# MLK monument on Stone Mountain: Yea, Nay or Eh? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [October 14, 2015, 2:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mlk-monument-on-stone-mountain-yea-nay-or-eh/734633 "2015-10-14T14:58:38Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![even\_sven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/dfb087/32.png) [@even\_sven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/even_sven)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2015, 10:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mlk-monument-on-stone-mountain-yea-nay-or-eh/734633/21 "2015-10-14T22:25:27Z")
I agree with the NAACP on this one. It’s like putting a bandaid on a gaping wound and calling everything fair. ---
**Author:** ![Foggy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foggy/32/1082_2.png) [@Foggy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Foggy)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2015, 10:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mlk-monument-on-stone-mountain-yea-nay-or-eh/734633/22 "2015-10-14T22:32:34Z")
No. I’ve never like the idea of carving up mountains to honor any person or event. ---
**Author:** ![Merneith](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/57b2e6/32.png) [@Merneith](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Merneith)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2015, 10:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mlk-monument-on-stone-mountain-yea-nay-or-eh/734633/23 "2015-10-14T22:37:03Z")
I like the bell tower idea, primarily because I like bell towers and bellringing. I think building a belltower is a killer idea - but only if they actually ring the bells. I want actual bellringers employed to ring the hour. I want a peal rung every noon. I want the passing bell tolled for occasions of national importance. No, it won’t erase the Mountain’s history. I don’t think we should try to do that. But the whole time people are looking at that carving, they should be listening to Martin Luther King’s bells. Stone mountain is an important ecological area, and the bells might have a negative impact on wild life. For once … I might be willing to side against the wildlife here. That said, I wouldn’t object to adding a carving of King, Grant & Lincoln, mooning the Confederates. ---
**Author:** ![Slithy\_Tove](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slithy_tove/32/18248_2.png) [@Slithy\_Tove](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slithy_Tove)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2015, 11:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mlk-monument-on-stone-mountain-yea-nay-or-eh/734633/24 "2015-10-14T23:45:13Z")
Chip off the reliefs or erect the bell tower or, as I’d propose, carve the mountain into a big bowl and drill much-needed apartments into the sides, I don’t care. But God save our precious [gum pole](http://www.pbase.com/image/45574982) ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2015, 11:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mlk-monument-on-stone-mountain-yea-nay-or-eh/734633/25 "2015-10-14T23:59:44Z")
Gah, I can’t stay away from this thread. What’s bugging me now is the phrase, “Let freedom ring from Stone Mountain of Georgia.” Who in their right mind would think that MLK would look at Stone Mountain - which existed in its current form while he was alive - and say to himself: “Yep, that Stone Mountain is a great symbol of freedom! When I gave that speech in Washington, I was really thinking about how adding a bell to the birthplace of the Klan and a giant sculpture of people who fought to continue slavery would just be the OH so perfect symbol of liberty!” God, this idea of expropriating MLK’s message of eliminating racism to “clean up” a racist monument is just even more horribly offensive the more I think about it. ---
**Author:** ![Peremensoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ce7236/32.png) [@Peremensoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peremensoe)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2015, 12:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mlk-monument-on-stone-mountain-yea-nay-or-eh/734633/26 "2015-10-15T00:10:21Z")
Ah, NM ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2015, 12:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mlk-monument-on-stone-mountain-yea-nay-or-eh/734633/27 "2015-10-15T00:37:32Z")
> [@CalMeacham](#): > > The Taliban used artillery to destroy monumental sculptures of Buddhist figures carved in stone. I’d say that the parallel is very exact (except for the antiquity of the artwork.) That’s a pretty significant exception. The Buddhist statutes predated the birth of Christ. Stone Mountain doesn’t even predate some currently touring pop bands. ---
