# Mod ruling: an argument "retarded" since it isn't personal **URL:** \ **Category:** About This Message Board\ **Created:** [May 1, 2017, 12:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mod-ruling-an-argument-retarded-since-it-isnt-personal/785609 "2017-05-01T00:26:46Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 10\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2017, 4:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mod-ruling-an-argument-retarded-since-it-isnt-personal/785609/21 "2017-05-01T16:37:08Z")
> [@Exapno\_Mapcase](#): > > There’s a long history of mods accepting the transparent fiction of calling a post stupid to avoid calling a poster stupid, and also a long history of the mods not letting it slide. I can’t figure out any pattern except for what side of the bed the mod got out of that morning. > > This is a long standing sore point. Could all the mods push their beds up against a wall so they have to emerge from the same side every day? > [@Jonathan\_Chance](#): > > Wouldn’t help. We’ve have to sleep in the same bed for it to work. > > Thanks, but no. God knows where the other two have been. But sometimes it’s the same person. Tomndebb gave a moderator warning on this statement: > [@](#): > > I’ve never seen someone spew so much retarded campaign style platitude rhetoric on a message board. But according to the OP, tomndebb said this statement wasn’t a violation: > [@](#): > > That is one of the most retarded arguments ever presented by the anti-gun side of the debate. I don’t see a lot of daylight between those two statements. Both used the word retarded to describe a post. So why did one merit a warning and the other did not? ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2017, 5:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mod-ruling-an-argument-retarded-since-it-isnt-personal/785609/22 "2017-05-01T17:07:25Z")
The first one is more personal. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2017, 5:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mod-ruling-an-argument-retarded-since-it-isnt-personal/785609/23 "2017-05-01T17:39:45Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > I don’t see a lot of daylight between those two statements. Both used the word retarded to describe a post. So why did one merit a warning and the other did not? The daylight is in the parts you left off. Here’s the full quote and moderator note: [quote=] …I’ve never seen someone spew so much retarded campaign style platitude rhetoric on a message board. You realize this isn’t a forum for that sort of thing, at least not a very good one? You should be out on the streets with a megaphone where you belong. . . . Not joking so much as making fun of your childish, uninformed and totally naive and lacking understanding of the economy. [/quote] > [@tomndebb moderating](#): > > “Retarded”? “Childish”? Even without those specific adjectives, this is more an attack than a discussion. > Dial it back or take it to The BBQ Pit. ---
**Author:** ![Riemann](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/riemann/32/3133_2.png) [@Riemann](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Riemann)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2017, 5:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mod-ruling-an-argument-retarded-since-it-isnt-personal/785609/24 "2017-05-01T17:55:28Z")
> [@aldiboronti](#): > > And using it of a person would be a slur. But how do offend an argument? I’m with **BigT** on this. Do we make a distinction between “you are a liar” and “that statement is a lie”? Likewise, I don’t think there’s a meaningful distinction between “you are an idiot” and “that argument is idiotic”. If the latter is all that’s said, it simply means _that’s an argument that only an idiot would make_. It’s _ad hominem_ by transparent circumlocution. I think there’s a gray area if you say “that argument is idiotic…” but then go on with a substantial explanation of just _why_ you think the argument is idiotic, something that contributes to the debate. No doubt I’ve been guilty of that myself sometimes. But without that substance, the form of words should not matter. Content-free invective that’s nominally directed toward a statement is still just _ad hominem_. ---
**Author:** ![cochrane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cochrane/32/10441_2.png) [@cochrane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cochrane)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2017, 6:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mod-ruling-an-argument-retarded-since-it-isnt-personal/785609/25 "2017-05-01T18:13:32Z")
> [@Bone](#): > > I’m no fan of the word “retarded” being used in this way and while I may be personally bothered or even mildly offended, we’re not acting as editors here making sure everyone makes their most cogent arguments. > > All three of us (and I assume Gaudere too) saw the report, and all independently came to the same conclusion. No moderation was necessary. Obviously there may be times when similar usage would warrant action, depending on context. This was not one of those times. But would **Gaudere** take action on a post if it didn’t contain a spelling or grammatical error? 😃 ---
**Author:** ![DSYoungEsq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/c6cbf5/32.png) [@DSYoungEsq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSYoungEsq)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2017, 9:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mod-ruling-an-argument-retarded-since-it-isnt-personal/785609/26 "2017-05-01T21:46:16Z")
> [@Riemann](#): > > I’m with **BigT** on this. Do we make a distinction between “you are a liar” and “that statement is a lie”? > > Likewise, I don’t think there’s a meaningful distinction between “you are an idiot” and “that argument is idiotic”. If the latter is all that’s said, it simply means _that’s an argument that only an idiot would make_. It’s _ad hominem_ by transparent circumlocution. > > I think there’s a gray area if you say “that argument is idiotic…” but then go on with a substantial explanation of just _why_ you think the argument is idiotic, something that contributes to the debate. No doubt I’ve been guilty of that myself sometimes. But without that substance, the form of words should not matter. Content-free invective that’s nominally directed toward a statement is still just _ad hominem_. No. I disagree. “Idiotic” does not mean “something made/done by an idiot.” Per Merriam-Webster, it can mean “showing complete lack of thought or common sense.” Princess Google’s definition is “very stupid.” Google goes on to give the example: “I was able to hum its idiotic theme tune.” So in making an idiotic argument, one is not necessarily being an idiot. But one _is_ making an argument that lacks thought or common sense. Amazingly, even non-idiots do that from time to time. Myself included. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2017, 9:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mod-ruling-an-argument-retarded-since-it-isnt-personal/785609/27 "2017-05-01T21:51:40Z")
Let he among you who is without idiocy cast the first insult. **Riemann** : IIRC, we (or TPTB) decided a few years ago that even if there is little difference between insulting the post and insulting the poster, we will maintain the fiction that there is rather than forbid people from attacking the post, or allowing them to attack the poster. It’s a slippery slope, and we put a stop in it to prevent further sliding. ---
**Author:** ![bobot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bobot/32/21622_2.png) [@bobot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bobot)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2017, 9:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mod-ruling-an-argument-retarded-since-it-isnt-personal/785609/28 "2017-05-01T21:58:27Z")
> [@QuickSilver](#): > > While we’re on the subject of retarded arguments, I’m wondering why [this particular topic](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=825109) remains in GD… ? Maybe you could PM a Mod and then publicly post the contents of the PM. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2017, 2:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mod-ruling-an-argument-retarded-since-it-isnt-personal/785609/29 "2017-05-02T02:17:46Z")
> [@QuickSilver](#): > > While we’re on the subject of retarded arguments, I’m wondering why [this particular topic](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=825109) remains in GD… ? It takes 200 posts to figure out it’s not GD. ---
**Author:** ![Fenris](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fenris/32/498_2.png) [@Fenris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fenris)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2017, 7:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mod-ruling-an-argument-retarded-since-it-isnt-personal/785609/30 "2017-05-02T19:36:33Z")
> [@Riemann](#): > > Likewise, I don’t think there’s a meaningful distinction between “you are an idiot” and “that argument is idiotic”. If the latter is all that’s said, it simply means _that’s an argument that only an idiot would make_. It’s _ad hominem_ by transparent circumlocution. You are correct that there’s no actual distinction between the two phrases, but it’s the line that’s been drawn as long as I’ve been here and has the advantage of being relatively bright-line and consistent\* \*It’s a stupid distiction, but the line has to be drawn somewhere and it’s better than “I know it when I see it” [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mod-ruling-an-argument-retarded-since-it-isnt-personal/785609.md?page=1)