# Moderators are clearly using thier power as mods to shut down debates that they are losing. **URL:** \ **Category:** About This Message Board\ **Created:** [November 7, 2015, 9:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/moderators-are-clearly-using-thier-power-as-mods-to-shut-down-debates-that-they-are-losing/736964 "2015-11-07T21:34:48Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 8\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![Hank\_Beecher](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hank_beecher/32/7275_2.png) [@Hank\_Beecher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hank_Beecher)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2015, 8:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/moderators-are-clearly-using-thier-power-as-mods-to-shut-down-debates-that-they-are-losing/736964/101 "2015-11-14T20:49:09Z")
> [@tomndebb](#): > > Given even that my reference to Wahhabism was an interpretation of that thread’s OP, nothing I did actually shut down genuie discussion of the OP. > > **Robert123** persistently demanded that other posters “prove” that his irrelevant comments about Mohammed were wrong. I did not argue that his comments about Mohammed were wrong; those comments were irrelevant to the purpose of the thread. > Posting attacks on the person of Mohammed is an invitation to other posters to post replies defending Mohammed. That does not address the question of what steps our society should take to reduce the hatred and violence. > I also told other posters to avoid responding to the invitation to a hijack; I did not permit challenges to **Robert123** ’s hijack while silencing him. > Having pointed out that **Robert123** ’s first response to the thread provided no workable solution–a point to which neither he nor you ever provided a response–I limited my participation to noting that he was running off the rails until he insisted on furthering his hijack. I was not arguing against his position, having replied to its only expression without receiving an actual response to my comment. So the claim that I “_shut down a discussion that was calling out your statements that were in error_” is silly and without foundation. > My only effort as a Mod was to prevent the thread from being hijacked while repeatedly offering him, (and you), the option to go open a new thread to pursue the point of his hijack. > **Jonathan Chance** did not participate in the thread, at all, stepping in as a Mod only when **Robert123** flouted my instructions to address the topic of the OP. > The thread was not closed to silence any argument; you had already sidelined the thread by your off-track comments, so **Jonathan Chance** shut it down for a lack of civility. A claim that he closed the thread to defend an argument in which he was not engaged is silly. > You then opened threads in ATMB and The BBQ Pit to complain. The ATMB thread was closed for a general lack of civility. The Pit thread was closed for being in the wrong forum. > > The thread was begun with a premise. Restating one’s personal beliefs regarding the premise is pointless. Demanding that other posters interrupt the thread to argue the premise is a hijack. > Premise: Islam is violent and evil. > Question: How do we address that? > Hijack: Prove that Mohammed was not violent and evil.At no time did **Robert123** make any effort to explain how answering his demand for a defense of Mohammed would address the actual OP of that thread. Your knee-jerk reaction to notes telling everyone to stick to the topic did nothing to promote the discussion, either. > > Well, since you have provided no evidence of your claim, pointing only to the hijack that **Robert123** Tom your post [389](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=18835772&postcount=389) in which you intervened was preceded by **at least one hundred posts** that were directly on topic, **none of which were by robert123**. This was a lively debate of one of the great issues of our time, which you intervened upon to steer the discussion away from any mention of fact or opinion critical of Islam. Your assertion is pure fiction. > [@](#): > > attempted and your defense of the hijack Again, it is not a hijack to talk and debate about a problem when debating solutions to the problem. > [@](#): > > we can pretty well ignore your complaint as unfounded. There have been dozens of threads discussing Islam on this board. And there are dozens of threads on Stormfront about the Holocaust. Your point? > [@](#): > > There was actually a separate thread on the topic that was still open, (and had been open for two months and 1450 posts), when the “What do we do?” thread was closed, until you attempted to hijack that with one more rant about Moderation. > In Great Debates, alone, there are more than 75 such threads–the only two that have been closed being the ones in which you attempted to hijack the threads into discussions of moderating. [Wrong.](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=687508) All of these discussions critical of Islam were terminated, while countless other threads were allowed to continue. Many of these actually \*do \*go off topic, unlike the one you intervened upon. > [@](#): > > There does not appear to be any effort to close discussions regarding Islam, only efforts to keep threads on track until you hijack them with irrelevant complaints. First of all, a simple glance at the discussions that were going on in the closed threads on the front page of Great Debates shows this assertion to be preposterous: the three debates that contained many comments critical of Islam, which were closed, were ongoing, lively, and on topic. The other closed threads (and also many that were left open) mostly were not. Secondly your complaint about my complaint on moderation might have some teeth if the thread started in this forum, the one set aside for these sorts of complaints, was not also closed. ---
