# MLB: The Playoffs **URL:** \ **Category:** The Game Room\ **Tags:** baseball-mlb\ **Created:** [September 30, 2011, 6:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mlb-the-playoffs/598185 "2011-09-30T18:45:18Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 15
**Author:** ![Cell\_Guy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/df705f/32.png) [@Cell\_Guy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cell_Guy)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2011, 3:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mlb-the-playoffs/598185/281 "2011-10-11T03:39:06Z")
I can’t believe how Miller Park has emptied out. Yes the game is a blowout but it’s the playoffs! It looks more like a 12:30 start on a Wednesday afternoon in May than the NLCS. Add in that it’s the last game in Milwaukee this year… Great play by Furcal and nice dig by Molina at first. ---
**Author:** ![voguevixen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/b5ac83/32.png) [@voguevixen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/voguevixen)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2011, 7:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mlb-the-playoffs/598185/282 "2011-10-11T07:28:42Z")
> [@Cell\_Guy](#): > > I can’t believe how Miller Park has emptied out. Yes the game is a blowout but it’s the playoffs! I was astounded by that too - I mean, ANYTHING could’ve happened! Wow. Plus, we’re talking about the GOOD seats and everything. Bizarre. ---
**Author:** ![Tully\_Mars](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/7ab992/32.png) [@Tully\_Mars](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tully_Mars)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2011, 11:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mlb-the-playoffs/598185/283 "2011-10-11T11:33:24Z")
> [@Mahaloth](#): > > Wow, great win for Texas. I’m a Detroit fan, but that was nice for them. It was a nice win, but if the middle of the Rangers batting order doesn’t start coming through in the clutch a little more ofter, the Tigers will climb right back into it and make this interesting. Young’s playoff numbers shocked me and Hamilton is still whiffing way too often trying to hit the 5-run homer. They can’t count on Beltre, Cruz, and Napoli to do it all. ---
**Author:** ![ZenBeam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/3ab097/32.png) [@ZenBeam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ZenBeam)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2011, 1:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mlb-the-playoffs/598185/284 "2011-10-12T01:58:33Z")
If Cabrera had been tagged after the runner crossed the plate, wouldn’t the run have counted? For those not watching, bases loaded, two outs, Cabrera on 2nd. Batter grounds to third in front of Cabrera, and Cabrera stopped in the base path, and he and the third baseman looked at each other for a moment or two, then the third baseman just backed up and stepped on third. If Cabrera went forward and let himself be tagged, it wouldn’t have been a force out. I assume that the run would count then (assuming he crossed home before the out). And to go more hypothetical, what if Cabrera dove and touched the players glove with the ball in it while the baseman was running to tag third. Can you _make_ someone put you out? ---
**Author:** ![Frank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Frank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frank)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2011, 2:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mlb-the-playoffs/598185/285 "2011-10-12T02:07:23Z")
> [@ZenBeam](#): > > If Cabrera went forward and let himself be tagged, it wouldn’t have been a force out. I assume that the run would count then (assuming he crossed home before the out). The run would not count; a tag under those circumstances is still considered a force out. ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2011, 2:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mlb-the-playoffs/598185/286 "2011-10-12T02:07:45Z")
> [@ZenBeam](#): > > If Cabrera had been tagged after the runner crossed the plate, wouldn’t the run have counted? > > For those not watching, bases loaded, two outs, Cabrera on 2nd. Batter grounds to third in front of Cabrera, and Cabrera stopped in the base path, and he and the third baseman looked at each other for a moment or two, then the third baseman just backed up and stepped on third. > > If Cabrera went forward and let himself be tagged, it wouldn’t have been a force out. I assume that the run would count then (assuming he crossed home before the out). > > And to go more hypothetical, what if Cabrera dove and touched the players glove with the ball in it while the baseman was running to tag third. Can you _make_ someone put you out? The answer to all your questions is “yes.” ---
**Author:** ![ZenBeam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/3ab097/32.png) [@ZenBeam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ZenBeam)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2011, 2:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mlb-the-playoffs/598185/287 "2011-10-12T02:28:56Z")
Glad that’s settled… ---