**Author:** ![Merneith](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/57b2e6/32.png) [@Merneith](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Merneith)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2015, 12:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mlk-monument-on-stone-mountain-yea-nay-or-eh/734633/28 "2015-10-15T00:57:33Z")
> [@Ravenman](#): > > Gah, I can’t stay away from this thread. What’s bugging me now is the phrase, “Let freedom ring from Stone Mountain of Georgia.” Who in their right mind would think that MLK would look at Stone Mountain - which existed in its current form while he was alive - and say to himself: “Yep, that Stone Mountain is a great symbol of freedom! When I gave that speech in Washington, I was really thinking about how adding a bell to the birthplace of the Klan and a giant sculpture of people who fought to continue slavery would just be the OH so perfect symbol of liberty!” That’s … King’s whole point for mentioning Stone Mountain in the first place. He was saying, in effect, “Let freedom ring out even from the top of Racism Central. Let the very birthplace of hatred be filled with the sound of freedom.” He knew exactly what Stone Mountain was and he explained exactly what he wanted to happen there. Here’s the closing section from Dr. King’s “I had a Dream” speech - > [@](#): > > … So let freedom ring from the prodigious hilltops of New Hampshire. Let freedom ring from the mighty mountains of New York. Let freedom ring from the heightening Alleghenies of Pennsylvania! > > Let freedom ring from the snowcapped Rockies of Colorado! > > Let freedom ring from the curvaceous slopes of California! > > But not only that; let freedom ring from Stone Mountain of Georgia! > > Let freedom ring from Lookout Mountain of Tennessee! > > Let freedom ring from every hill and molehill of Mississippi. From every mountainside, let freedom ring. > > And when this happens, when we allow freedom to ring, when we let it ring from every village and every hamlet, from every state and every city, we will be able to speed up that day when all of God’s children, black men and white men, Jews and Gentiles, Protestants and Catholics, will be able to join hands and sing in the words of the old Negro spiritual, “Free at last! free at last! thank God Almighty, we are free at last!” > **[I Have A Dream Speech (TEXT)](https://www.huffpost.com/entry/i-have-a-dream-speech-text-martin-luther-king-jr_n_1207734)** > > I Have A Dream Speech (TEXT) ---
**Author:** ![handsomeharry](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/e9c0ed/32.png) [@handsomeharry](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/handsomeharry)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2015, 1:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mlk-monument-on-stone-mountain-yea-nay-or-eh/734633/29 "2015-10-15T01:11:02Z")
> [@CalMeacham](#): > > More than that – Stone Mountain was the site of the Founding of the second Klan in 1915, and was owned by the Venable Brothers, who were instrumental in that re-founding. Stone Mountain’s history is closely bound to the Klan. > > On the other hand, Georgia has been trying to promote the place as an attraction and location for outings, and trying to divest the Mountain of its racist past. Hence, I suspect, this latest overture to the black community. > > What else are they going to do with it? Blast the sculpture from the rock? That feels too much like the historical destruction that the Taliban and ISIS did. > > On the other hand, a bell tower in honor of King seems much too small, in comparison to the monumental sculpture. It’ll be lost in the comparison. > > I DO think that Georgia can reclaim the mountain from its racist past, but it would require a really big effort – something like adding a same-scale (or larger) bas relief of Martin Luther King beside the Confederate leaders. > > It’s a god thing that the original plans for Stone Mountain didn’t get implemented. IIRC, they not only wanted a LOT more figures up there, but also depictions of robed KKK figures, as well. THAT would be really hard to recover from. “…to recover from”…are you alright? ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2015, 1:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mlk-monument-on-stone-mountain-yea-nay-or-eh/734633/30 "2015-10-15T01:32:32Z")
> [@Merneith](#): > > That’s … King’s whole point for mentioning Stone Mountain in the first place. He was saying, in effect, “Let freedom ring out even from the top of Racism Central. Let the very birthplace of hatred be filled with the sound of freedom.” He knew exactly what Stone Mountain was and he explained exactly what he wanted to happen there. > > Here’s the closing section from Dr. King’s “I had a Dream” speech - > > [I Have A Dream Speech (TEXT) | HuffPost Latest News](http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/01/16/i-have-a-dream-speech-text-martin-luther-king-jr_n_1207734.html) Thank you for correcting me. I would defer to the King family for their judgment. ---
