# Moderation approves personal harassment by silence **URL:** \ **Category:** About This Message Board\ **Created:** [June 11, 2018, 1:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/moderation-approves-personal-harassment-by-silence/815870 "2018-06-11T13:49:28Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 13
**Author:** ![Ed\_Zotti](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/fbc32d/32.png) [@Ed\_Zotti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ed_Zotti)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2018, 8:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/moderation-approves-personal-harassment-by-silence/815870/242 "2018-06-12T20:25:01Z")
“Don’t be a jerk” is the guiding principle behind our rules. It’s not, in itself, an enforceable rule. Everyone has a different notion of what constitutes jerkishness. To avoid endless arguments, we’ve tried to come up with bright line rules that are clear to all. The rule invoked by Chimera was the one against harassment. To repeat, we find no evidence he was being harassed as we understand the term. The posts reported by Chimera were mostly dismissive remarks. No doubt he didn’t like being addressed in such terms; they weren’t harassment by any stretch. ---
**Author:** ![octopus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/octopus/32/3716_2.png) [@octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/octopus)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2018, 8:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/moderation-approves-personal-harassment-by-silence/815870/243 "2018-06-12T20:30:05Z")
> [@Measure\_for\_Measure](#): > > I’d characterize this dick move as a, “Below the belt attack.” Most aggressors instinctively avoid this, but a few do not. For those who do not, the rest of us have to figure out a way of dealing with them. > > Not speaking for the mods, but to LHoD I’d note that this board prefers semi-objective criteria over subjective application of the jerk rule. Subjective application is always an option. But they don’t like to do that. > > Skilled line dancers can game the system. In practice they get caught after long periods of time if they cause sufficient reason for perpetual mod attention. If the goal of the Pit is to make posters feel bad about themselves via insults “creative” or otherwise and using whatever material you can scrounge about the target why would those drawn to such a venue exercise restraint outside of meta concerns? Anyways, I think Ed has provided an amount of clarity regarding harassment at least. I hate seeing people driven off by the Pit though. ---
**Author:** ![Skywatcher](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skywatcher/32/254_2.png) [@Skywatcher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skywatcher)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2018, 8:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/moderation-approves-personal-harassment-by-silence/815870/244 "2018-06-12T20:30:33Z")
> [@Ed\_Zotti](#): > > “Don’t be a jerk” is the guiding principle behind our rules. It’s not, in itself, an enforceable rule. Everyone has a different notion of what constitutes jerkishness. To avoid endless arguments, we’ve tried to come up with bright line rules that are clear to all. The rule invoked by Chimera was the one against harassment. To repeat, we find no evidence he was being harassed as we understand the term. The posts reported by Chimera were mostly dismissive remarks. No doubt he didn’t like being addressed in such terms; they weren’t harassment by any stretch. What about [basically threatening to troll him if he returns](https://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=21014988&postcount=32)? ---
**Author:** ![hajario](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hajario/32/171_2.png) [@hajario](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hajario)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2018, 8:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/moderation-approves-personal-harassment-by-silence/815870/245 "2018-06-12T20:32:38Z")
Great job, Ed and Moderators. It must have been quite a good painful slog to go through all of that history. I think that you made the right call. ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2018, 8:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/moderation-approves-personal-harassment-by-silence/815870/246 "2018-06-12T20:55:51Z")
I disagree - I think Morgenstern clearly indicated that he was planning to harass Chimera in the future, if not “stalking” then by “lying in ambush” and I do see that as evidence of harassment and targeting of a poster. I find it even more disturbing because Chimera is not the first poster so targeted by Morgenstern, who has been very clever at keeping just this little bit within the rules so as to avoid sanctions while getting away with being a jerkwad bully. … but if the mods have spoken they’ve spoken. It’s their decision not mine. But I doubt I’m the only one who sees it as a tolerance of bullying and harassment on this forum and that, too, will drive both current and potential posters away, just as tolerance of sexism or racism or ageism or religious intolerance would. ---
**Author:** ![octopus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/octopus/32/3716_2.png) [@octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/octopus)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2018, 9:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/moderation-approves-personal-harassment-by-silence/815870/247 "2018-06-12T21:03:22Z")
Broomstick articulates the problem perfectly. I also don’t see the productiveness of labeling posters who want less organized harassment as “snitches.” That’s a pretty contemptuous label. ---
**Author:** ![Ed\_Zotti](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/fbc32d/32.png) [@Ed\_Zotti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ed_Zotti)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2018, 9:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/moderation-approves-personal-harassment-by-silence/815870/248 "2018-06-12T21:06:58Z")
> [@Skywatcher](#): > > What about [basically threatening to troll him if he returns](https://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=21014988&postcount=32)? The term “trolling” is used too loosely. As defined in our rules, it means purposely inflammatory remarks. A true troll is trying to get the whole board riled up about something he doesn’t really care about. Getting under somebody’s skin is a mild version of this - the kind of annoying little brothers do. Childish? Sure, and if you did it enough we might tell you to knock it off. But merely threatening to be annoying? Come now. ---
