It’s worse than that. I haven’t seen this in the news yet over here. I scanned the Denver Post this morning - didn’t see a mention. I did a search over on CNN - no mention. No mention on any major news site that I could find, other than the London Times and The Huffington Post.
So, the media over here hasn’t even started reporting this new “sensational” story, which means many people won’t hear of it.
Although there’s already a discussion thread over on the Mothering.com boards, in which they’re saying they don’t care, or that Wakefield’s the victim of a witch hunt, etc…
Huh - I was under the impression that Wakefield wasn’t so important a figure in the States, the scare there being less to do with the combined vaccine than with concerns over mercury-containing preservative. I could be entirely wrong, of course, but I thought he was only really associated with the American version of the scare via the stupid syllogism:
Wakefield has discovered a bad thing about vaccines.
I believe a bad thing about vaccines.
Therefore, I am right.
Of course, in general I agree; it would be nice to see them reporting it nonetheless. But I’ve lowered my expectations quite a lot in the last few years.
The funny thing (to the extent that anything about this is funny) is that the antivax cranks don’t seem to care what “bad thing” is as long as its bad. You can find web sites whose banners proclaim that all autism is caused by mercury in vaccines defending Wakefield who argued that a vaccine that never contained mercury causes autism - and the contradiction never seems to enter their minds. Antivaxxer have a “big tent” philosophy, apparently - contradictory theories about the badness of vaccines are all-ok
This assumes that sufficient stocks of single vaccines were available, that parents wouldn’t have been scared away from using those vaccines, and that it would only have taken three months to show that Wakefield’s results were inaccurate and (as is now being reported, allegedly fraudulent). Lots of assumptions there.
It took way longer than three months, as I recall, for Wakefield’s ties to (and payments from) the trial lawyers to be exposed, and for well-done research refuting his findings to get published. The question is whether Wakefield’s published conclusions in support of an autism-MMR link were so compelling that a major alteration in immunization policy needed to occur as a result. Based on the evidence, public health experts did not believe so, and have been vindicated.
What would have happened if vaccinations for millions of kids were either postponed or foregone entirely as a result of government giving credence to the scare? Arguably, the resurgence of measles and other infectious diseases in the U.K. would have been much worse, with many more injuries and deaths.
Usually, the anti-vaxxers (and other conspiracy nuts generally) are drawn in by a Cecil column or Staff Report; I mostly see them in the comments forums (fora?). If anyone wants to point and laugh, we currently have an anti-vaxxer over in the Gardasil thread in GD (this postand this one). Remember, be nice; he probably got that way from receiving MMR as a child.
I hate the anti-vax crowd with the heat of one thousand suns. Not only are they ignorant, foolish idiots, but they are endangering other children, not just their own. My nephew is immune-suppressed and cannot ever be vaccinated against certain diseases (those that involve live-virus vaccination, as opposed to killed-virus vaccines which are safe for him). We absolutely depend on herd immunity to keep him alive.
But even having their patron saint shown to be a non-scientist and a fucking liar and a greedy fuckwad, they won’t see reason. :mad: Hell, they take their medical cues from a stupid blond bimbo whose only really achievement so far was sucking her own nipple during a Playboy photo shoot. :rolleyes:
I have seen so many children die from unpreventable diseases that if I ever met Andrew Wakefield, the man who caused so many preventable diseases, I don’t think I could be held responsible for my actions. I want rabid badgers to gnaw on this man’s testicles. I want every person who meets him in the future to slap him firmly in the face. I want fire ants to invade his urethra. I want badgers and fire ants to invade his urethra while the parents of the children who caught the measles due to this asshole’s idiocy slap him in the face.
Well, to be fair, he hasn’t yet said (as far as I can see, i didn’t read all of his (her?) posts in full) that he thinks autism and vaccines are linked. He seems to be basing his stance on the “fact” that vaccines don’t provide adequate protection as compared to getting the virus and gaining natural immunity…cause we all know that the world would have been better off if we just let everyone get smallpox instead of vaccinating them.
It’s worse, in a way. “I don’t think vaccines directly cause any harm to anyone, but I still won’t use them, 'cause it’s better for people just to get sick.”
Does anyone know if Oprah ever did a show to present the pro-vaccination point of view? I remember that she had Jenny McCarthy on years ago. Like it or not, probably more people are convinced by Oprah than by a medical journal report.
I brought this very point up last night, frothing at the mouth that Oprah (who, as much as we might not like to admit, has a HUGE pulpit at her disposal) probably won’t even mention this. I said “is she going to bring Brian Deer and Jenny McCarthy on and let them duke it out? OF COURSE NOT.”
After the SO peeled me off the ceiling, he suggested I contact Oprah and demand that she discuss these new revelations on her show. I’m seriously thinking about doing that. Thoughts?
Wakefield should be made to atone for his actions that have undoubtedly resulted in great harm to society - let’s use him as a human test subject for future vaccines!
I need to tell my brother about this, he’s kinda conspiracy prone and he heard about Wakefield’s “research” on TV and believed it. He’s really stubborn though so it’s gonna take me a heated argument just to get him to accept that Wakefield really is a phony and it’s not just a smear campaign against him.
May I please request some links to some good sites specializing in thoroughly debunking the vaccine-autism claims?
I’ve got the links to Ben Goldacre’s site and the Times article, but I’m looking for something a little more exhaustive. When I search with Google for “debunking vaccine MMR autism”, I get loads of hits, but they’re mostly individual articles from newspapers and other sites which cover a wide variety of issues rather than sites concentrating solely on critiquing the anti-vaxxer’s autism arguments.
Also, I’m trying to find any reference to a careful scientific survey conducted somewhere in Scandinavia (IIRC) that demonstrated that there was no statistically significant difference in autism rates between children who had been vaccinated and those who never were. I can’t think of a more devastating case against the alleged vaccine-autism link than that!
Thanks.
OK look, you guys with the torture are starting to get a little disturbing. If you really feel that way (and I couldn’t disagree) then let’s just kick the fucker off a cliff and be done with it.
To the Oprah fans, why not send her an email? From what I’ve heard she’s got the nads to do an expose. And it would be a huge contraversial ratings-getter which is what she’s really all about anyway. Can’t hurt, might help.
I found this. The link leads to a summary of a Danish study involving over 500.000 children. There’s also a Finnish study of 1.8 million vaccinees, where they found 173 serious side effects, none related to autism. I haven’t found it yet, though. Also, do a search for Christopher Gillberg, a Swedish child psychiatrist who’s examined the prevalence of autism before and after the MMR-vaccine was implemented in Sweden.
Capitulating on this issue, saying “even though the MMR vaccine has been tested and vindicated on every level, we’re going to fold and instead let people decide to go with a far less tested, more expensive system that is less likely to be followed as it involves multiple trip to the doctors”, that would have been absolutely the wrong way to handle it.
As for Wakefield, well if I was in his position then I would have to wake up every morning with the knowledge that I was a child murderer. Perhaps his take is different. Either way, he’s a cunt.
The other party that I’m annoyed at here is Private Eye, who not only supported this idiot, but have still to apologise for doing so and admit they were wrong. I usually hold the Eye in great esteem, so this really is very surprising to me.
