# MMR: all a lie. Damn you Dr Wakefield. (Mild) **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [February 8, 2009, 1:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mmr-all-a-lie-damn-you-dr-wakefield-mild/484920 "2009-02-08T13:26:58Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![SteveG1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bb73d2/32.png) [@SteveG1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SteveG1)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2009, 4:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mmr-all-a-lie-damn-you-dr-wakefield-mild/484920/81 "2009-02-12T04:05:31Z")
> [@Tuckerfan](#): > > One question: Is Bernie Madoff and his ilk next? If you’d like 😃 Hmmmm, ilk. There’s something about that word. Sounds sort of sinister. ---
**Author:** ![AngelSoft](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/angelsoft/32/440_2.png) [@AngelSoft](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AngelSoft)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2009, 4:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mmr-all-a-lie-damn-you-dr-wakefield-mild/484920/82 "2009-02-12T16:27:51Z")
Something I’ve always wondered is how these kids are getting enrolled in public school without having the proper vaccines? As far as I knew your kid isn’t allowed to start school until they prove they’ve had all the necessary vaccines. How can a kid make it to 13 (the one that died) without getting the vaccine. ---
**Author:** ![Ferret\_Herder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/e47774/32.png) [@Ferret\_Herder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ferret_Herder)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2009, 4:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mmr-all-a-lie-damn-you-dr-wakefield-mild/484920/83 "2009-02-12T16:31:43Z")
> [@AngelSoft](#): > > Something I’ve always wondered is how these kids are getting enrolled in public school without having the proper vaccines? As far as I knew your kid isn’t allowed to start school until they prove they’ve had all the necessary vaccines. How can a kid make it to 13 (the one that died) without getting the vaccine. [US policy](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vaccination_policy#Vaccination_policy_in_U.S.): Nearly all states allow for exemption on religious grounds and many allow exemption if you merely have a strong objection to doing it. ---
**Author:** ![Martiju](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e8c25b/32.png) [@Martiju](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Martiju)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2009, 4:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mmr-all-a-lie-damn-you-dr-wakefield-mild/484920/84 "2009-02-12T16:53:15Z")
> [@Gary\_Kumquat](#): > > The other party that I’m annoyed at here is Private Eye, who not only supported this idiot, but have still to apologise for doing so and admit they were wrong. I usually hold the Eye in great esteem, so this really is very surprising to me. Yeah, too right. Unfortunately I guess that in a case involving one man against the Govt and the NHS, they were always going to support the man - it’s kind of in their contract or something. The most I’ve ever seen since is the suggestion that they might have been wrong (about 6 months ago, maybe a bit less) but even that had the caveat that nothing conclusive had been discovered - indeed, for too long they followed the line that Wakefield was being pressurised from above. Still, the letters page still makes me laugh so I won’t cancel my subscription just yet… ---
**Author:** ![Hal\_Briston](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/a9a28c/32.png) [@Hal\_Briston](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hal_Briston)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2009, 5:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mmr-all-a-lie-damn-you-dr-wakefield-mild/484920/85 "2009-02-12T17:06:59Z")
More good news: [Parents of autistic children won’t get a payout based on nonsense](http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20090212/lf_nm_life/us_vaccines_autism). > [@](#): > > WASHINGTON (Reuters) – A special U.S. court ruled against three families on Thursday who claimed vaccines caused their children’s autism. > > \ > > More than 5,300 cases had been filed by parents who believed vaccines may have caused autism in their children and were seeking payment under the National Vaccine Injury Compensation Program. Under the program, someone injured by a vaccine does not have to prove the vaccine actually caused his or her injuries. > > All they need to do is establish that vaccines sometimes cause that particular condition or injury, as the three test cases sought to prove. The no-fault payout system is meant to protect vaccine makers from costly lawsuits that drove many out of the vaccine-making business. It’s tragic, really – these parents are going through hell, and there is no place for the blame to fall. I suppose it’s a natural reaction to latch onto something…_anything_…that they can point to and say “Ah hah! _There_ why my child is like this”. Unfortunately, they’ve all bought into a complete and utter lie, and I’m sure that by this point most are too emotionally invested in it to see the obvious truth. There’s a special place in hell reserved for the fuckers who propagated this, and for the bloodsuckers still preying on the emotions of these families. ---
