# Mod question about a not-warning in a thread **URL:** \ **Category:** About This Message Board\ **Created:** [February 8, 2022, 7:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mod-question-about-a-not-warning-in-a-thread/959121 "2022-02-08T19:17:23Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2022, 7:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mod-question-about-a-not-warning-in-a-thread/959121/1 "2022-02-08T19:17:23Z")
I was surprised to see this post from a Mod in the [Russia may be about to invade Ukraine](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-may-be-about-to-invade-ukraine/939699): > [@Russia may be about to invade Ukraine. {Russia has invaded as of Feb 24-2022}](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-may-be-about-to-invade-ukraine-russia-has-invaded-as-of-feb-24-2022/939699/376): > > Moderating: > > > [@Russia may be about to invade Ukraine. {Russia has invaded as of Feb 24-2022}](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-may-be-about-to-invade-ukraine-russia-has-invaded-as-of-feb-24-2022/939699/344): > > > > And while it’s true that Russian colonists have **infested** the eastern part of Ukraine (after, you know, getting rid of ethnic Ukrainians), the western half is made up of a majority ethnically Ukrainian peoples who aren’t all that fond of Russians, nor look back on their experience under the Russian boot with particular glad feelings and good thoughts. > > Bolding mine. Please refrain from using language that is racist and dehumanizing. ‘Infested’ is a term well associated with this doing that. > > Not a warning. Yes, the bolding was yours. I’m puzzled why you called this out. When did the word ‘infested’ become ‘language that is racist and dehumanizing’ and why, if you actually think that, was no warning given? I mean, if I’m being ‘racist and dehumanizing’ then that should rise to a warning and possible ban (not even possible…an absolute ban), and if not, then why imply I was being ‘racist and dehumanizing’ in the first place? I am totally stunned that my use of a word to describe the mass colonization of a region that was ethnically cleansed is ‘language that is racist and dehumanizing’. Is ‘infested’ one of the banned or forbidden words on the board, are we supposed to just know this (and where is the list of non-board PC terms currently kept), and why is a racist such as myself still allowed to post on this board after the fragrant use of such a vile term? I’m hoping the backchannel Mod discussion group is looking into this as I feel if a Mod is going to basically call me a racist that this needs to be resolved. ---
**Author:** ![EinsteinsHund](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/einsteinshund/32/8400_2.png) [@EinsteinsHund](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EinsteinsHund)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2022, 7:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mod-question-about-a-not-warning-in-a-thread/959121/2 "2022-02-08T19:30:28Z")
I honestly think that you’re not racist and had no racist intentions, but using the word “infested” for a group of people, you are basically equating them with vermin, which is never cool and has an old history in racist speech. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2022, 7:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mod-question-about-a-not-warning-in-a-thread/959121/3 "2022-02-08T19:30:56Z")
> [@XT](#): > > When did the word ‘infested’ become ‘language that is racist and dehumanizing’ and why, if you actually think that, was no warning given? You’re not clear on when talking about an ethnic group as if they were insects “became” racist and dehumanizing? Well, Merriam-Webster lists the first use of the word “infest” as occurring in 1602, so I’m guessing the start was sometime later that afternoon. ---
**Author:** ![Thudlow\_Boink](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thudlow_boink/32/320_2.png) [@Thudlow\_Boink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thudlow_Boink)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2022, 7:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mod-question-about-a-not-warning-in-a-thread/959121/4 "2022-02-08T19:46:07Z")
What @EinsteinsHund said. Referring to human beings as “infesting” someplace is dehumanizing, and may or may not be racist depending on the context. ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2022, 7:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mod-question-about-a-not-warning-in-a-thread/959121/5 "2022-02-08T19:47:41Z")
Interesting. I don’t see anything about race in here. Or dehumanizing. There is a part about it being about animals or insects, so perhaps you are saying ethnic Russians aren’t animals? Or, perhaps your definition from 1602 has some things that are left out of the modern definition? past tense: **infested** ; past participle: **infested** ; adjective: **-infested** 1. (of insects or animals) be present (in a place or site) in large numbers, typically so as to cause damage or disease. Please, educate me Miller, Sith Mod. If it’s got racism and dehumanization in it, feel free to post the definition, then give me your Mod ruling that this is the place we should be looking for to be SDMB compliant with PC terms today. ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2022, 7:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mod-question-about-a-not-warning-in-a-thread/959121/6 "2022-02-08T19:52:15Z")
Well, I can see that this is more widespread than I thought since it seems everyone responding to this thread feels the same way. I don’t see it as dehumanizing or racist, but I guess others really do see it that way. I will refrain from using the term in the future. ---
**Author:** ![mordecaiB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mordecaib/32/7725_2.png) [@mordecaiB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mordecaiB)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2022, 8:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mod-question-about-a-not-warning-in-a-thread/959121/7 "2022-02-08T20:09:26Z")
I’ll have to say I wouldn’t have blinked an eye if I had been reading that thread. I recall that it is used as an insult by Donald Trump, maybe that’s why. Seems he always used it to refer to minorities tho. ---
