# Modern day foo fighters and St. Elmos fire **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [May 13, 2004, 11:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/modern-day-foo-fighters-and-st-elmos-fire/244936 "2004-05-13T11:30:53Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 10\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Musicat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/musicat/32/20189_2.png) [@Musicat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Musicat)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2004, 9:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/modern-day-foo-fighters-and-st-elmos-fire/244936/21 "2004-05-13T21:00:31Z")
> [@Mangetout](#): > > Heh > It doesn’t take an ‘expert’ to make a pronouncement like that; there were some objects, they appeared to be flying and they couldn’t be identified; they are UFOs. I would take slight issue with even that. If the sample image on the site is representative, the news article should have said, “Mexican air force pilots filmed 11 bright _lights_ in the skies…” Making the jump from fuzzy infrared bright spots to actual, physical objects is adding interpretation to the observation. And the fact that they appeared “to accelerate rapidly and change course suddenly…” is a big hint that they are probably lights or reflections, not objects. Objects, especially large ones, have this little problem with inertia; light does not. ---
**Author:** ![BMalion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/e274bd/32.png) [@BMalion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BMalion)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2004, 9:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/modern-day-foo-fighters-and-st-elmos-fire/244936/22 "2004-05-13T21:05:12Z")
[weekly world news] Alfred von Schlieffen had secret UFO weapons! [/weekly world news] ---
**Author:** ![Ike\_Witt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ike_witt/32/283_2.png) [@Ike\_Witt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ike_Witt)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2004, 9:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/modern-day-foo-fighters-and-st-elmos-fire/244936/23 "2004-05-13T21:25:38Z")
> [@+MDI](#): > > [http://keyholepublishing.com/What\_Are\_The\_Triangles.htm](http://keyholepublishing.com/What_Are_The_Triangles.htm) Now, I am out of the loop as far as the whole UFO thing goes, but doesn’t Richard Dolan (writer of that story) = Nut case? ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2004, 9:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/modern-day-foo-fighters-and-st-elmos-fire/244936/24 "2004-05-13T21:29:06Z")
> [@Musicat](#): > > I would take slight issue with even that. Are you sugesting something has to be an object to be a UFO? Webster says UFO n : an (apparently) flying object whose nature is unknown I’ve used that definition. ---
**Author:** ![duffer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/duffer/32/1026_2.png) [@duffer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/duffer)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2004, 9:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/modern-day-foo-fighters-and-st-elmos-fire/244936/25 "2004-05-13T21:37:39Z")
> [@RandomLetters](#): > > Just a couple days ago some UFO’s were reported flying around some Mexican Air Force planes. [UFOs Filmed over Mexico.](http://www.sltrib.com/2004/May/05132004/nation_w/166146.asp) Does anyone know if there’s video of this? I saw it on the news and I immediately thought they were out of focus cars. It looks like it was 2 headlights with 2 smaller lights right below each, like parking lights. Anyone else see that? ---
**Author:** ![Musicat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/musicat/32/20189_2.png) [@Musicat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Musicat)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2004, 10:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/modern-day-foo-fighters-and-st-elmos-fire/244936/26 "2004-05-13T22:00:26Z")
> [@carnivorousplant](#): > > Are you sugesting something has to be an object to be a UFO? No, I’m not really arguing semantics. The term UFO has come to mean anything seen in the sky that can’t be explained at first blush. But the article said the film captured objects. That remains to be proven. The film – at least the sample on the news page – shows spots of light. Is this nitpicking? I don’t think so. Spots of light can move as observed, solid objects have a much harder time. Spots of light could be reflections from numerous sources including the plane or camera itself; flying objects that defy gravity require a much more complex explanation (aliens, secret spy craft, etc.). If you are trying to analyze what’s going on, it’s important to stick to the facts. But spots of reflected light are not news. UFOs, especially ones piloted by LGMs, are, which probably explains the reporting. ---
**Author:** ![Capt.Ridley\_s\_Shooting\_Party](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/cc9497/32.png) [@Capt.Ridley\_s\_Shooting\_Party](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Capt.Ridley_s_Shooting_Party)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2004, 10:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/modern-day-foo-fighters-and-st-elmos-fire/244936/27 "2004-05-13T22:47:37Z")
> [@adam yax](#): > > Now, I am out of the loop as far as the whole UFO thing goes, but doesn’t Richard Dolan (writer of that story) = Nut case? Ain’t got a clue. It’s not that far out what he’s saying anyway: US government developing triangle shaped spy splanes in secret. Just look at some of the wacky shapes that have been appearing from the Skunkworks. ---
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2004, 11:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/modern-day-foo-fighters-and-st-elmos-fire/244936/28 "2004-05-13T23:49:08Z")
> [@Musicat](#): > > I would take slight issue with even that. If the sample image on the site is representative, the news article should have said, “Mexican air force pilots filmed 11 bright _lights_ in the skies…” Making the jump from fuzzy infrared bright spots to actual, physical objects is adding interpretation to the observation. > > And the fact that they appeared “to accelerate rapidly and change course suddenly…” is a big hint that they are probably lights or reflections, not objects. Objects, especially large ones, have this little problem with inertia; light does not. Picky Picky Picky 😉 I suppose we could also say that it wasn’t established that they were _flying_, as they could have been _levitating_ or something else that isn’t exactly the same as flying. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2004, 12:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/modern-day-foo-fighters-and-st-elmos-fire/244936/29 "2004-05-14T00:41:51Z")
> [@Musicat](#): > > But spots of reflected light are not news. UFOs, especially ones piloted by LGMs, are, which probably explains the reporting. Then I take issue with the plural of LGM. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Valgard](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/7feea3/32.png) [@Valgard](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Valgard)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2004, 6:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/modern-day-foo-fighters-and-st-elmos-fire/244936/30 "2004-05-14T06:54:27Z")
> [@+MDI](#): > > Sorry, it was an honest mistake. I don’t think I’ve mispelled your name before. > > From [http://ufos.about.com/library/weekly/aa031698.htm](http://ufos.about.com/library/weekly/aa031698.htm) > > I don’t think a Mirage can do those things. 46G is about 460m/s^2, which would mean going from 280kph to 1800kph in just about 0.9 seconds, not “a few seconds”. If you do it in 3 seconds you’re pulling about 14G - still impressive and not something that the average person can sustain but if we’re going to talk about aliens and spaceships it’d be good to get our math right. As far as radar, I wasn’t aware that radar could really tell you much about the shape of an object unless it was pretty big - can a military radar set actually say “That object is a triangle” and “That object is a rectangle”? I can certainly think of things that give radar returns and that can change size & shape (thunderstorms, flocks of birds), but reading that line makes me think you’ve got a radar signal bouncing back with funny results which doesn’t necessarily mean that you can take said results literally. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/modern-day-foo-fighters-and-st-elmos-fire/244936.md?page=1)