**Author:** ![Boyo\_Jim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/87869e/32.png) [@Boyo\_Jim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boyo_Jim)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2009, 5:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mmr-all-a-lie-damn-you-dr-wakefield-mild/484920/86 "2009-02-12T17:09:01Z")
There is new information that casts doubt on the Times story and the author Brian Deer, as reported on _Countdown_ last night. According to Olberman, Deer wote the story about charges being filed against Wakefield, and he is also the one who filed the accusations with the General Medical Council. Facts aside, writing such an article is a gross conflict of interest, all the more so because he didn’t disclose this. ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2009, 5:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mmr-all-a-lie-damn-you-dr-wakefield-mild/484920/87 "2009-02-12T17:48:07Z")
> [@Boyo\_Jim](#): > > There is new information that casts doubt on the Times story and the author Brian Deer, as reported on _Countdown_ last night. According to Olberman, Deer wote the story about charges being filed against Wakefield, and he is also the one who filed the accusations with the General Medical Council. Facts aside, writing such an article is a gross conflict of interest, all the more so because he didn’t disclose this. If the reporter (Brian Deer) _had_ made the complaint to the doctors’ oversight group, it would not have altered the facts of Wakefield’s shoddy science and ethical lapses. However, Deer did **not** make that complaint. Some links provided by [Respectful Insolence](http://scienceblogs.com/insolence/2009/02/keith_olbermann_played_for_a_fool.php), a medical blog that’s been covering this story for years: “Dr Wakefield said that he would insist on a full GMC inquiry after it was suggested by John Reid, the Health Secretary, on Friday.” > **[Latest news & breaking headlines](https://www.thetimes.com/)** > > The latest breaking UK, US, world, business and sport news from The Times and The Sunday Times. Go beyond today's headlines with in-depth analysis and comment. “The doctors’ watchdog GMC agreed to consider a full investigation into the work of Dr Wakefield last week at the request of the Health Minister John Reid.” > **[Birmingham Live - Birmingham news, features, information and sport](https://www.birminghammail.co.uk/?objectid=14001726&method=full&siteid=50002)** > > Updated around the clock with Birmingham news, information, what's on, comment and in-depth coverage of Aston Villa, Birmingham City, West Brom, Warwickshire Cricket Club and other sports “In the wake of the Lancet’s revelation, Britain’s Health Secretary John Reid has called on the doctors’ watchdog the General Medical Council (GMC) to mount an inquiry into Wakefield’s conduct “as a matter of urgency”.” > **[News in Science - Journal regrets publishing MMR study - 24/02/2004](https://www.abc.net.au/science/news/stories/s1051931.htm)** > > The study that linked the measles mumps and rubella (MMR) vaccine to autism and subsequently led to a drop in the number of British children being vaccinated has been largely discredited according t “Last night, Dr John Reid was banging the drum for an “independent inquiry” into Dr Andrew Wakefield, the scientist who links autism and the MMR vaccine.” [http://www.highbeam.com/doc/1G1-113540358.html](http://www.highbeam.com/doc/1G1-113540358.html) (anti-vax source) What apparently happened with Olbermann is that he got things right the first time and blasted Wakefield, then the antivaxers got busy protesting. Without doing the necessary background checks, Olbermann apparently fell hook, line and sinker for claims made by sleazy antivax “journalist” David Kirby" against investigative journalist Deer. Olbermann seems to have jumped at this stuff partly because he hates Rupert Murdoch, and the Sunday Times is owned by Murdoch. Olbermann has made himself a complete ass on this one. ---
**Author:** ![Catamount](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/catamount/32/2840_2.png) [@Catamount](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Catamount)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2009, 6:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mmr-all-a-lie-damn-you-dr-wakefield-mild/484920/88 "2009-02-12T18:54:16Z")
I’m hoping that now that the “link” between the MMR vax and autism has been disproved researchers can start looking into the _real_ causes of autism. But then I’ve always been trying to see around the stars in my eyes. ---