**Author:** ![Joey\_P](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/919ad9/32.png) [@Joey\_P](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Joey_P)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2022, 8:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mod-question-about-a-not-warning-in-a-thread/959121/8 "2022-02-08T20:13:29Z")
> [@XT](#): > > Please, educate me Miller, Sith Mod. If it’s got racism and dehumanization in it, feel free to post the definition, It’s not about the definition, it’s about the comparison. The definition of the word “ape” doesn’t say anything about it being racist, but walk into a movie theater in a predominately Black part of town and say it feels like you’re walking into “Planet of the Apes”, and you’re gonna be making public apologizes for it. Right or wrong, I’m not sure, but that’s what the problem is. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2022, 8:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mod-question-about-a-not-warning-in-a-thread/959121/9 "2022-02-08T20:14:39Z")
> [@XT](#): > > Interesting. I don’t see anything about race in here. Or dehumanizing. There is a part about it being about animals or insects, so perhaps you are saying ethnic Russians aren’t animals? Or, perhaps your definition from 1602 has some things that are left out of the modern definition? No, that sort of nuance is not usually included in dictionary definitions. You’d be better served by examining the history of how racist rhetoric throughout the ages regularly employs comparisons of disfavored racial and ethnic groups to vermin and parasites to understand why your post was inappropriate. Maybe start with googling the phrase “nits make lice” and exploring from there. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2022, 8:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mod-question-about-a-not-warning-in-a-thread/959121/10 "2022-02-08T20:15:09Z")
It’s right in your definition - the implication that they are pests, and the implication that they cause damage. ---
**Author:** ![EinsteinsHund](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/einsteinshund/32/8400_2.png) [@EinsteinsHund](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EinsteinsHund)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2022, 8:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mod-question-about-a-not-warning-in-a-thread/959121/11 "2022-02-08T20:22:00Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > Maybe start with googling the phrase “nits make lice” and exploring from there. Or the word “Volksschädlinge” (hard to translate literally, but Volk means people and Schädling vermin), which the nazis had used a long time before the actual holocaust, again and again to dehumanize Jews and other minorities. ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2022, 8:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mod-question-about-a-not-warning-in-a-thread/959121/12 "2022-02-08T20:29:22Z")
See, and looking at the definition I see An Animal be present in large numbers, typically so as to cause damage or disease. Nothing about pests. And in the context of what I was saying, the ethnic Russians (admittedly, at the behest of their wonderful communist government) ethnically cleansed the ethnic Ukrainians (through starvation and deportation) then essentially colonized the area with ethnic Russians. I definitely see dehumanization and racism, to be sure…I just don’t see it in the term I used. However, the overwhelming majority of you seem genuinely offended by the term, seem genuine in thinking it is dehumanizing and probably racist as well, so, again, I will endeavor to refrain from using it. ETA: I mean, now I seem to be being compared to Nazi, so it can’t get much lower than that… ---
**Author:** ![Riemann](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/riemann/32/3133_2.png) [@Riemann](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Riemann)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2022, 8:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mod-question-about-a-not-warning-in-a-thread/959121/13 "2022-02-08T20:36:20Z")
I don’t think you (or anyone) would dispute that saying something like “that part of the country is infested with Romani” would be extremely racist, with the implied comparison to vermin, exactly as stated by others here. Having said that, I can envision hypothetical scenarios where comparing specific abusive behaviors to an infestation of vermin might be reasonable. In some hypothetical world where Russia, for political reasons and from a position of power, was abusing that power by introducing state-sponsored Russian settlers to displace local ethnic groups, perhaps a comparison to an infestation of vermin would not be racist. It might be disparagement of a specific instance of abusive behavior by a more powerful group, not condemnation of Russians as a generalized (or marginalized) ethnic group. But - that hypothetical world does not remotely correspond to the reality of the Russian ethnic minority in Ukraine. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2022, 8:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mod-question-about-a-not-warning-in-a-thread/959121/14 "2022-02-08T20:42:59Z")
> [@XT](#): > > See, and looking at the definition I see An Animal be present in large numbers, typically so as to cause damage or disease. Nothing about pests. I’m guessing you don’t consider things which cause damage or disease to be welcome house guests. Honestly, I _didn’t_ think the term was offensive until I looked at the dictionary definition provided, and immediately saw that it would be. ---