**Author:** ![Jonathan\_Chance](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jonathan_chance/32/701_2.png) [@Jonathan\_Chance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jonathan_Chance)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2015, 9:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/moderators-are-clearly-using-thier-power-as-mods-to-shut-down-debates-that-they-are-losing/736964/102 "2015-11-14T21:07:02Z")
Well, I closed the ATMB thread. I did so because in my first post I asked that it remain civil and that it not become a rehash of the closed GD thread. The first post after that skirted both lines and I closed it. It was closed because it didn’t look like it would accomplish anything. Case in point, this very thread has been open for a week or so and not closed despite both Tom and I participating in it. If we’re abusing our power we’re going about it in a funny way. ---
**Author:** ![Smeghead](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f1d935/32.png) [@Smeghead](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smeghead)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2015, 9:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/moderators-are-clearly-using-thier-power-as-mods-to-shut-down-debates-that-they-are-losing/736964/103 "2015-11-14T21:27:33Z")
Your failure to abuse power in open defiance of predictions of power abuse is an abuse of your power and a blatant attempt to discredit the argument that mods abuse power. Jerk. ---
**Author:** ![Hank\_Beecher](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hank_beecher/32/7275_2.png) [@Hank\_Beecher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hank_Beecher)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2015, 10:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/moderators-are-clearly-using-thier-power-as-mods-to-shut-down-debates-that-they-are-losing/736964/104 "2015-11-14T22:08:29Z")
> [@Jonathan\_Chance](#): > > Well, I closed the ATMB thread. > > I did so because in my first post I asked that it remain civil and that it not become a rehash of the closed GD thread. The first post after that skirted both lines and I closed it. > > It was closed because it didn’t look like it would accomplish anything. > > Case in point, this very thread has been open for a week or so… A week or so that the discussions containing many factual, legitimate, and simultaneously offensive-to-many criticisms of Islam would have continued, had they not been terminated. Instead we get to (eventually) talk about the impediments to talking about them on this website. ---
**Author:** ![Idle\_Thoughts](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/838e76/32.png) [@Idle\_Thoughts](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Idle_Thoughts)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2015, 12:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/moderators-are-clearly-using-thier-power-as-mods-to-shut-down-debates-that-they-are-losing/736964/105 "2015-11-15T00:17:09Z")
> [@Hank\_Beecher](#): > > A week or so that the discussions containing many factual, legitimate, and simultaneously offensive-to-many criticisms of Islam would have continued, had they not been terminated. Instead we get to (eventually) talk about the impediments to talking about them on this website. What do you hope to accomplish here with continuing this thread? You seemed to start it because you claimed the mods were biased and closing topics about Islam, but that’s been proved wrong a few times to you. …so…what outcome are you hoping for? ---
**Author:** ![Hank\_Beecher](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hank_beecher/32/7275_2.png) [@Hank\_Beecher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hank_Beecher)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2015, 12:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/moderators-are-clearly-using-thier-power-as-mods-to-shut-down-debates-that-they-are-losing/736964/106 "2015-11-15T00:58:01Z")
> [@Idle\_Thoughts](#): > > What do you hope to accomplish here with continuing this thread? Having a discussion about this message board. > [@](#): > > You seemed to start it because you claimed the mods were biased and closing topics about Islam, but that’s been proved wrong a few times to you. I claimed that mods were using their power to shut down debate, which is whats been proven. Shutting down debate includes barging into the middle of an on topic, controversial debate, and making commandments as a moderator, even when the forum rules are being followed. > [@](#): > > …so…what outcome are you hoping for? Oh idk, tomndebb not moderating? That may be an unrealistic solstice gift though. So how about doing a better job? ---