**Author:** ![Ukulele\_Ike](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/df788c/32.png) [@Ukulele\_Ike](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ukulele_Ike)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2015, 2:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mlk-monument-on-stone-mountain-yea-nay-or-eh/734633/31 "2015-10-15T02:22:37Z")
As a keen admirer of Colossal Statue Kitsch, I am horrified that folks are proposing to destroy the bas-reliefs. Check out the monstrous and horrifying Volkerschlachtdenkmal in Leipzig, Germany. The centennial monument to the Battle of Nations against the Napoleonic armies, it’s the largest war memorial in Europe and an absolute Lovecraftian nightmare of writhing stone and concrete. Needless to say, Hitler LOVED the thing and enjoyed making speeches standing in front of it. > **[Monument to the Battle of the Nations](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monument_to_the_Battle_of_the_Nations#)** > > The Monument to the Battle of the Nations (German: Völkerschlachtdenkmal, sometimes shortened to Völki or Schlachti\[citation needed\]) is a monument in Leipzig, Germany, to the 1813 Battle of Leipzig, also known as the Battle of the Nations. Paid for mostly by donations and the city of Leipzig, it was completed in 1913 for the 100th anniversary of the battle at a cost of six million goldmarks. > The monument commemorates the defeat of Napoleon's French army at Leipzig, a crucial step towards the en... The Germans didn’t tear it down; they just hold annual Bathtub Races in the enormous reflecting pool. In other words, I say that having turned the KKK shrine into a Family Fun Park was the best way to detoxify the area. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2015, 4:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mlk-monument-on-stone-mountain-yea-nay-or-eh/734633/32 "2015-10-15T04:54:14Z")
> [@Ukulele\_Ike](#): > > As a keen admirer of Colossal Statue Kitsch, I am horrified that folks are proposing to destroy the bas-reliefs. > > Check out the monstrous and horrifying Volkerschlachtdenkmal in Leipzig, Germany. The centennial monument to the Battle of Nations against the Napoleonic armies, it’s the largest war memorial in Europe and an absolute Lovecraftian nightmare of writhing stone and concrete. Needless to say, Hitler LOVED the thing and enjoyed making speeches standing in front of it. > > [Monument to the Battle of the Nations - Wikipedia](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monument_to_the_Battle_of_the_Nations#) > > The Germans didn’t tear it down; they just hold annual Bathtub Races in the enormous reflecting pool. > > . How’d we miss bombing that Cylopean piece of non-Euclidian architecture? 😕 ---
**Author:** ![Urbanredneck](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ea5d25/32.png) [@Urbanredneck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Urbanredneck)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2015, 9:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mlk-monument-on-stone-mountain-yea-nay-or-eh/734633/33 "2015-10-15T09:39:31Z")
Almost every major city has a MLK named road and school so I really dont see any need for another one by stone mountain. ---
**Author:** ![DinoR](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dinor/32/2821_2.png) [@DinoR](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DinoR)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2015, 10:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mlk-monument-on-stone-mountain-yea-nay-or-eh/734633/34 "2015-10-15T10:55:16Z")
I am in the brilliant idea camp. Let’s jump straight into Godwinizing the thread to explain why. I’ve been to the Nazi Party Rally Ground in Nuremberg. While there I toured the museum at the Documentation Center (re-purposed from the unfinished Congress Hall for the party) that’s dedicated to studying National Socialism. I’ve stood at the podium in Zeppelin Field where Hitler addressed the National Socialist rally captured on film in Triumph of The Will. Germany didn’t erase these very key sites to the history of National Socialism. Germany preserved them and told the full story so people wouldn’t forget. Many seem to want to take a different path in the US and plaster over the ugliness of components of our history. Razing history doesn’t help us learn or grow from it as time goes on. Stone Mountain’s history is what it is. That includes both the close affiliation with the KKK and a very specific mention by Doctor King in an iconic speech. We should embrace telling all of that history. The counterpoint between KKK links and MLk’s speech make it an awesome site for doing just that. Simply erecting a bell tower doesn’t get us to the objective of telling the full story. It’s a start. A bell literally ringing out from Stone Mountain is a pretty brilliant start IMO. Even if it’s as far as we ever go that counterpoint is more valuable than trying to erase the figures carved there. “…let freedom ring from the Stone Mountain of Georgia.” ---