**Author:** ![Max\_S](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/46a35a/32.png) [@Max\_S](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Max_S)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2022, 8:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mod-question-about-a-not-warning-in-a-thread/959121/15 "2022-02-08T20:45:35Z")
> [@XT](#): > > past tense: **infested** ; past participle: **infested** ; adjective: **-infested** > > 1. (of insects or animals) be present (in a place or site) in large numbers, typically so as to cause damage or disease. My dictionary [reads](https://ahdictionary.com/word/search.html?q=infest), > _tr.v._ **in·fest·ed** , **in·fest·ing** , **in·fests** > > **1.** To inhabit or overrun in numbers or quantities large enough to be harmful, threatening, or obnoxious: _rats infesting the sewers; streets that were infested with drugs._ > > **2.** To live as a parasite in or on: _livestock that were infested with tapeworms._ ~Max ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_Bravo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_bravo/32/493_2.png) [@Johnny\_Bravo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_Bravo)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2022, 8:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mod-question-about-a-not-warning-in-a-thread/959121/16 "2022-02-08T20:49:57Z")
> [@XT](#): > > However, the overwhelming majority of you seem genuinely offended by the term, seem genuine in thinking it is dehumanizing and probably racist as well, so, again, I will endeavor to refrain from using it. One aspect of privilege is never having to think about things like this, and so it can be jarring to suddenly learn that a term that may **seem** neutral is in fact loaded and damaging. Refraining from using the term in the future is a laudable first step. Further educating yourself to really grok the weight behind the term would be an excellent second one. ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2022, 8:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mod-question-about-a-not-warning-in-a-thread/959121/17 "2022-02-08T20:50:45Z")
> [@XT](#): > > See, and looking at the definition I see An Animal be present in large numbers, **typically so as to cause damage or disease.** The part I bolded is what a pest (in this sense) does. And the usual way to deal with an infestation is to kill the pests. Hence why using the term for humans is generally considered so bad. By using that term, you are implying we should exterminate the Russian minority in Ukraine. ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2022, 8:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mod-question-about-a-not-warning-in-a-thread/959121/18 "2022-02-08T20:54:03Z")
I’m splitting hairs, to be honest…the definition I gave doesn’t include ‘pests’. I did use the word to indicate a group who caused damage and disease and certainly weren’t house guests. In my own mind, I didn’t think it was either dehumanizing or racist…I thought what the Russians did was both, to be honest…especially since it was deliberately done by Stalin, a Ukrainian himself. I was a bit (well, more than a bit) taken aback by someone twisting that to be me being racist and dehumanizing, to be honest. I guess I can see why the use of the term might be so sensitive in certain contexts, such as this: > [@Riemann](#): > > I don’t think you (or anyone) would dispute that saying something like “that part of the country is infested with Romani” would be extremely racist, with the implied comparison to vermin, exactly as stated by others here. I agree, and had I used it that way I’d certainly be in for all the grief I seem to be getting in this thread. > [@Riemann](#): > > But - that hypothetical world does not remotely correspond to the reality of the Russian ethnic minority in Ukraine. I think the historical context of how the Russian ethnic minority came to be in the eastern parts of Ukraine does have some correspondence, but I’ll refrain, as I’ve said, from using such a loaded term in the future. I didn’t regard it as so loaded and wasn’t aware of things like Trump’s use of it or whatever else it’s been used for that has set so many off on this prior to this thread, so…lesson learned. ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2022, 8:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mod-question-about-a-not-warning-in-a-thread/959121/19 "2022-02-08T20:56:58Z")
> [@BigT](#): > > The part I bolded is what a pest (in this sense) does. And the usual way to deal with an infestation is to kill the pests. Hence why using the term for humans is generally considered so bad. By using that term, you are implying we should exterminate the Russian minority in Ukraine. Uh…what? I was implying no such thing, nor is it even something that as far as I know has ever been thought of. I mean, Russia is using such bullshit as an excuse for what they are doing right now, and for their annexation of the Crimea…kind of like how Germany did the same thing in Eastern Europe to take territory where there were ethnic Germans. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_Bravo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_bravo/32/493_2.png) [@Johnny\_Bravo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_Bravo)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2022, 8:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mod-question-about-a-not-warning-in-a-thread/959121/20 "2022-02-08T20:59:41Z")
> [@XT](#): > > I was a bit (well, more than a bit) taken aback by someone twisting that to be me being racist and dehumanizing, to be honest. I don’t think you were necessarily being actively racist and dehumanizing. I think you were thoughtlessly using language that’s been baked into our culture over many centuries of various overclasses actively dehumanizing various underclasses. That’s the whole point behind the idea of systemic racism. We’re all in the system and we all reinforce it, even when we don’t mean to. That’s why we call it out when we see others doing it (which people did) and that’s why we change our behavior when we’re called out on it (which you will do going forward). [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mod-question-about-a-not-warning-in-a-thread/959121.md?page=2)