# Mod Miller, the Pit, warnings, and trolling **URL:** \ **Category:** About This Message Board\ **Created:** [December 23, 2016, 9:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mod-miller-the-pit-warnings-and-trolling/775480 "2016-12-23T21:20:50Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Ramira](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ramira/32/344_2.png) [@Ramira](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ramira)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2016, 11:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mod-miller-the-pit-warnings-and-trolling/775480/21 "2016-12-23T23:32:48Z")
> [@raventhief](#): > > Wow. Really? That really is your reasoning? It is impressive in a way… ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2016, 11:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mod-miller-the-pit-warnings-and-trolling/775480/22 "2016-12-23T23:47:15Z")
> [@Trinopus](#): > > On a slightly different note, there were questions there about whether trolling was banned by SDMB rules. I have been under the impression that it was permitted (if not admired) in the Pit, although nowhere else. Is this correct? > > (I could cite several instances of a Moderator accusing Pit posters of trolling…without doing so in the context of moderation, only as another poster.) What I last remember being told is that the criteria for trolling is harder to reach in the Pit. Posting to get a rise out of someone isn’t enough–it has to be obviously disingenuous. The one person I specifically remember being banned after trolling in the Pit was constantly jumping into the Mini-rants thread to badger everyone in it. As for the accusations, my understanding is that this is a distinction between “troll” as in the rules and “troll” as a general concept. Though I do remember that one poster who a mod often called a troll was subsequently banned. (I don’t remember if it was for actions in the Pit, though.) So it’s possible they’re on the “possible troll” list. ---
**Author:** ![bucketybuck](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/898d66/32.png) [@bucketybuck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bucketybuck)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2016, 11:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mod-miller-the-pit-warnings-and-trolling/775480/23 "2016-12-23T23:47:56Z")
> [@doorhinge](#): > > So what’s all this about? Post shortened. > [@](#): > > I definately shortened posts Post shortened. > [@](#): > > The posts in question were clearly intended to be insulting. The entire posts were one long insult. Many of the posts in that thread were to deliberately annoy someone. Post shortened. > [@](#): > > It’s the Pit, people. If you’re not posting here to deliberately annoy someone, you’re doing it wrong. Post shortened. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2016, 11:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mod-miller-the-pit-warnings-and-trolling/775480/24 "2016-12-23T23:50:04Z")
I don’t know that there’s anything I can add on the subject of altering quotes. You edited the posts so it looked like **Budget Cadet Player** was insulting himself. Editing a quote to change the meaning like that, even as a joke or when labelled as such, is against the rules. That’s not a new or obscure rule, and you’ve been around long enough to know it. If this is something you’ve been doing for “years,” you should have a lot more warnings than you do right now, so consider yourself lucky in that regard. As for the question trolling in the Pit. Here’s the board rule about trolling: > [@](#): > > No trolling > > By trolling, we mean posting of inflammatory comments solely to get a rise out of people. If we feel your primary goal as a poster is to make people mad, you’ll quickly find yourself on the road to banning. On the flip side, the fact that a poster consistently makes you mad doesn’t automatically make them a troll. Pretty straightforward for most of the board. In the Pit, though? The Pit was created specifically so that posters could have a place to go to get in fights with each other. The basic function of the forum necessitates a looser enforcement of the rule against trolling, else every third post in there would be drawing a warning. That’s not the same as saying that trolling is “allowed.” It’s just that it’s a higher bar to clear. If you’re misrepresenting yourself in someway, for example, then you can still be banned for trolling. One poster was banned for claiming (in a Pit thread, I’m pretty sure) that his parents had died at the WTC, but someone turned up an older (but still post-9/11) thread where he’d talked about them being alive. We’ve had the occasional poster take, say, a hard-line anti-gay stance for three or four pages, then turn around and say he didn’t really believe any of it, he just wanted to see how people react. That’s still trolling. But in the post in question, **Clothahump** ’s basically confessing to using the Pit for its intended purpose: he likes fighting with liberals, he perceives himself to be good at it, and so enjoys the idea that he makes many liberals upset. Enjoying the Pit, and being good at Pitting people, aren’t against the Pit rules. I’d like to add that I don’t think there’s a single regular conservative poster on this board who hasn’t had a Pit post reported as a “confession” of trolling. There’s a widespread inability among some Dopers to tell the difference between “being trolled” and “losing a fight.” ---
**Author:** ![watchwolf49](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/e9c0ed/32.png) [@watchwolf49](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/watchwolf49)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2016, 11:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mod-miller-the-pit-warnings-and-trolling/775480/25 "2016-12-23T23:50:46Z")
Would anyone like some whine with this delicious cheese? ---