**Author:** ![Idle\_Thoughts](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/838e76/32.png) [@Idle\_Thoughts](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Idle_Thoughts)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2015, 1:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/moderators-are-clearly-using-thier-power-as-mods-to-shut-down-debates-that-they-are-losing/736964/107 "2015-11-15T01:13:12Z")
> [@Hank\_Beecher](#): > > I claimed that mods were using their power to shut down debate, which is whats been proven. Shutting down debate includes barging into the middle of an on topic, controversial debate, and making commandments as a moderator, even when the forum rules are being followed. No, it hasn’t been proven, because it’s been shown to you other Great Debate topics about Islam are currently going on and not closed (see the link below, although this has already been pointed out to you). So, since that’s resolved, I’m closing this thread. And I’m someone who am not biased in any way, shape or form, toward any religion, group, or politics since I don’t even know or understand what Islam is about and I don’t care about politics, government, or religion…nor have I ever been or ever will be involved in debate about it, lest you think this is just another mod against you and trying to stifle discussion. You’ve been answered many times and this thread doesn’t seem to serve any other purpose other than for you to argue against something that’s untrue. If you wish to talk about Islam or anything to do with it, please take it to Great Debates and–if it is and stays within the rules–[much like this thread is](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=771479), it should not be closed. ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2015, 1:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/moderators-are-clearly-using-thier-power-as-mods-to-shut-down-debates-that-they-are-losing/736964/108 "2015-11-15T01:21:37Z")
> [@Hank\_Beecher](#): > > Tom your post [389](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=18835772&postcount=389) in which you intervened was preceded by **at least one hundred posts** that were directly on topic, **none of which were by robert123**. This was a lively debate of one of the great issues of our time, which you intervened upon to steer the discussion away from any mention of fact or opinion critical of Islam. Your assertion is pure fiction. What are you claiming is supposed to be fiction? I never said that there was not a debate going. I only said that my participation was limited and that **Robert123** ’s posts, after his first one, were attempts at hijacks. Those statements are true. I did nothing to steer the thread away from the question of the OP. If you are one of those posters who believe that any mention of any topic is an excuse to post rants only vaguely related to the OP, you are wrong. Threads do wander and I have long noted and tolerated organic hijacks of threads. I see no point in letting a thread be derailed when the topic of the OP is still being discussed. In this case, **Robert123** ’s posts were efforts at deliberate hijacks that led away from the OP. There was no purpose in permitting one poster to derail a thread when the topic had not run its course and there was still an open thread in which he could make the same arguments that were not off-topic hijacks. He was told several times that he could take up his hijack in the open thread or start a new thread. He chose to ignore my instructions and cry crocodile tears about “abuse.” No poster or post that addressed the issue “What should we do about the hatred or violence related to Islam?” was Mod noted. Your claim of “steering” is the fictional one. > [@Hank\_Beecher](#): > > Again, it is not a hijack to talk and debate about a problem when debating solutions to the problem. It is a hijack to demand that other posters “prove” a statement to be untrue when its truth has been accepted as the premise of the thread. It invites off-topic responses to debate the point that is given. > [@Hank\_Beecher](#): > > > [@tomndebb](#): > > > > In Great Debates, alone, there are more than 75 such threads–the only two that have been closed being the ones in which you attempted to hijack the threads into discussions of moderating. > > [Wrong.](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=687508) All of these discussions critical of Islam were terminated, while countless other threads were allowed to continue. Many of these actually \*do \*go off topic, unlike the one you intervened upon. “All of these threads”? You are the one who is blowing smoke. Of threads in GD with “Islam” in the title, only the two I noted have been closed; over 75 others are still open, today. Your attempt to refute that by pointing to one thread hardly supports your false claim that “all” have been closed. And your example thread was allowed to run its course and finish without closure two and a half years ago. **Jonathan Chance** only closed it, now, because you deliberately tried to provoke him by reviving it in a way that violated his instructions to you. It was not closed because of its topic. > [@Hank\_Beecher](#): > > Secondly your complaint about my complaint on moderation might have some teeth if the thread started in this forum, the one set aside for these sorts of complaints, was not also closed. Whatever the reason for its closure, I had nothing to do with it. I note that more than one of those threads were closed by Mods who have not been part of the discussions of Islam and I have closed none of them. You are simply flailing around looking for accusations to hurl at me that are disconnected from reality. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/moderators-are-clearly-using-thier-power-as-mods-to-shut-down-debates-that-they-are-losing/736964.md?page=5)