# Moderation approves personal harassment by silence **URL:** \ **Category:** About This Message Board\ **Created:** [June 11, 2018, 1:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/moderation-approves-personal-harassment-by-silence/815870 "2018-06-11T13:49:28Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![Morgenstern](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Morgenstern](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Morgenstern)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2018, 8:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/moderation-approves-personal-harassment-by-silence/815870/102 "2018-06-11T20:20:32Z")
> [@Scumpup](#): > > I’m suggesting a pattern of shit-talking over thousands of posts over a period of years does not put any of the “snarkers” in a position to claim the moral high ground. Pointing and laughing, like in the pit? ---
**Author:** ![Scumpup](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ce73a5/32.png) [@Scumpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scumpup)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2018, 8:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/moderation-approves-personal-harassment-by-silence/815870/103 "2018-06-11T20:25:12Z")
> [@Morgenstern](#): > > Pointing and laughing, like in the pit? > [@](#): > > Don’t ask me silly questions > I won’t play silly games > I’m just a simple choo choo train > And I’ll always be the same. > > I only want to race along > Beneath the bright blue sky > And be a happy choo choo train > Until the day I die. Charlie was a steamie, you know. ---
**Author:** ![Whiskey\_Dickens](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/9fc348/32.png) [@Whiskey\_Dickens](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whiskey_Dickens)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2018, 8:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/moderation-approves-personal-harassment-by-silence/815870/104 "2018-06-11T20:25:14Z")
> [@Whiskey\_Dickens](#): > > Yep, I did some gross stuff while I was there. Encouraged by the general environment of the board, but still definitely gross. Good riddance to the whole thing. I just want to add that this post sounds flippant, but I am honestly bothered by things I posted and went along with. It’s like when you’re a teen and having fun with this new group of friends who do wild things, but it turns out that they actually don’t give a crap about you and you realize you just broke the local convenience store’s window hoping to impress a bunch of dicks. ---
**Author:** ![madsircool](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/madsircool/32/3432_2.png) [@madsircool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/madsircool)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2018, 8:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/moderation-approves-personal-harassment-by-silence/815870/105 "2018-06-11T20:33:13Z")
> [@Morgenstern](#): > > Pointing and laughing, like in the pit? People who point and laugh have serious self esteem issues. And they lack empathy. ---
**Author:** ![expectopatronum](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/expectopatronum/32/173_2.png) [@expectopatronum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/expectopatronum)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2018, 8:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/moderation-approves-personal-harassment-by-silence/815870/106 "2018-06-11T20:34:47Z")
But you were the one being a dick in that case. Everyone else was telling you you were out of line. You did what you did of your own volition, and now you’re trying to push the blame off of yourself. Take some ownership. on preview: this was in response to Whiskey Dickens. ---
**Author:** ![raventhief](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/raventhief/32/4_2.png) [@raventhief](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/raventhief)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2018, 8:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/moderation-approves-personal-harassment-by-silence/815870/107 "2018-06-11T20:34:49Z")
> [@expectopatronum](#): > > I did a little searching because your anecdote screamed “more to the story” and sure enough, you left out the detail that you were encouraging snarking on a poster whose husband had just passed away. Like, days before the post was made. You were openly encouraging another poster to bump a decade old thread about said poster cheating on her husband, and telling them to say “is this the same husband that just died?”. You were piled on, and rightly so. This actually supports the point I was trying to make before, so thanks for that. Completely aside: I miss that particular poster. I wonder how she is doing. ---
**Author:** ![Morgenstern](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Morgenstern](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Morgenstern)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2018, 8:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/moderation-approves-personal-harassment-by-silence/815870/108 "2018-06-11T20:38:49Z")
> [@madsircool](#): > > People who point and laugh have serious self esteem issues. And they lack empathy. It’s funny seeing hypocrites trip over their stories. I can’t help it, it’s funny. ---
**Author:** ![Whiskey\_Dickens](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/9fc348/32.png) [@Whiskey\_Dickens](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whiskey_Dickens)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2018, 8:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/moderation-approves-personal-harassment-by-silence/815870/109 "2018-06-11T20:41:44Z")
> [@expectopatronum](#): > > But you were the one being a dick in that case. Everyone else was telling you you were out of line. You did what you did of your own volition, and now you’re trying to push the blame off of yourself. Take some ownership. > > on preview: this was in response to Whiskey Dickens. Oh I own that one. Me and the other poster who were saying these things absolutely have to own it. Buck stops here. For the record, the other poster who was with me in that one, is still a very active member and managed to avoid the pile on by not standing up for himself. Classy guy all around, fits right in. Also, you’re cherry picking one incident and saying that Raffers always do the right thing about when to say party foul. But you know that with 30 seconds of Googling I could produce links about burning people’s house down, sexual assault, off board stalking, etc. ---
