# Moderation approves personal harassment by silence **URL:** \ **Category:** About This Message Board\ **Created:** [June 11, 2018, 1:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/moderation-approves-personal-harassment-by-silence/815870 "2018-06-11T13:49:28Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 9
**Author:** ![Tee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/73ab20/32.png) [@Tee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tee)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2018, 11:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/moderation-approves-personal-harassment-by-silence/815870/162 "2018-06-11T23:18:31Z")
> [@Morgenstern](#): > > Link. > > @ Tee I can’t, it was deleted. But it was memorable. ---
**Author:** ![Joey\_P](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/919ad9/32.png) [@Joey\_P](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Joey_P)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2018, 11:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/moderation-approves-personal-harassment-by-silence/815870/163 "2018-06-11T23:19:10Z")
> [@Morgenstern](#): > > I’d love to see proof of your claim, could you provide anything at all? If you’re afraid to post it, PM it to me. I’ll accept it. > [@Morgenstern](#): > > If I did, I would not have asked. Please provide something for me, even by PM, of this conspiracy theory. Seriously, PM me if you’re not willing to post it. > [@Morgenstern](#): > > I’ve waited 30 minutes now. No one has sent me a PM, or in any other way, proven any sort of a conspiracy, agenda or organized effort to tag-team any individual here. This makes me think that such a thing does not happen. > [@Morgenstern](#): > > I’ve patiently wait about an hour and thirty minutes for you to prove your statement. That’s plenty of time for you to get your facts together and post them. You have not done so here, nor have you PM’ed me with any proof. I’m justified in classifying your claim as false. You need to offer proof if you feel the need to build on your conspiracy theory. > [@Morgenstern](#): > > But you still have to prove it’s axiomatic. I’ll wait. > [@Morgenstern](#): > > LHoD is confused in that matter. The offer remains, PM me any proof of this if you choose not to post it. A request I made several hours ago and no one has yet responded to. Lack of proof may not be lack of truth, but it does bring motivation into question. > [@Morgenstern](#): > > Honestly, I don’t expect a PM from you. Nor do I expect one from anyone else, at least, not regarding your claim. > [@Morgenstern](#): > > Show me this decades of abuse you’re claiming. PM me with proof please. > [@Morgenstern](#): > > I thought you’d have quick access to the facts you’re using. Sorry, If you get the time, could you PM me a few of them. > [@Morgenstern](#): > > Private Messages: Unread 0, Total 135. > [@Morgenstern](#): > > No, a very small number of people are assuming that the harassment starts there. No one has a shred of proof, merely opinions. Still, some 3 1/2 hours later, not one PM. > [@Morgenstern](#): > > I’ve asked, he’s out of links. > [@Morgenstern](#): > > Link. > > @ Tee Almost 10% of the posts in this thread are you asking for links. That must be exhausting for you. ---
**Author:** ![Morgenstern](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Morgenstern](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Morgenstern)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2018, 11:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/moderation-approves-personal-harassment-by-silence/815870/164 "2018-06-11T23:24:11Z")
Think how those without links feel. ---
**Author:** ![Superdude](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/superdude/32/13450_2.png) [@Superdude](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Superdude)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2018, 11:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/moderation-approves-personal-harassment-by-silence/815870/165 "2018-06-11T23:26:32Z")
> [@Morgenstern](#): > > Okay, then fucking post it. I gave them the option. They made the claim, I called cite, they ran. Whole story. Just for the record, when someone says they don’t want to play your game, doubling down and demanding that they do it anyway isn’t to portray you very well. ---
**Author:** ![cochrane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cochrane/32/10441_2.png) [@cochrane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cochrane)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2018, 11:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/moderation-approves-personal-harassment-by-silence/815870/166 "2018-06-11T23:27:16Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > I don’t know that mods here can do anything about it, but it’d be lovely if the good folk at GB would rein in their own members more, work more to short-circuit the feedback loops that encourage posts like **Fenris’s** and **Morgenstern’s** (and **cochrane’s** to a lesser extent) in this thread. Speaking only for myself, **Chimera’s** OP was very vague and general about harassment in the Pit. He don’t provide any details. All I did was point out that the rules in the Pit only prohibit a few particular insults. He’s been on the boards and in the Pit long enough to know what occurs there. As for being insulted about his divorce or any mental issues, I agree it’s a dick move and I am completely