# MLB: September **URL:** \ **Category:** The Game Room\ **Created:** [September 1, 2013, 5:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mlb-september/667714 "2013-09-01T05:33:51Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 13
**Author:** ![Asimovian](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asimovian/32/172_2.png) [@Asimovian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Asimovian)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2013, 5:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mlb-september/667714/241 "2013-09-27T17:14:49Z")
> [@Peremensoe](#): > > I invite _you_ to provide evidence–from inside the game, not fans’ or journalists’ opinions–to the contrary. I hesitate to wade back into this, but what the hell. Remind me again why a fight ensued if McCann’s actions were understood by everyone on the field? ---
**Author:** ![Jimmy\_Chitwood](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f475e1/32.png) [@Jimmy\_Chitwood](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jimmy_Chitwood)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2013, 5:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mlb-september/667714/242 "2013-09-27T17:19:01Z")
Because stupid schoolyard fights are _also_ understood and acceptable within that milieu. Which is why it’s stupid, obviously. I’m not sure why the existence of a thing is a defense to the argument that it’s stupid, but that’s where we are. I mean, on the one hand, this was Carlos Gomez’ fault for acting like a dick. On the other hand, the fact that Carlos Gomez, who is a dick and reacts to things in terrible blameworthy fashion, said he also would have reacted the way McCann did to his own dickish provocations is evidence that Brian McCann was not acting like a dick. ---
**Author:** ![Peremensoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ce7236/32.png) [@Peremensoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peremensoe)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2013, 5:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mlb-september/667714/243 "2013-09-27T17:26:47Z")
Heat of the moment, of course. When you’re playing a competitive team game, you deliberately adopt an us/them mentality. You are geared to stand up for _your guy_ even if he’s maybe wrong. A context like Maholm/Gomez primes the pump. ---
**Author:** ![Jimmy\_Chitwood](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f475e1/32.png) [@Jimmy\_Chitwood](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jimmy_Chitwood)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2013, 6:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mlb-september/667714/244 "2013-09-27T18:22:14Z")
There’s a very clear distinction between saying “these things, which are terrible and unacceptable, sometimes happen in the heat of the moment” and saying that because of the spirit of competitive baseball, it’s impossible to tell whether or not what McCann did was ‘right,’ single quotes included, that fans should like what he did, and that the other guy, not McCann, was in the wrong, no single quotes. Or saying that if McCann had been disciplined for standing in the basepath in order to successfully start a physical altercation with another player who was attempting to play the actual game of baseball, that would somehow have been grounds for a protest, as if McCann wasn’t even technically, much less spiritually, in violation of any rules. You seem to want to emphasize that you’re saying the first, but you’ve been saying all the rest. It’s not like the rest of us don’t understand that baseball players act like this. We’re saying they should stop. ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2013, 6:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mlb-september/667714/245 "2013-09-27T18:33:00Z")
> [@Peremensoe](#): > > Read [here](http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/mlb-big-league-stew/benches-clear-atlanta-carlos-gomez-homers-argues-braves-235815900--mlb.html), for example, where Gomez acknowledges his provocations, apologizes all around, says he respects McCann, and “if I’m the catcher, I do the same thing.” Gomez being apologetic after the fact does not change the fact that McCann acted like a jackass, and as evidence he acted like a jackass, I present the inarguable facts that 1. Despite the silly “unwritten rule” nonsense, catchers do not do what McCann did. I challenge you to show me three examples in the last forty years. 2. McCann’s actions started a fight that resulted in one of his teammates being ejected. He acted like a doofus, full stop. So did Gomez, and so for that matter did Freddie Freeman, but this pretending that McCann wasn’t a shithead is crazy. As to the fact that McCann was not ejected, I would invite us all to remember that Roger Clemens was not ejected from a game in which he **threw a broken bat at an opposing player.** Who does who doesn’t get the thumb isn’t always logical. What Gomez’s apology tells me is that he’s smarter than Brian McCann, or at least a bit more self-aware. ---