**Author:** ![tnetennba](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/7993a0/32.png) [@tnetennba](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tnetennba)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2018, 8:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/moderation-approves-personal-harassment-by-silence/815870/110 "2018-06-11T20:42:44Z")
Do it then. ---
**Author:** ![octopus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/octopus/32/3716_2.png) [@octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/octopus)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2018, 8:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/moderation-approves-personal-harassment-by-silence/815870/111 "2018-06-11T20:43:54Z")
It’s getting awfully arrogant in here. I’m wondering why the 'raffers know that they are unsanctionable? ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2018, 8:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/moderation-approves-personal-harassment-by-silence/815870/112 "2018-06-11T20:55:49Z")
JAQing, eh? ---
**Author:** ![Morgenstern](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Morgenstern](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Morgenstern)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2018, 9:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/moderation-approves-personal-harassment-by-silence/815870/113 "2018-06-11T21:00:04Z")
I’m getting an urge for calamari here. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2018, 9:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/moderation-approves-personal-harassment-by-silence/815870/114 "2018-06-11T21:00:13Z")
> [@Whiskey\_Dickens](#): > > Hey thanks for the invite! I tried being a “Raffer” for about 6 months, until I had the temerity to ask why it was OK to snark on certain targets but not others. > > I got piled on by people who claimed they were _taking the moral high ground_, and that I’m an idiot for not being able to tell which posters clearly deserved wishes that their house burnt down, and which were untouchable saints whose personal life was obviously off limits, you cretin how dare you. Sigh. > [@Scumpup](#): > > IOW: “But it’s cute when _I_ do it!” This is a tricky issue to discuss, since it necessarily involves off-board drama. It’s not made easier by misrepresenting what happened over on the GB, or by misrepresenting what folks say here. **Whiskey** , I’m not familiar with what you’re talking about, but if you were being terrible to someone over here, I’m glad you decided to stop; I don’t think indicting other folks for criticizing you for your target for being terrible makes a lot of sense. That’s the sort of behavior I’d rather happen more often, not less. And **Scumpup** , that’s not remotely what expecto said. But this thread is a minor example of what I’m talking about. Within two minutes of the OP’s complaints about harassment from people from GB, people are talking about it on GB; and of the first five responses to this thread, three are people from GB, and two of them respond in a pretty shitty way. Folks have mocked me over there for defending Chimera–not because they think the behavior Chimera talks about is appropriate, but because they think he’s a bad person, as though harassing bad people is okay. > [@expectopatronum](#): > > I understand where you’re coming from, but as I pointed out, we’re just as likely to give each other negative feedback when it’s warranted. I don’t think anyone on GB has told Morgenstern, or Fenris, or cochrane, that maybe they shouldn’t respond to someone complaining about harassment by posting the way they did. In terribly egregious cases like **Morgenstern’s** pit posts, sure, folks might step in gently to admonish each other; but in stuff like this current incident, the positive feedback loop continues. I don’t know that mods here can do anything about it, but it’d be lovely if the good folk at GB would rein in their own members more, work more to short-circuit the feedback loops that encourage posts like **Fenris’s** and **Morgenstern’s** (and **cochrane’s** to a lesser extent) in this thread. ---
**Author:** ![Morgenstern](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Morgenstern](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Morgenstern)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2018, 9:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/moderation-approves-personal-harassment-by-silence/815870/115 "2018-06-11T21:08:05Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > … > I don’t think anyone on GB has told Morgenstern, or Fenris, or cochrane, that maybe they shouldn’t respond to someone complaining about harassment by posting the way they did. In terribly egregious cases like **Morgenstern’s** pit posts, sure, folks might step in gently to admonish each other; but in stuff like this current incident, the positive feedback loop continues. > > I don’t know that mods here can do anything about it, but it’d be lovely if the good folk at GB would rein in their own members more, work more to short-circuit the feedback loops that encourage posts like **Fenris’s** and **Morgenstern’s** (and **cochrane’s** to a lesser extent) in this thread. You know, all you’re doing here is increasing the traffic at the GB. 116 people are lurking there right now because of all this attention you’re showering on GB. For someone who’s so offended by it, why are you working so hard at increasing their traffic? ETA, 129 - ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2018, 9:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/moderation-approves-personal-harassment-by-silence/815870/116 "2018-06-11T21:11:40Z")
> [@Morgenstern](#): > > You know, all you’re doing here is increasing the traffic at the GB. 116 people are lurking there right now because of all this attention you’re showering on GB. For someone who’s so offended by it, why are you working so hard at increasing their traffic? > > ETA, 129 - I worry that the rules prevent me from encouraging folks to go over there and read things for themselves; certainly there’s no way in which I discourage folks doing so, however, and if I thought it’d escape sanction I’d link to some specific posts. ---