**Author:** ![Slithy\_Tove](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slithy_tove/32/18248_2.png) [@Slithy\_Tove](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slithy_Tove)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2015, 12:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mlk-monument-on-stone-mountain-yea-nay-or-eh/734633/35 "2015-10-15T12:04:53Z")
More “problematic” (the word now used by the cool kids as a passive-aggressive substitute for “offensive”) than the carving is [this plaque](https://c1.staticflickr.com/7/6093/6326724582_94d4c08a6c.jpg) at the visitor’s center. Just leave that there, but put the MLK speech next to it, and let people decide which one describes the society they want to live in and which one says “We lost but we were still right (even if we have to torture the narrative to tease out some abstract concept to have been right about)” _And_ at the front gate, make the entrance fee voluntarily two-tier: a lower one for admittance; and a higher one to combat kudzu covering the bas-reliefs ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_Bravo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_bravo/32/493_2.png) [@Johnny\_Bravo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_Bravo)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2015, 12:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mlk-monument-on-stone-mountain-yea-nay-or-eh/734633/36 "2015-10-15T12:21:05Z")
> [@Ukulele\_Ike](#): > > In other words, I say that having turned the KKK shrine into a Family Fun Park was the best way to detoxify the area. Agreed. Movements to erase history are reprehensible. Even when we’re talking about our reprehensible history. Let children go to the park. Let parents explain what the relief is and what it stands for, and then explain what the bell is and why it stands above that hateful monument. ---
**Author:** ![WOOKINPANUB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wookinpanub/32/132_2.png) [@WOOKINPANUB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WOOKINPANUB)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2015, 1:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mlk-monument-on-stone-mountain-yea-nay-or-eh/734633/37 "2015-10-15T13:20:17Z")
I think it’s a lovely idea. And I know how stupid this is going to sound, but do the majority of people associate Stone Mountain with the KKK? Obviously I know who the carved figures are but I wasn’t aware of any other nefarious connections prior to this thread. I realize that’s just my ignorance, but I’ve honestly never heard any reference to any of this. When I visited there many years ago I thought it was a beautiful place and the figures on the mountain aside, to me it was just a park / tourist attraction. I found the carvings to be amazing (subject matter notwithstanding) and like most of the visitors, I was mainly there for the laser show. Why \*not \*literally put Dr King on top. Maybe make a bell tower so magnificent that _it_ becomes the main attraction, or at least steals some of the thunder. ---
**Author:** ![Urbanredneck](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ea5d25/32.png) [@Urbanredneck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Urbanredneck)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2015, 1:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mlk-monument-on-stone-mountain-yea-nay-or-eh/734633/38 "2015-10-15T13:39:00Z")
There is a big cave in Missouri called [Fantastic Caverns](http://www.fantasticcaverns.com/). In its day it was used as a KKK rally hall as well as a speakeasy, concert hall, radio station, and community center. Should they seal up the cave because of that? Or maybe just never mention it? ---
**Author:** ![Urbanredneck](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ea5d25/32.png) [@Urbanredneck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Urbanredneck)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2015, 1:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mlk-monument-on-stone-mountain-yea-nay-or-eh/734633/39 "2015-10-15T13:47:59Z")
All over the south are former slave plantations, now they are tourist attractions, Of course they are not called that they are called “Antebellum”. Should those be torn down? No, I think a better way is to embrace it like this [former plantation](http://www.magnoliaplantation.com/slaverytofreedom.html) does where they have tours of former slave quarters. ---
**Author:** ![Slithy\_Tove](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slithy_tove/32/18248_2.png) [@Slithy\_Tove](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slithy_Tove)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2015, 2:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mlk-monument-on-stone-mountain-yea-nay-or-eh/734633/40 "2015-10-15T14:07:21Z")
> [@WOOKINPANUB](#): > > I found the carvings to be amazing (subject matter notwithstanding) and like most of the visitors, I was mainly there for the laser show. Why \*not \*literally put Dr King on top. Maybe make a bell tower so magnificent that _it_ becomes the main attraction, or at least steals some of the thunder. To gain support based on sheer amazingness, strictly divorced from ideology, simply requires out-amazing the KKK-inspired carving. Like this: re-carve the whole mountain into a gigantic Martin Luther King Jr. head, glowering at downtown Atlanta (no, you’re not a bad person if the Olmec head popped into your mind). A 1700 feet tall head! [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mlk-monument-on-stone-mountain-yea-nay-or-eh/734633.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mlk-monument-on-stone-mountain-yea-nay-or-eh/734633.md?page=3)