2010-14, $0.5M assignment bonus if traded; Award bonuses: $0.5M for MVP ($0.1M for 2nd-5th in vote); $0.1M for WS MVP; $75,000 for LCS MVP; $50,000 each for All Star, Gold Glove AJ’s actually looks not so awful by comparison. 2 years left at $16.5 per and done. He actually put up 190+ innings to Lackey’s 160 and Zito’s 53. I think the Red Sox would be foolish to make the trade so I hope they do. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![chizzuk](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e36b37/32.png) [@chizzuk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/chizzuk)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2011, 2:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mlb-september-2011/594832/235 "2011-10-02T02:31:08Z")
> [@What\_Exit](#): > > Zito contract is pretty awful. > 2012: $19.0 million. > 2013: $20.0 million. > 2014: $18.0 million club option w/ $7.0 million buyout (vests w/ 200 IP in 2013, 400 IP in 2012-13 or 600 IP in 2011-13) (voidable by player). > 2015: Free Agent > > John Lackey is not as bad: 12/16/09: Signed five-year, $82.5 million contract w/ conditional option for 2015 (includes $3.5 million signing bonus). 2011: $15.25 million, 2012: $15.25 million, 2013: $15.25 million, 2014: $15.25 million. 2015 club option at Major League minimum if Lackey misses significant time with surgery for pre-existing elbow injury in 2010-14, $0.5M assignment bonus if traded; Award bonuses: $0.5M for MVP ($0.1M for 2nd-5th in vote); $0.1M for WS MVP; $75,000 for LCS MVP; $50,000 each for All Star, Gold Glove > > AJ’s actually looks not so awful by comparison. 2 years left at $16.5 per and done. He actually put up 190+ innings to Lackey’s 160 and Zito’s 53. > > I think the Red Sox would be foolish to make the trade so I hope they do. 😃 However, John Lackey is also a horrible human being who gesticulates and makes faces when his fielders screw up, shows up his manager when he comes to remove him after giving up 8 runs, and cheats on and then divorces his cancer-stricken wife. And has a reputation as something of a lush. There’s more to it here than just the money. ---
**Author:** ![What\_Exit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/what_exit/32/10652_2.png) [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2011, 1:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mlb-september-2011/594832/236 "2011-10-02T13:57:28Z")
> [@chizzuk](#): > > However, John Lackey is also a horrible human being who gesticulates and makes faces when his fielders screw up, shows up his manager when he comes to remove him after giving up 8 runs, and cheats on and then divorces his cancer-stricken wife. And has a reputation as something of a lush. There’s more to it here than just the money. There is that, Zito is just a space cadet. It is funny I thought the Giants overpaid for Zito but they were getting a good pitcher but the Sox bringing Lackey to Fenway seemed like a stupid idea when they did it. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mlb-september-2011/594832.md?page=11)