**Author:** ![octopus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/octopus/32/3716_2.png) [@octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/octopus)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2018, 9:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/moderation-approves-personal-harassment-by-silence/815870/117 "2018-06-11T21:13:35Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > This is a tricky issue to discuss, since it necessarily involves off-board drama. It’s not made easier by misrepresenting what happened over on the GB, or by misrepresenting what folks say here. > > **Whiskey** , I’m not familiar with what you’re talking about, but if you were being terrible to someone over here, I’m glad you decided to stop; I don’t think indicting other folks for criticizing you for your target for being terrible makes a lot of sense. That’s the sort of behavior I’d rather happen more often, not less. > > And **Scumpup** , that’s not remotely what expecto said. > > But this thread is a minor example of what I’m talking about. Within two minutes of the OP’s complaints about harassment from people from GB, people are talking about it on GB; and of the first five responses to this thread, three are people from GB, and two of them respond in a pretty shitty way. Folks have mocked me over there for defending Chimera–not because they think the behavior Chimera talks about is appropriate, but because they think he’s a bad person, as though harassing bad people is okay. > > I don’t think anyone on GB has told Morgenstern, or Fenris, or cochrane, that maybe they shouldn’t respond to someone complaining about harassment by posting the way they did. In terribly egregious cases like **Morgenstern’s** pit posts, sure, folks might step in gently to admonish each other; but in stuff like this current incident, the positive feedback loop continues. > > I don’t know that mods here can do anything about it, but it’d be lovely if the good folk at GB would rein in their own members more, work more to short-circuit the feedback loops that encourage posts like **Fenris’s** and **Morgenstern’s** (and **cochrane’s** to a lesser extent) in this thread. Well, if a more pleasant board environment is desired for everyone and mods/admins here can’t influence (positively) stuff that happens there the solution would just be no more no holds barred forum that can be exploited. It wouldn’t prevent nonsense over there. But it would prevent baiting and goading posters here in order to generate content and traffic there. ---
**Author:** ![madsircool](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/madsircool/32/3432_2.png) [@madsircool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/madsircool)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2018, 9:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/moderation-approves-personal-harassment-by-silence/815870/118 "2018-06-11T21:14:43Z")
> [@Morgenstern](#): > > You know, all you’re doing here is increasing the traffic at the GB. 116 people are lurking there right now because of all this attention you’re showering on GB. For someone who’s so offended by it, why are you working so hard at increasing their traffic? > > ETA, 129 - How would you respond specifically to the criticism LHoD has calmly and specifically laid out? Do you think his criticism has any validity? ---
**Author:** ![Measure\_for\_Measure](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/measure_for_measure/32/557_2.png) [@Measure\_for\_Measure](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Measure_for_Measure)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2018, 9:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/moderation-approves-personal-harassment-by-silence/815870/119 "2018-06-11T21:17:08Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > In terribly egregious cases like **Morgenstern’s** pit posts, sure, folks might step in gently to admonish each other; but in stuff like this current incident, the positive feedback loop continues. The positive feedback loop is observationally equivalent on this message board to a coordinated attack. Denials that coordinated attacks occur conveniently apply overly narrow definitions. See post 62 of LHoD for a more detailed characterization of mob behavior. > [@Sunny\_Daze](#): > > This does not mean that his change of mind was not sincere. Quite a lot of people have indicated that their understanding has broadened as the discussion has continued, and I am glad to take them at their word. I have seen nothing from Chimera to indicate this isn’t the case. If I didn’t believe that people could reach a different understanding of the world around them, then there wouldn’t be much point to having discussions about diversity at all. Call me an optimist. Some of the discussion has been interesting and informative. That said, before I read the Skald thread, I disliked bullying and character assassination that had only a tenuous interest in substantiation. I still do. I had a dim view of posting behavior here which was 90%+ involved in attacks on other posters with \<10% devoted to fighting ignorance or generating benign laughter. I still do. Later threads were commendable. ---
**Author:** ![Morgenstern](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Morgenstern](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Morgenstern)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2018, 9:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/moderation-approves-personal-harassment-by-silence/815870/120 "2018-06-11T21:21:30Z")
> [@madsircool](#): > > How would you respond specifically to the criticism LHoD has calmly and specifically laid out? Do you think his criticism has any validity? LHoD is confused in that matter. The offer remains, PM me any proof of this if you choose not to post it. A request I made several hours ago and no one has yet responded to. Lack of proof may not be lack of truth, but it does bring motivation into question. ---
**Author:** ![Tee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/73ab20/32.png) [@Tee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tee)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2018, 9:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/moderation-approves-personal-harassment-by-silence/815870/121 "2018-06-11T21:21:45Z")
> [@Scumpup](#): > > LHoD outlined, in this thread, how the pus leaks over from that board to this one. The simplest, albeit probably temporary, solution would be for Giraffe, who still has considerable regard here, to shut down the “Behind Your Back” subforum at his board as a gesture of courtesy. Sure, the core contributors to that subforum can regroup elsewhere. That is up to them. Right now, there is a coterie of shit-stirrers who act with what appears to be the approval and support of a former mod at this board. …and the tacit support of this one, which is what **Chimera** said and what appears to me to be the bigger problem. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/moderation-approves-personal-harassment-by-silence/815870.md?page=5) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/moderation-approves-personal-harassment-by-silence/815870.md?page=7)