**Author:** ![elfkin477](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/a9a28c/32.png) [@elfkin477](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elfkin477)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2009, 6:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mmr-all-a-lie-damn-you-dr-wakefield-mild/484920/89 "2009-02-12T18:57:24Z")
> [@Jaglavak](#): > > To the Oprah fans, why not send her an email? From what I’ve heard she’s got the nads to do an expose. And it would be a huge contraversial ratings-getter which is what she’s really all about anyway. Can’t hurt, might help. There’s a website for suggesting future shows: [https://www.oprah.com/ord/plugform.jsp?plugId=216](https://www.oprah.com/ord/plugform.jsp?plugId=216) ---
**Author:** ![alexandra](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e68b1a/32.png) [@alexandra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/alexandra)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2009, 7:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mmr-all-a-lie-damn-you-dr-wakefield-mild/484920/90 "2009-02-12T19:42:55Z")
> [@Martiju](#): > > Yeah, too right. Unfortunately I guess that in a case involving one man against the Govt and the NHS, they were always going to support the man - it’s kind of in their contract or something. The most I’ve ever seen since is the suggestion that they might have been wrong (about 6 months ago, maybe a bit less) but even that had the caveat that nothing conclusive had been discovered - indeed, for too long they followed the line that Wakefield was being pressurised from above. > > Still, the letters page still makes me laugh so I won’t cancel my subscription just yet… Wow. I did not know this. I think I read some kind of allusion of their support on Goldacre’s blog, but assumed at the time I was reading it wrongly. It’s funny because it might be one man vs the NHS but it’s also a powerful media vs the truth. ---
**Author:** ![catsix](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e19b73/32.png) [@catsix](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/catsix)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2009, 10:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mmr-all-a-lie-damn-you-dr-wakefield-mild/484920/91 "2009-02-12T22:36:30Z")
> [@](#): > > **MsRobyn** said: > Yeah, but TV is all about being exciting, and Jenny McCarthy is far more exciting than some scientist no one’s ever heard of. She’s also a mom, which makes Oprah’s audience relate to her. And the scientist would probably want to talk about, y’know, science, and that makes most middle Americans’ eyes glaze over. Amanda Peet would be the perfect counter to this. She’s a mom, guys think she’s hot, she’s in favor of vaccines, and she talks all about how she actually talked to a real doctor to find out the facts! ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Miskatonic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mr.miskatonic/32/310_2.png) [@Mr.Miskatonic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Miskatonic)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2009, 10:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mmr-all-a-lie-damn-you-dr-wakefield-mild/484920/92 "2009-02-12T22:42:28Z")
> [@catsix](#): > > Amanda Peet would be the perfect counter to this. > > She’s a mom, guys think she’s hot, she’s in favor of vaccines, and she talks all about how she actually talked to a real doctor to find out the facts! Then we could watch Jenny threaten Amanda with mob violence again, but live on Oprah! ---
**Author:** ![photopat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/e95f7d/32.png) [@photopat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/photopat)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2009, 10:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mmr-all-a-lie-damn-you-dr-wakefield-mild/484920/93 "2009-02-12T22:53:38Z")
> [@](#): > > …Wakefield was being pressurised from above. _I’d_ pay to see that. ---
**Author:** ![dropzone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dropzone/32/7515_2.png) [@dropzone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dropzone)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2009, 10:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mmr-all-a-lie-damn-you-dr-wakefield-mild/484920/94 "2009-02-12T22:58:43Z")
Mob violence? What’s the matter with her, scared to go one-on-one with Peet? In a tub full of Jello? ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Miskatonic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mr.miskatonic/32/310_2.png) [@Mr.Miskatonic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Miskatonic)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2009, 11:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mmr-all-a-lie-damn-you-dr-wakefield-mild/484920/95 "2009-02-12T23:12:30Z")