**Author:** ![What\_Exit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/what_exit/32/10652_2.png) [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2013, 7:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mlb-september/667714/246 "2013-09-27T19:54:22Z")
I knew it most of the year, but what an odd feeling for there to be no October Baseball for my Yanks. The injuries were far too numerous. I think Joe Girardi did a great job with what he had to keep the Yanks in it for so long. But once the big names never came back on time, I knew the team couldn’t keep it up. The pitching was so strong for so long but then the bullpen wore down and then the starters seem to wear down. As a Yankee fan I have been really spoiled over the last 19 years. We are almost always in the post-season and even more spoiled by having 2 greats like Rivera and Jeter all this time. Pettitte will also be retiring and Posada is already gone. They was an incredible run which I believe is unparallelled in sports history. The number of games those 4 played together is really unequaled. So next year the Yanks will economize and then reload the following year. Next year will probably prove challenging to say the least. There is a good chance Cano won’t be back if the stories of his demands are true. Only a stupid organization would come close to $305 million and 10 years and I don’t think the Yanks are that dumb. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2013, 7:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mlb-september/667714/247 "2013-09-27T19:59:25Z")
It’s certainly frustrating that they made so many penny-wise, pound-foolish moves in the offseason to help them afford Cano - those moves really hurt them this season - only to perhaps lose Cano anyway because the reported salary demands are crazy. I don’t know if either LA team would pay him the kind of money he wants. There’s going to be a lot of waiting and watching for the Yankees this offseason. ---
**Author:** ![Tanbarkie](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/a698b9/32.png) [@Tanbarkie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tanbarkie)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2013, 8:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mlb-september/667714/248 "2013-09-27T20:02:52Z")
> [@RickJay](#): > > What Gomez’s apology tells me is that he’s smarter than Brian McCann, or at least a bit more self-aware. Pretty much this. I’ve seen a number of Braves fans try to justify McCann’s actions by pointing out that Gomez apologized, while McCann didn’t. Which is just hilariously fallacious. You’re trying to convince us that McCann wasn’t acting like a douche by citing him… refusing to acknowledge that he was acting like a douche? How is that remotely convincing of anything other than making him seem like even _more_ of a douche? ---
**Author:** ![Asimovian](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asimovian/32/172_2.png) [@Asimovian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Asimovian)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2013, 8:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mlb-september/667714/249 "2013-09-27T20:11:53Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > It’s certainly frustrating that they made so many penny-wise, pound-foolish moves in the offseason to help them afford Cano - those moves really hurt them this season - only to perhaps lose Cano anyway because the reported salary demands are crazy. I don’t know if either LA team would pay him the kind of money he wants. There’s going to be a lot of waiting and watching for the Yankees this offseason. I’d be more surprised by the Angels going after him than the Dodgers. I’d think Moreno would be feeling a little gun-shy based on how things panned out this season. The Dodgers think they can afford anything, so I wouldn’t be surprised. And 2nd base is fairly thin (Mark Ellis has got another year on his contract). Who knows? ---
**Author:** ![Peremensoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ce7236/32.png) [@Peremensoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peremensoe)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2013, 8:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mlb-september/667714/250 "2013-09-27T20:47:11Z")
> [@Jimmy\_Chitwood](#): > > …saying that if McCann had been disciplined for standing in the basepath in order to successfully start a physical altercation with another player who was attempting to play the actual game of baseball, that would somehow have been grounds for a protest, as if McCann wasn’t even technically, much less spiritually, in violation of any rules. McCann _was_ officially disciplined (fined). What I said was that he did not earn an ejection, and if he had been ejected that would have been protested. He was in technical violation, and the correct call was made to resolve that. I maintain that he was not in ‘spiritual violation,’ because he was not _trying_ to cheat or subvert the game; in an unconsidered way he was attempting to uphold what he (and virtually all players) see _as_ the standards of the game. > [@Jimmy\_Chitwood](#): > > It’s not like the rest of us don’t understand that baseball players act like this. We’re saying they should stop. Well, cultures do change, and can even be changed, but probably not by people who deny that the ‘rules’ that bother them even exist. ---
**Author:** ![FoieGrasIsEvil](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foiegrasisevil/32/16638_2.png) [@FoieGrasIsEvil](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FoieGrasIsEvil)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2013, 10:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mlb-september/667714/251 "2013-09-27T22:03:24Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > It’s certainly frustrating that they made so many penny-wise, pound-foolish moves in the offseason to help them afford Cano - those moves really hurt them this season - only to perhaps lose Cano anyway because the reported salary demands are crazy. I don’t know if either LA team would pay him the kind of money he wants. There’s going to be a lot of waiting and watching for the Yankees this offseason. I heard on the radio that he’s seeking 10 years, $305 million. Good grief. It’s not so much the money per year (although it’s certainly a LOT), it’s the total years…with guaranteed contracts in the MLB contracts like that are so onerous to a team’s long-term future to be paying over 10 million a year to a guy to _not_ play after 7 or 8 years. ---