**Author:** ![Ed\_Zotti](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/fbc32d/32.png) [@Ed\_Zotti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ed_Zotti)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2018, 9:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/moderation-approves-personal-harassment-by-silence/815870/249 "2018-06-12T21:13:32Z")
> [@Broomstick](#): > > I disagree - I think Morgenstern clearly indicated that he was planning to harass Chimera in the future, if not “stalking” then by “lying in ambush” and I do see that as evidence of harassment and targeting of a poster. I find it even more disturbing because Chimera is not the first poster so targeted by Morgenstern, who has been very clever at keeping just this little bit within the rules so as to avoid sanctions while getting away with being a jerkwad bully. > > … but if the mods have spoken they’ve spoken. It’s their decision not mine. > > But I doubt I’m the only one who sees it as a tolerance of bullying and harassment on this forum and that, too, will drive both current and potential posters away, just as tolerance of sexism or racism or ageism or religious intolerance would. If you seen evidence of future harassment by Morgenstern or anyone else, please report it. What we’ve seen so far wasn’t actionable in our opinion. If we see a pattern we might think differently. ---
**Author:** ![Crazy\_Canuck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crazy_canuck/32/5282_2.png) [@Crazy\_Canuck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crazy_Canuck)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2018, 9:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/moderation-approves-personal-harassment-by-silence/815870/250 "2018-06-12T21:14:46Z")
> [@Ed\_Zotti](#): > > The term “trolling” is used too loosely. As defined in our rules, it means **purposely** inflammatory remarks. (Bolding mine) That seems to conflict with the following statement that I have seen quoted on multiple occasions. Could you please clarify this? > [@What is trolling?](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-trolling/544298/4): > > Bolding mine. Trolling does not necessarily require that the position taken must be insincere. The principle requirement is that the post is for the principle intention of making people angry or upset. > > Nor does the admission of trolling absolve the troller of the charge. ---
**Author:** ![Telemark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/telemark/32/372_2.png) [@Telemark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Telemark)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2018, 9:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/moderation-approves-personal-harassment-by-silence/815870/251 "2018-06-12T21:15:26Z")
> [@Ed\_Zotti](#): > > Getting under somebody’s skin is a mild version of this - the kind of annoying little brothers do. Childish? Sure, and if you did it enough we might tell you to knock it off. But merely threatening to be annoying? Come now. When you get under someone’s skin about a fresh divorce, then it’s not childish. It’s being a jerk. If the mods have spoken then they’ve spoken. But there have been a number of posters on the site recently who are pushing the general tone of the SDMB to something I want to read less and less. ---
**Author:** ![bucketybuck](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/898d66/32.png) [@bucketybuck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bucketybuck)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2018, 9:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/moderation-approves-personal-harassment-by-silence/815870/252 "2018-06-12T21:18:06Z")
> [@Ed\_Zotti](#): > > “Don’t be a jerk” is the guiding principle behind our rules. It’s not, in itself, an enforceable rule. Everyone has a different notion of what constitutes jerkishness. To avoid endless arguments, we’ve tried to come up with bright line rules that are clear to all. The rule invoked by Chimera was the one against harassment. To repeat, we find no evidence he was being harassed as we understand the term. > [@Ed\_Zotti](#): > > The term “trolling” is used too loosely. As defined in our rules, it means purposely inflammatory remarks. A true troll is trying to get the whole board riled up about something he doesn’t really care about. Getting under somebody’s skin is a mild version of this - the kind of annoying little brothers do. Childish? Sure, and if you did it enough we might tell you to knock it off. But merely threatening to be annoying? Come now. No wonder this place is a trolls wet dream and a breeding ground for the rules lawyers. “Don’t be a jerk” is not actually a rule, and action will only be taken if there is clear and objective violation? So the gang can all wander in together and harass, thats ok, but the target can’t tell them to fuck off, thats bad. Sounds about right. ---
**Author:** ![madsircool](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/madsircool/32/3432_2.png) [@madsircool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/madsircool)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2018, 9:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/moderation-approves-personal-harassment-by-silence/815870/253 "2018-06-12T21:20:39Z")
> [@Ed\_Zotti](#): > > The term “trolling” is used too loosely. As defined in our rules, it means purposely inflammatory remarks. A true troll is trying to get the whole board riled up about something he doesn’t really care about. Getting under somebody’s skin is a mild version of this - the kind of annoying little brothers do. Childish? Sure, and if you did it enough we might tell you to knock it off. But merely threatening to be annoying? Come now. Ed, please read through Morgersterns California Succesion thread in Elections for the sort of trolling you describe. [https://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?p=19772014](https://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?p=19772014) ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2018, 9:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/moderation-approves-personal-harassment-by-silence/815870/254 "2018-06-12T21:22:58Z")