> [@dropzone](#): > > Mob violence? What’s the matter with her, scared to go one-on-one with Peet? In a tub full of Jello? Facts burn her like a cross burns a vampire\* is my guess. She has to send in troops. \*\* Buffyverse rules in effect. ---
**Author:** ![MissGypsy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/8491ac/32.png) [@MissGypsy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MissGypsy)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2009, 2:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mmr-all-a-lie-damn-you-dr-wakefield-mild/484920/96 "2009-02-13T02:33:54Z")
> [@SpazCat](#): > > I’m hoping that now that the “link” between the MMR vax and autism has been disproved researchers can start looking into the _real_ causes of autism. But then I’ve always been trying to see around the stars in my eyes. I hope for that, also. My oldest son didn’t have the MMR until he was almost 5, yet he was diagnosed with autism a year before that. Go figure. He showed symptoms of autism from the time he was 2, but stupid first-time-mom that I was, I didn’t recognize them. ---
**Author:** ![Kevbo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/e47774/32.png) [@Kevbo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kevbo)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2009, 8:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mmr-all-a-lie-damn-you-dr-wakefield-mild/484920/97 "2009-02-15T20:24:03Z")
> [@MissGypsy](#): > > I hope for that, also. My oldest son didn’t have the MMR until he was almost 5, yet he was diagnosed with autism a year before that. Go figure. He showed symptoms of autism from the time he was 2, but stupid first-time-mom that I was, I didn’t recognize them. I really wish you and the couple I know with a low functioning(\*) autistic boy got the same attention as the anti-vaxers. In many cases the anti-vaxers get a “can’t really blame them, because they have a messed up kid” pass when it comes to believing this piffle. Having an autistic kid doesn’t make people’s brains fall out, but it does tend to really motivate the nut bags. \*His dad’s greatest hope is that he can be potty trained by the time he is 18. ---
**Author:** ![Moirai](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/96bed5/32.png) [@Moirai](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Moirai)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2009, 8:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mmr-all-a-lie-damn-you-dr-wakefield-mild/484920/98 "2009-02-15T20:41:34Z")
> [@Kevbo](#): > > Having an autistic kid doesn’t make people’s brains fall out… Actually, it does, kind of. You don’t know abject fear until your child is diagnosed with something scary and potential future-stealing. You are angry, depressed, hopeful and yet hopeless, helpless, desperate and anguished. Sometimes all in the same morning. It is too easy to grasp at anything that might help “explain” why this thing has happened to your family. Plenty of desperate parents will believe anything, regardless of any basis in reality. Luckily, I was never interested in “why”- I was focused (as best I could be) on “how the fuck do we change the course of this train wreck?” We also have scientists, behavioral geneticists and psychologists in this family, and they worked their collective asses off to provide us with sound advice and options. Few, if any, other families are so lucky. ---
**Author:** ![ralph124c](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/8797f3/32.png) [@ralph124c](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ralph124c)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2009, 2:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mmr-all-a-lie-damn-you-dr-wakefield-mild/484920/99 "2009-02-16T14:29:20Z")
Has Robert kennedy (environmental “activist”, lawyer, and anti-thimerosol fraudster) recanted? Somebody ought to sue him (and “ROLLONG STONE” magazine) for fraud. ---
**Author:** ![Zoot\_Sutra](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/51bf81/32.png) [@Zoot\_Sutra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zoot_Sutra)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2009, 7:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mmr-all-a-lie-damn-you-dr-wakefield-mild/484920/100 "2009-02-16T19:04:21Z")
The most evil part of this sorry spectacle may be the fact that [Dr. Wakefield was also trying to promote his own, “safer” vaccine as an alternative to the current MMR treatments.](http://briandeer.com/wakefield/vaccine-patent.htm) If you think you can build a better mousetrap, great, but that doesn’t mean you can lobby to have all cats put to sleep. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mmr-all-a-lie-damn-you-dr-wakefield-mild/484920.md?page=4)