**Author:** ![mhendo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mhendo/32/3159_2.png) [@mhendo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mhendo)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2013, 10:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mlb-september/667714/252 "2013-09-27T22:05:29Z")
> [@Peremensoe](#): > > McCann _was_ officially disciplined (fined). What I said was that he did not earn an ejection, and if he had been ejected that would have been protested. > > He was in technical violation, and the correct call was made to resolve that. > > I maintain that he was not in ‘spiritual violation,’ because he was not _trying_ to cheat or subvert the game; in an unconsidered way he was attempting to uphold what he (and virtually all players) see _as_ the standards of the game. He deserved to be ejected, and if he had been ejected, any protest would have looked stupid and petulant, and should have (and probably would have) been rejected. As for the rest, it’s a long time since i’ve seen such a tortured rationalization for shitty behavior. ---
**Author:** ![Mister\_Rik](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mister_rik/32/491_2.png) [@Mister\_Rik](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mister_Rik)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2013, 5:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mlb-september/667714/253 "2013-09-28T05:23:44Z")
I’m now finding myself in the odd position, as a Mariners fan, of rooting for the Oakland A’s. From the beginning of my M’s fanship, I’ve hated the A’s because they seemed to always be the one team that always beat my Mariners. But after a few years of Angels and Rangers, I’m happy to see the A’s coming out of nowhere to win the division. Of course, that might just be my tendency to root for the underdog, which the A’s were during the whole time my Mariners were making the playoffs (and failing to actually make it to the World Series). ---
**Author:** ![Asimovian](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asimovian/32/172_2.png) [@Asimovian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Asimovian)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2013, 4:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mlb-september/667714/254 "2013-09-28T16:34:54Z")
Is it really too much to ask for the stupid Angels to get at least ONE win against Texas this weekend? C’mon, guys! ---
**Author:** ![MOIDALIZE](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e274bd/32.png) [@MOIDALIZE](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MOIDALIZE)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2013, 4:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mlb-september/667714/255 "2013-09-28T16:40:12Z")
I don’t know if I can bear to watch these last couple games. I keep waiting for the guillotine to come down. ---
**Author:** ![Asimovian](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asimovian/32/172_2.png) [@Asimovian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Asimovian)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2013, 5:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mlb-september/667714/256 "2013-09-28T17:05:42Z")
> [@MOIDALIZE](#): > > I don’t know if I can bear to watch these last couple games. I keep waiting for the guillotine to come down. The Tribe has certainly not managed to make it look easy the last couple of days. Perez tried to give me a heart attack on Thursday. ---
**Author:** ![MOIDALIZE](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e274bd/32.png) [@MOIDALIZE](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MOIDALIZE)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2013, 5:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mlb-september/667714/257 "2013-09-28T17:11:34Z")
I can’t tell you how many times I’ve exclaimed “Fucking Perez!” in the last week. ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2013, 6:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mlb-september/667714/258 "2013-09-28T18:42:32Z")
> [@Peremensoe](#): > > McCann _was_ officially disciplined (fined). What I said was that he did not earn an ejection, and if he had been ejected that would have been protested. What rule could the Braves have protested under? ---
**Author:** ![Peremensoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ce7236/32.png) [@Peremensoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peremensoe)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2013, 7:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mlb-september/667714/259 "2013-09-28T19:48:49Z")
Well… I was going to say 4.19, with the idea that there was no precedent for a violation of 7.06 (corrected on the field) being an ejection-worthy offense… but having actually looked at it I see that the “judgment” clause would have precluded it. So I retract that bit: _if_ an umpire had found McCann’s actions a threat to “discipline and order,” per 9.01(a), and ejected him, there would be no protesting that. As it turned out, he was not ejected, but was fined by the league, which means the umpires found his violation “worthy of comment” but not necessarily “flagrant” like obscenity or actual fighting. ---
**Author:** ![wonky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wonky/32/393_2.png) [@wonky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wonky)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2013, 10:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mlb-september/667714/260 "2013-09-28T22:27:22Z")
Indians win and will be playing after tomorrow (though maybe just for a chance to win a wildcard slot). [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mlb-september/667714.md?page=12) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mlb-september/667714.md?page=14)