> [@Crazy\_Canuck](#): > > (Bolding mine) > > That seems to conflict with the following statement that I have seen quoted on multiple occasions. Could you please clarify this? Ed’s comment says exactly the same as mine does. ---
**Author:** ![Bone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bone/32/407_2.png) [@Bone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bone)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2018, 9:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/moderation-approves-personal-harassment-by-silence/815870/255 "2018-06-12T21:29:51Z")
The difference between dickish and being a jerk is if a person acts like a dick then we could go to the Pit denigrate them. Being a jerk will earn warnings and possibly banning. ---
**Author:** ![Ed\_Zotti](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/fbc32d/32.png) [@Ed\_Zotti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ed_Zotti)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2018, 9:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/moderation-approves-personal-harassment-by-silence/815870/256 "2018-06-12T21:31:16Z")
> [@madsircool](#): > > Ed, please read through Morgersterns California Succesion thread in Elections for the sort of trolling you describe. > > [https://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?p=19772014](https://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?p=19772014) I’ve looked in Elections and see threads about California but nothing with this title. Do me a favor, go through the thread, and report any posts you find objectionable. If there’s a pattern of behavior, that puts things in a different light. ---
**Author:** ![madsircool](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/madsircool/32/3432_2.png) [@madsircool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/madsircool)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2018, 9:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/moderation-approves-personal-harassment-by-silence/815870/257 "2018-06-12T21:33:46Z")
> [@Ed\_Zotti](#): > > I’ve looked in Elections and see threads about California but nothing with this title. Do me a favor, go through the thread, and report any posts you find objectionable. If there’s a pattern of behavior, that puts things in a different light. Will do. ---
**Author:** ![Ed\_Zotti](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/fbc32d/32.png) [@Ed\_Zotti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ed_Zotti)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2018, 9:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/moderation-approves-personal-harassment-by-silence/815870/258 "2018-06-12T21:38:06Z")
> [@bucketybuck](#): > > No wonder this place is a trolls wet dream and a breeding ground for the rules lawyers. > > “Don’t be a jerk” is not actually a rule, and action will only be taken if there is clear and objective violation? So the gang can all wander in together and harass, thats ok, but the target can’t tell them to fuck off, thats bad. Sounds about right. Please. We have banned literally thousands of people over the years. This place is far from a troll’s wet dream. If you think requiring a “clear and objective violation” is too burdensome a standard, all I can tell you is that’s how we do it around here. ---
**Author:** ![Ed\_Zotti](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/fbc32d/32.png) [@Ed\_Zotti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ed_Zotti)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2018, 9:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/moderation-approves-personal-harassment-by-silence/815870/259 "2018-06-12T21:40:51Z")
> [@Ed\_Zotti](#): > > I’ve looked in Elections and see threads about California but nothing with this title. Do me a favor, go through the thread, and report any posts you find objectionable. If there’s a pattern of behavior, that puts things in a different light. I’m sorry, I somehow overlooked this link. You think this is trolling? I see sarcasm here - trolling, no. Please explain your reasoning. Perhaps there’s something I’m not seeing. ---
**Author:** ![Morgenstern](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Morgenstern](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Morgenstern)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2018, 9:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/moderation-approves-personal-harassment-by-silence/815870/260 "2018-06-12T21:44:48Z")
> [@Ed\_Zotti](#): > > I’m sorry, I somehow overlooked this link. You think this is trolling? I see sarcasm here - trolling, no. Please explain your reasoning. Perhaps there’s something I’m not seeing. Yes Ed, you are not seeing his agenda. Thanks for your time though, I’m sure you had better things to do today. ---
**Author:** ![octopus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/octopus/32/3716_2.png) [@octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/octopus)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2018, 9:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/moderation-approves-personal-harassment-by-silence/815870/261 "2018-06-12T21:45:42Z")
> [@Ed\_Zotti](#): > > “Don’t be a jerk” is the guiding principle behind our rules. It’s not, in itself, an enforceable rule. Everyone has a different notion of what constitutes jerkishness. To avoid endless arguments, we’ve tried to come up with bright line rules that are clear to all. The rule invoked by Chimera was the one against harassment. To repeat, we find no evidence he was being harassed as we understand the term. The posts reported by Chimera were mostly dismissive remarks. No doubt he didn’t like being addressed in such terms; they weren’t harassment by any stretch. > [@Bone](#): > > The difference between dickish and being a jerk is if a person acts like a dick then we could go to the Pit denigrate them. Being a jerk will earn warnings and possibly banning. These posts are a direct contradiction of each other. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/moderation-approves-personal-harassment-by-silence/815870.md?page=12) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/moderation-approves-personal-harassment-by-silence/815870.md?page=14)