**Author:** ![Frank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Frank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frank)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2011, 2:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mlb-the-playoffs/598185/288 "2011-10-12T02:29:10Z")
> [@RickJay](#): > > The answer to all your questions is “yes.” 4.09 (a) One run shall be scored each time a runner legally advances to and touches first, second, third and home base before three men are put out to end the inning. EXCEPTION: A run is not scored if the runner advances to home base during a play in which the third out is made … (2) by any runner being forced out … 7.08 Any runner is out when— … He or the next base is tagged before he touches the next base, after he has been forced to advance by reason of the batter becoming a runner. ---
**Author:** ![ZenBeam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/3ab097/32.png) [@ZenBeam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ZenBeam)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2011, 2:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mlb-the-playoffs/598185/289 "2011-10-12T02:32:34Z")
OK, thanks. ETA: I’m assuming that last bit is the definition of a force out, not just any out ---
**Author:** ![Frank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Frank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frank)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2011, 2:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mlb-the-playoffs/598185/290 "2011-10-12T02:35:20Z")
> [@ZenBeam](#): > > OK, thanks. You have no idea. It’s something I’ve just always known, but when it came to teasing it out of the rules . . . Sheesh. ---
**Author:** ![Frank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Frank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frank)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2011, 2:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mlb-the-playoffs/598185/291 "2011-10-12T02:37:40Z")
> [@ZenBeam](#): > > ETA: I’m assuming that last bit is the definition of a force out, not just any out Correct. I edited the rule quite a bit. You want? 7.08 Any runner is out when— (a) (1) He runs more than three feet away from his baseline to avoid being tagged unless his action is to avoid interference with a fielder fielding a batted ball. A runner’s baseline is established when the tag attempt occurs and is a straight line from the runner to the base he is attempting to reach safely; or (2) after touching first base, he leaves the baseline, obviously abandoning his effort to touch the next base; Rule 7.08(a) Comment: Any runner after reaching first base who leaves the baseline heading for his dugout or his position believing that there is no further play, may be declared out if the umpire judges the act of the runner to be considered abandoning his efforts to run the bases. Even though an out is called, the ball remains in play in regard to any other runner. This rule also covers the following and similar plays: Less than two out, score tied last of ninth inning, runner on first, batter hits a ball out of park for winning run, the runner on first passes second and Rule 7.08 65 thinking the home run automatically wins the game, cuts across diamond toward his bench as batter-runner circles bases. In this case, the base runner would be called out “for abandoning his effort to touch the next base” and batter-runner permitted to continue around bases to make his home run valid. If there are two out, home run would not count (see Rule 7.12). This is not an appeal play. PLAY. Runner believing he is called out on a tag at first or third base starts for the dugout and progresses a reasonable distance still indicating by his actions that he is out, shall be declared out for abandoning the bases. (b) He intentionally interferes with a thrown ball; or hinders a fielder attempting to make a play on a batted ball; Rule 7.08(b) Comment: A runner who is adjudged to have hindered a fielder who is attempting to make a play on a batted ball is out whether it was intentional or not. If, however, the runner has contact with a legally occupied base when he hinders the fielder, he shall not be called out unless, in the umpire’s judgment, such hindrance, whether it occurs on fair or foul territory, is intentional. If the umpire declares the hindrance intentional, the following penalty shall apply: With less than two out, the umpire shall declare both the runner and batter out. With two out, the umpire shall declare the batter out. If, in a run-down between third base and home plate, the succeeding runner has advanced and is standing on third base when the runner in a run-down is called out for offensive interference, the umpire shall send the runner standing on third base back to second base. This same principle applies if there is a run-down between second and third base and succeeding runner has reached second (the reasoning is that no runner shall advance on an interference play and a runner is considered to occupy a base until he legally has reached the next succeeding base). (c) He is tagged, when the ball is alive, while off his base. EXCEPTION: A batter-runner cannot be tagged out after overrunning or oversliding first base if he returns immediately to the base; APPROVED RULING: (1) If the impact of a runner breaks a base loose from its position, no play can be made on that runner at that base if he had reached the base safely. APPROVED RULING: (2) If a base is dislodged from its position during a play, any following runner on the same play shall be considered as touching or occupying the base if, in the umpire’s judgment, he touches