innocent of any harassment of **Chimera** anywhere, either here or on the GB, and I resent any mention of my name in connection with any of that particular harassment he received. ---
**Author:** ![Morgenstern](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Morgenstern](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Morgenstern)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2018, 11:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/moderation-approves-personal-harassment-by-silence/815870/167 "2018-06-11T23:32:33Z")
> [@Superdude](#): > > Just for the record, when someone says they don’t want to play your game, doubling down and demanding that they do it anyway isn’t to portray you very well. Well perhaps they shouldn’t make claims if they aren’t willing to provide cites. It’s pretty much the way the board works. ---
**Author:** ![Tee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/73ab20/32.png) [@Tee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tee)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2018, 11:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/moderation-approves-personal-harassment-by-silence/815870/168 "2018-06-11T23:32:38Z")
My goof, the link was at the top of the one **cochrane** supplied on page one. [https://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=842717](https://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=842717) ---
**Author:** ![cochrane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cochrane/32/10441_2.png) [@cochrane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cochrane)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2018, 11:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/moderation-approves-personal-harassment-by-silence/815870/169 "2018-06-11T23:35:11Z")
> [@splatterpunk](#): > > **Chimera** ’s issue is with one poster and one poster only, conducting an “[e]xtended campaign of personal harassment across the Pit and AMTB.” > > That is the topic of this thread. Or at least it was, until certain people hijacked it into an anti-GB thread. Damm straight. My name has been dragged through the mud in this thread when I have not engaged in any harassment of **Chimera** whatsoever. ---
**Author:** ![Scumpup](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ce73a5/32.png) [@Scumpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scumpup)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2018, 11:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/moderation-approves-personal-harassment-by-silence/815870/170 "2018-06-11T23:39:19Z")
> [@Giraffe](#): > > I have zero interest in being a middle school teacher to posters on either board. If you come to my board and act like a tool, I’ll either make fun of you or ban/Box you, depending on how big of a tool you are. If you come over to this board and act like a tool, I’m not going to do anything at all, regardless of whether you acted like a tool on my board or not. It’s not my job. (OK, I may make fun of you again, but that’s off the clock.) The mods here have laid out the rules of acceptable behavior and they don’t include researching and cross-checking things someone may have done or said elsewhere. > > I’m sorry if another site on the Internet offends you. That’s probably not going to change anytime soon, you should probably get used to it. What the tools do at your board, which you really should consider renaming “The Tool Box,” isn’t the issue. To continue the Middle School example, nobody gives a shit what happens in the “cool teacher’s” room until it starts causing problems elsewhere. Usually, the teachers and kids who have to deal with these problems start thinking of the “cool teacher” as just another, slightly bigger, tool. That doesn’t usually bother the bigger tool, though. He has all the little tools to reassure him of what an awesomely cool guy he is. ---
**Author:** ![Morgenstern](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Morgenstern](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Morgenstern)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2018, 11:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/moderation-approves-personal-harassment-by-silence/815870/171 "2018-06-11T23:42:15Z")
> [@Tee](#): > > My goof, the link was at the top of the one **cochrane** supplied on page one. > > [https://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=842717](https://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=842717) That’s far from even relevant. I would like a cite re: an organized, even unorganized, attempt, agenda or plan to pile on any poster here. You’re never going to find it, yet it’s been claimed here by the same people claiming it in your thread. ---
**Author:** ![CCitizen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/4af34b/32.png) [@CCitizen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CCitizen)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2018, 11:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/moderation-approves-personal-harassment-by-silence/815870/172 "2018-06-11T23:51:24Z")
> [@CCitizen](#): > > Especially given the fact that many people call Social Media their second home. > [@DrDeth](#): > > Good point. Thank you. Indeed, most avid posters are Homo Interneticus humans. I am also a Homo Interneticus – I mostly read online arguments. Among Homo Sapiens, personally abusive language is mostly used by Junior High students. ---