**Author:** ![raventhief](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/raventhief/32/4_2.png) [@raventhief](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/raventhief)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2016, 12:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mod-miller-the-pit-warnings-and-trolling/775480/26 "2016-12-24T00:30:03Z")
> [@Morgenstern](#): > > We’ve beaten the quote horse beyond dead. Miller was spot on in interpreting the rule and applying it. > > What Ed says about this… > > \*Quoting: \*\*_do not alter words within quote tags beyond fair usage standards_ > \*\* > Do not change quotes of other posters or off-board citations beyond fair usage standards. If you delete material, use either ellipses or descriptive tags (e.g., \, [material deleted], etc.) to indicate you’ve done so. To add non-editorial explanatory material, use square brackets, which means things like [sic] or replacing a pronoun to make a partial quote clearer. If you add formatting for emphasis, please indicate you’ve done so, either in square brackets within the quote or immediately after the quote. _ **Quote tags are for actual quotes only - don’t use them to paraphrase another’s argument or make a joke.** _ \* > > ETA, that is from the Pit too. > [@doorhinge](#): > > “use either ellipses or descriptive tags to indicate you’ve done so.” > > (post shortened) seems to qualify as a descriptive tag. YMMV. \*Maybe \*this will help. I have bolded the relevant part that you violated, which is not the same relevant part you underlined previously. I re-underlined to reflect what you had posted before. The issue is not whether or not you marked it “post shortened” - it’s that you were altering things to change the meaning. ---
**Author:** ![erysichthon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/d07c76/32.png) [@erysichthon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/erysichthon)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2016, 12:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mod-miller-the-pit-warnings-and-trolling/775480/27 "2016-12-24T00:40:53Z")
> [@doorhinge](#): > > Eggs-actly. The quoted Pit posts were insulting when they were posted, and they were still insulting after I shortened them. > [@raventhief](#): > > Wow. Really? That really is your reasoning? I was making a joke when I [explained](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=19874154&postcount=9) **doorhinge** ’s tortured “logic” above. I’m surprised that he actually _agrees_ with my explanation. :smack: ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2016, 1:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mod-miller-the-pit-warnings-and-trolling/775480/28 "2016-12-24T01:05:23Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > But in the post in question, **Clothahump** ’s basically confessing to using the Pit for its intended purpose: he likes fighting with liberals, he perceives himself to be good at it, and so enjoys the idea that he makes many liberals upset. Enjoying the Pit, and being good at Pitting people, aren’t against the Pit rules. > > I’d like to add that I don’t think there’s a single regular conservative poster on this board who hasn’t had a Pit post reported as a “confession” of trolling. There’s a widespread inability among some Dopers to tell the difference between “being trolled” and “losing a fight.” That’s not my understanding of the intended purpose. The point isn’t to deliberately piss people off for fun, but as a place to go rant when someone is pissing you off so much that you just need to let it out. You know, the difference between a normal person getting angry and having a mental illness. Pissing people off for fun shows a distinct lack of empathy and suggests one of several personality disorders. It’s not normal to get pleasure out of hurting others. And I’ve never seen a fight in the Pit where the one with the conservative viewpoint wins. I know for sure that it’s not happening in that thread. ---
**Author:** ![raventhief](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/raventhief/32/4_2.png) [@raventhief](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/raventhief)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2016, 1:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mod-miller-the-pit-warnings-and-trolling/775480/29 "2016-12-24T01:07:14Z")
> [@erysichthon](#): > > I was making a joke when I [explained](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=19874154&postcount=9) **doorhinge** ’s tortured “logic” above. I’m surprised that he actually _agrees_ with my explanation. :smack: That’ll teach you. It almost seems like a weird version of Poe’s Law, doesn’t it? ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2016, 1:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mod-miller-the-pit-warnings-and-trolling/775480/30 "2016-12-24T01:17:00Z")
Note, my post is not in me in any way saying that anyone on this board has an actual mental disorder. And, even if I ever do assert such, I would like to make it clear that such is not an insult. I have a mental disorder, and I don’t consider people pointing that out as an insult. (I do think it’s sometimes irrelevant, and involves a misunderstanding of how it affects me, but that’s different.) I hate when I post something and then notice an alternate interpretation that is different from what I meant, and I can’t edit it in time. ---
**Author:** ![kayaker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kayaker/32/441_2.png) [@kayaker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kayaker)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2016, 2:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mod-miller-the-pit-warnings-and-trolling/775480/31 "2016-12-24T02:35:32Z")
(post shortened) ---
**Author:** ![doorhinge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a5b964/32.png) [@doorhinge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doorhinge)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2016, 2:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mod-miller-the-pit-warnings-and-trolling/775480/32 "2016-12-24T02:41:44Z")
> [@erysichthon](#): > > I was making a joke when I [explained](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=19874154&postcount=9) **doorhinge** ’s tortured “logic” above. I’m surprised that he actually _agrees_ with my explanation. :smack: I’ve stated my reason 3 or 4 times. I thought you were the first person that actually read them before replying. ---