or occupies the point marked by the dislodged bag. (d) He fails to retouch his base after a fair or foul ball is legally caught before he, or his base, is tagged by a fielder. He shall not be called out for failure to retouch his base after the first following pitch, or any play or attempted play. This is an appeal play; Rule 7.08(d) Comment: Runners need not “tag up” on a foul tip. They may steal on a foul tip. If a so-called tip is not caught, it becomes an ordinary foul. Runners then return to their bases. Rule 7.08 66 (e) He or the next base is tagged before he touches the next base, after he has been forced to advance by reason of the batter becoming a runner. However, if a following runner is put out on a force play, the force is removed and the runner must be tagged to be put out. The force is removed as soon as the runner touches the base to which he is forced to advance, and if he overslides or overruns the base, the runner must be tagged to be put out. However, if the forced runner, after touching the next base, retreats for any reason towards the base he had last occupied, the force play is reinstated, and he can again be put out if the defense tags the base to which he is forced; Rule 7.08(e) Comment: PLAY. Runner on first and three balls on batter: Runner steals on the next pitch, which is fourth ball, but after having touched second he overslides or overruns that base. Catcher’s throw catches him before he can return. Ruling is that runner is out. (Force out is removed.) Oversliding and overrunning situations arise at bases other than first base. For instance, before two are out, and runners on first and second, or first, second and third, the ball is hit to an infielder who tries for the double play. The runner on first beats the throw to second base but overslides the base. The relay is made to first base and the batter-runner is out. The first baseman, seeing the runner at second base off the bag, makes the return throw to second and the runner is tagged off the base. Meanwhile runners have crossed the plate. The question is: Is this a force play? Was the force removed when the batter-runner was out at first base? Do the runs that crossed the plate during this play and before the third out was made when the runner was tagged at second, count? Answer: The runs score. It is not a force play. It is a tag play. (f) He is touched by a fair ball in fair territory before the ball has touched or passed an infielder. The ball is dead and no runner may score, nor runners advance, except runners forced to advance. EXCEPTION: If a runner is touching his base when touched by an Infield Fly, he is not out, although the batter is out; Rule 7.08(f) Comment: If two runners are touched by the same fair ball, only the first one is out because the ball is instantly dead. If runner is touched by an Infield Fly when he is not touching his base, both runner and batter are out. (g) He attempts to score on a play in which the batter interferes with the play at home base before two are out. With two out, the interference puts the batter out and no score counts; (h) He passes a preceding runner before such runner is out; (i) After he has acquired legal possession of a base, he runs the bases in reverse order for the purpose of confusing the defense or making a travesty of the game. The umpire shall immediately call “Time” and declare the runner out; Rule 7.08 to 7.09 67 Rule 7.08(i) Comment: If a runner touches an unoccupied base and then thinks the ball was caught or is decoyed into returning to the base he last touched, he may be put out running back to that base, but if he reaches the previously occupied base safely he cannot be put out while in contact with that base. (j) He fails to return at once to first base after overrunning or oversliding that base. If he attempts to run to second he is out when tagged. If, after overrunning or oversliding first base he starts toward the dugout, or toward his position, and fails to return to first base at once, he is out, on appeal, when he or the base is tagged; Rule 7.08(j) Comment: Runner who touches first base in overrunning and is declared safe by the umpire has, within the intent of Rule 4.09(a) “reached first base” and any run which scores on such a play counts, even though the runner subsequently becomes the third out for failure to return “at once,” as covered in Rule 7.08(j). (k) In running or sliding for home base, he fails to touch home base and makes no attempt to return to the base, when a fielder holds the ball in his hand, while touching home base, and appeals to the umpire for the decision. Rule 7.08(k) Comment: This rule applies only where runner is on his way to the bench and the catcher would be required to chase him. It does not apply to the ordinary play where the runner misses the plate and then immediately makes an effort to touch the plate before being tagged. In that case, runner must be tagged. (l) A play on him is being made and a member of his team (other than a runner) hinders a fielder’s attempt to field a thrown ball. See Rule 7.11. For interference by a runner, see Rule 7.08(b). ---