**Author:** ![Tee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/73ab20/32.png) [@Tee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tee)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2018, 11:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/moderation-approves-personal-harassment-by-silence/815870/173 "2018-06-11T23:55:00Z")
> [@Morgenstern](#): > > That’s far from even relevant. I would like a cite re: an organized, even unorganized, attempt, agenda or plan to pile on any poster here. You’re never going to find it, yet it’s been claimed here by the same people claiming it in your thread. We all want things. I’m pretty sure we mostly agree on where the problem is, the question is what to do about it. If anything. ---
**Author:** ![madsircool](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/madsircool/32/3432_2.png) [@madsircool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/madsircool)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2018, 11:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/moderation-approves-personal-harassment-by-silence/815870/174 "2018-06-11T23:55:06Z")
> [@Morgenstern](#): > > That’s far from even relevant. I would like a cite re: an organized, even unorganized, attempt, agenda or plan to pile on any poster here. You’re never going to find it, yet it’s been claimed here by the same people claiming it in your thread. Are you going to apologize to Chimera for your insensitive cruel posts about him? ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2018, 12:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/moderation-approves-personal-harassment-by-silence/815870/175 "2018-06-12T00:08:17Z")
[Moderating] **Morgenstern** , to the extent that there’s a point to be made with your PM requests, you have made it sufficiently. Knock it off, already. [/Moderating] > [@Sunny\_Daze](#): > > Mods - can we have a ruling on whether mocking someone’s mental health issues is within the rules? Please see post 50, and 52. There are currently only three classes of insults that are disallowed in the Pit: hate speech, threats of violence, and Ed’s list of banned words. Insulting someone over a mental - or physical, for that matter - disability is not against any current rule in the Pit. We are currently discussing the issue in the mod loop, though. I have some problems with trying to moderate these sorts of insults - mostly, I think it introduces an enormous grey area on what is and is not acceptable as an insult. There’s too many subjective criteria in the equation: which insults are about an actual disability versus a generic insult? What sort of board behavior is off-limits for Pitting because it’s a function of mental illness as opposed to social dysfunction? How do you handle people who use their diagnosis as an excuse to be shitty people? Does the poster making the insult even know the other poster’s backstory to know why the insult was so objectionable? And is that poster required to believe the other person’s claims about their mental illness? The current limitations on what you can say in the Pit tend to be pretty bright-line: there’s not really any circumstances where it’s acceptable to call someone the n-word, for example, so the hate speech rules don’t require a ton of context parsing to enforce. On the other hand, there’s a lot of times its entirely legit to call someone stupid or crazy, and I’m not thrilled at the prospect of having to determine if someone’s so stupid or crazy that other posters are not allowed to call them out on it. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2018, 12:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/moderation-approves-personal-harassment-by-silence/815870/176 "2018-06-12T00:09:38Z")
> [@Sunny\_Daze](#): > > Can we split this up? Good discussion happens in the Pit. The parts we as board should focus on are the harassment and the truly awful bits. Yeah, I think there are a variety of situations here that are getting conflated. 1. Morgenstern’s behavior toward Chimera in various places, which has gone un-modded. Especially his behavior concerning abusive relationships and mental illness. 2. A general pattern of shit starting on GB and coming over here, or shit amplifying on GB and coming over here. 3. General complaints about the Pit. IMO the first one is absolutely germane to this thread. It didn’t even occur to me that the second one wasn’t what the OP was talking about–and I still suspect that general pattern is implicated and is therefore not a hijack. The third one? **Octopus** , that sounds to me like a good separate thread. As for the first one, [there are other examples](https://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=21004356&postcount=8087) that don’t involve **Chimera**. I bring this up not so much to poke at **Morgenstern** as to look at the parameters of what’s appropriate Pit behavior. I didn’t report this post either, again not thinking it broke rules, but perhaps it oughtta. As for the second one, I disagree with **Scumpup** that Giraffe has any sort of obligation to shut down anything on his board. Rather, I think this is the sort of thing best handled by folk on the GB. As expecto says, there’s some level of self-policing going on over there. I think she and others might kick that shit up a notch, becoming aware of the dynamic wherein someone links to a post here, and then a bunch of people in full snark-mode come over here and dogpile. It may not be an intentional strategy, but the effect is not great for this board. As for the third one, I’ll save my thoughts for whatever new thread gets opened on the subject :). ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2018, 12:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/moderation-approves-personal-harassment-by-silence/815870/177 "2018-06-12T00:15:49Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > On the other hand, there’s a lot of times its entirely legit to call someone stupid or crazy, and I’m not thrilled at the prospect of having to determine if someone’s so stupid or crazy that other posters are not allowed to call them out on it. I totally get this. I certainly don’t want to lose the ability to tell someone that they’re whackaloon, and indeed I’m getting ready to go do that right now as soon as I finish this post. Where there’s a problem with this, I think, is where someone dredges up some irrelevant detail from someone’s life for the sheer purpose of hurting them. Let’s say I’ve talked here about my own struggles with mental illness, and then I go to the pit and say, “You know what we need to do in this country? We need to kill all the bankers!” If someone wants to call me bonkers, that’s great. But what if I go to the Pit and say, “Hey, Bob, you’re a dumbass,” and Bob comes back with, “Oh, I see you got out early from the institution, maybe if you took your meds like you’re supposed to you wouldn’t be having all these suicidal thoughts, would you?” That’s not okay. What’s more, the second example is gonna hurt the board: if folks know that their traumas can be weaponized against them, folks are going to be less open about their lives, and that’s gonna hurt the community. A general rule–don’t bring up someone’s personal trauma from other threads as a weapon against them in the Pit–might be easier to enforce than something forbidding specific categories of insults. Sure, folks will try to skirt the rules. I trust you to kick their asses. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2018, 12:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/moderation-approves-personal-harassment-by-silence/815870/178 "2018-06-12T00:20:44Z")
> [@cochrane](#): > > Damm straight. My name has been dragged through the mud in this thread when I have not engaged in any harassment of **Chimera** whatsoever. To be clear: it appeared to me that you followed links from GB over here and posted in response to this thread because of the link. This is the sort of unintentional dogpiling that can result. I’m not saying you did it deliberately, and I separated you from Fenris and morgenstern for a reason. But it’d be lovely if GB folk can be aware of how this happens, and how it’s not a great thing. ---
**Author:** ![tnetennba](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/7993a0/32.png) [@tnetennba](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tnetennba)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2018, 12:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/moderation-approves-personal-harassment-by-silence/815870/179 "2018-06-12T00:28:31Z")
I agree with that. “Coordinated campaign of harassment” no. “Unintentional dogpiling,” sure. ---
**Author:** ![cochrane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cochrane/32/10441_2.png) [@cochrane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cochrane)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2018, 12:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/moderation-approves-personal-harassment-by-silence/815870/180 "2018-06-12T00:41:31Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > To be clear: it appeared to me that you followed links from GB over here and posted in response to this thread because of the link. This is the sort of unintentional dogpiling that can result. I’m not saying you did it deliberately, and I separated you from Fenris and morgenstern for a reason. But it’d be lovely if GB folk can be aware of how this happens, and how it’s not a great thing. No, I saw this thread before I visited the Giraffe Board. I consider this my first board and go to GB after I read all the posts here. That’s why I objected to your using my name. And to repeat myself: I have never participated in any harassment of **Chimera** , either in a coordinated or an uncoordinated manner. ---
**Author:** ![cochrane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cochrane/32/10441_2.png) [@cochrane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cochrane)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2018, 12:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/moderation-approves-personal-harassment-by-silence/815870/181 "2018-06-12T00:54:02Z")
And hey, I wasn’t being insulting with this post: > [@cochrane](#): > > I think the only insults that are off limits in the Pit are saying “Fuck you,” and calling someone a cunt or a cocksucker. So unless someone is saying those things to you, you don’t have a leg to stand on. No mention of flouncing, and I never suggested he should be banned or anything. His OP was vague and didn’t have any details, so I wondered why the hell he was complaining about being insulted in the Pit. He participates there, even if it’s mostly in the workplace rants and mini rants threads. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/moderation-approves-personal-harassment-by-silence/815870.md?page=8) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/moderation-approves-personal-harassment-by-silence/815870.md?page=10)