**Author:** ![Drunky\_Smurf](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/drunky_smurf/32/449_2.png) [@Drunky\_Smurf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Drunky_Smurf)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2016, 3:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mod-miller-the-pit-warnings-and-trolling/775480/33 "2016-12-24T03:07:30Z")
Lemme see if I can make a good example of why shortenings posts in certain ways is not good. Poster ABC says: > [@](#): > > I like that news story about that guy who had sex with park benches. I quote that with this: > [@](#): > > I like…sex with park benches (post shortened) You really shouldn’t have sex with park benches. You might get splinters. ---
**Author:** ![raventhief](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/raventhief/32/4_2.png) [@raventhief](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/raventhief)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2016, 3:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mod-miller-the-pit-warnings-and-trolling/775480/34 "2016-12-24T03:11:09Z")
"I don’t love my husband because he’s handsome. I love him because he is a wonderful man." …Is that the same as “I don’t love my husband…I love my husband” \ or even worse " I don’t love my husband…" (post shortened) Are all three statements the same in meaning? ---
**Author:** ![raventhief](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/raventhief/32/4_2.png) [@raventhief](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/raventhief)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2016, 3:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mod-miller-the-pit-warnings-and-trolling/775480/35 "2016-12-24T03:12:16Z")
> [@doorhinge](#): > > I’ve stated my reason 3 or 4 times. I thought you were the first person that actually read them before replying. No, we all read your explanation. It’s just nonsensical. ---
**Author:** ![Jonathan\_Chance](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jonathan_chance/32/701_2.png) [@Jonathan\_Chance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jonathan_Chance)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2016, 3:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mod-miller-the-pit-warnings-and-trolling/775480/36 "2016-12-24T03:16:11Z")
Concur. Indicating that you shortened a post is not a freebie for making a post say what you want in opposition to what the original post said. Absolutely not. Feel free to maintain your interpretation. I predict you won’t enjoy the outcome, however. ---
**Author:** ![Chimera](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/8e8cbc/32.png) [@Chimera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chimera)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2016, 3:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mod-miller-the-pit-warnings-and-trolling/775480/37 "2016-12-24T03:19:25Z")
raventhief Johnson is right about Drunky Smurf Johnson being right about Miller Johnson being right to warn him. ---
**Author:** ![doorhinge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a5b964/32.png) [@doorhinge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doorhinge)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2016, 3:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mod-miller-the-pit-warnings-and-trolling/775480/38 "2016-12-24T03:26:02Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > I don’t know that there’s anything I can add on the subject of altering quotes. You edited the posts so it looked like **Budget Cadet Player** was insulting himself. Editing a quote to change the meaning like that, even as a joke or when labelled as such, is against the rules. That’s not a new or obscure rule, and you’ve been around long enough to know it. (post shortened) It appears that I was wrong, and you were right. Mea culpa. Thanks for taking the time to explain it as you did. And thanks to many of the poster who took the time to voice their opinions. I thought I understood the rule, but it’s now obvious that I misunderstood this one. I sit corrected. ☹ ---
**Author:** ![Clothahump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/51bf81/32.png) [@Clothahump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Clothahump)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2016, 3:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mod-miller-the-pit-warnings-and-trolling/775480/39 "2016-12-24T03:27:44Z")
> [@doorhinge](#): > > _For the record, if anyone else is thinking of reporting Clot’s post as “an admission of trolling,” this is precisely why you’re being ignored. It’s the Pit, people. If you’re not posting here to deliberately annoy someone, you’re doing it wrong._ FWIW, I was not admitting to trolling. I get accused of trolling because I post things that people don’t like because they can’t refute them. And I’ll gladly post stuff like that whenever I can. ---
**Author:** ![doorhinge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a5b964/32.png) [@doorhinge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doorhinge)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2016, 3:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mod-miller-the-pit-warnings-and-trolling/775480/40 "2016-12-24T03:30:04Z")
> [@Jonathan\_Chance](#): > > Concur. Indicating that you shortened a post is not a freebie for making a post say what you want in opposition to what the original post said. Absolutely not. > > Feel free to maintain your interpretation. I predict you won’t enjoy the outcome, however. People make mistakes. I’ve admitted to mine. I asked for clarification and received it. That’s what good communication is all about. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mod-miller-the-pit-warnings-and-trolling/775480.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mod-miller-the-pit-warnings-and-trolling/775480.md?page=3)