**Author:** ![Southern\_Yankee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/southern_yankee/32/2800_2.png) [@Southern\_Yankee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Southern_Yankee)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2011, 11:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mlb-the-playoffs/598185/292 "2011-10-12T11:05:53Z")
This isn’t really about the playoffs, but there’s a very interesting [article](http://www.boston.com/sports/baseball/redsox/articles/2011/10/12/red_sox_unity_dedication_dissolved_during_epic_late_season_collapse/?page=full) about the collapse of the Red Sox on [Boston.com](http://Boston.com). It’s fascinating on a number of levels, including the depth of analysis put in to a team _not_ making the playoffs. A historical failure will do that, I guess. Some players come off pretty bad, with really only Pedroia coming out looking good. Some choice quotes: About some stars not listening to the conditioning coach: > [@](#): > > "It’ s hard for a guy making $80,000 to tell a $15 million pitcher he needs to get off his butt and do some work,’’ one source said. Francona on the lack of unity on the team: > [@](#): > > “The guys that weren’t down on the bench, I wanted them down on the bench,’’ Francona said last week in a contractual appearance on WEEI. “I wanted them to support their teammates.’’ It’s worth a read. ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2011, 1:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mlb-the-playoffs/598185/293 "2011-10-12T13:28:12Z")
> [@Frank](#): > > 7.08 Any runner is out when— > … > He or the next base is tagged before he touches the next base, after he has been > forced to advance by reason of the batter becoming a runner. Doy. I should have known this. Thanks. ---
**Author:** ![gonzomax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e8c25b/32.png) [@gonzomax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzomax)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2011, 2:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mlb-the-playoffs/598185/294 "2011-10-12T14:57:49Z")
The Tigers are hurting. Boesh out for the end of the season, broken hand. Martinez has an oblique injury. Young has an oblique injury. The injury is to the rib cage. It hurts when you turn.(rotate). So the second strings gets to play. That means the pitching better be good. ---
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2011, 3:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mlb-the-playoffs/598185/295 "2011-10-12T15:59:31Z")
Who invited Tim McCarver back? Francona had a HUGE advantage over Tim McCarver: he isn’t Tim McCarver. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2011, 4:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mlb-the-playoffs/598185/296 "2011-10-12T16:04:10Z")
I know this is pretty late at this point, but Friday was really a fantastic day for baseball with Milwaukee winning in the bottom of the ninth and Carpenter winning a classic duel against Halladay. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2011, 10:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mlb-the-playoffs/598185/297 "2011-10-12T22:54:58Z")
> [@BobLibDem](#): > > Who invited Tim McCarver back? Francona had a HUGE advantage over Tim McCarver: he isn’t Tim McCarver. I sincerely believe that the primary reason for the drop in popularity in baseball among younger fans is McCarver and Buck, especially McCarver. Are those people really the best ambassadors for the game that Fox and Selig can find? _Really_? I have to mute the set and just look over occasionally if they’re calling it. I’d rather drive nails in my ears than listen to them. ---
**Author:** ![mhendo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mhendo/32/3159_2.png) [@mhendo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mhendo)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2011, 11:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mlb-the-playoffs/598185/298 "2011-10-12T23:12:09Z")
Tim McCarver, on the slider, a few minutes ago: “The slider’s a very descriptive pitch. It actually slides along the level ground.” I don’t know where the fuck to even begin with that. ---
**Author:** ![Invisible\_Chimp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/f05b48/32.png) [@Invisible\_Chimp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Invisible_Chimp)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2011, 12:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mlb-the-playoffs/598185/299 "2011-10-13T00:06:46Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > I sincerely believe that the primary reason for the drop in popularity in baseball among younger fans is McCarver and Buck, especially McCarver. Are those people really the best ambassadors for the game that Fox and Selig can find? _Really_? > > I have to mute the set and just look over occasionally if they’re calling it. I’d rather drive nails in my ears than listen to them. By that logic, the Dodgers should be the biggest team nationally and L.A. should be a HUGE baseball town because of Vin Scully. Tim McCarver is awful, but at least he ain’t Joe Morgan. But Joe Morgan isn’t on the air anymore. The ALCS and NLCS are on at the same time. So hard to choose which one to watch. ---
**Author:** ![Hennessy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/a9a28c/32.png) [@Hennessy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hennessy)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2011, 12:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mlb-the-playoffs/598185/300 "2011-10-13T00:36:01Z")
Can you say Cardinals? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mlb-the-playoffs/598185.md?page=14) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mlb-the-playoffs/598185.md?page=16)